Kenny Departs

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby parchpea » Mon May 07, 2012 11:46 am

Boocity » Mon May 07, 2012 10:05 am wrote:I was really expecting Kenny to do last summer what he did at the beginning of the 1987-88 season, then he brount in Barnes, Beardsley and Houghton to add to Aldridge and we were world beaters, I know he was starting with a better squad then but I did believe we would make greater strides than we have done this season.


You are talking about an era where we could cherry pick any player and they all wanted to be at Liverpool.

We also already had a terrific team and these signings were merely making us even more invincible.

Dalglish also had a backroom staff without equal to assist him.

The situation we face now is very different and Fenway must decide if this man has the
tools to solve our problems or if someone else better placed to get the job done.

To me the Dalglish factor should play no part in the decision, and he should only remain
in the post if Fenway are absolutely certain there is no one attainable who they feel
will be better at the job than him.

If there is then he goes simple as that, and if not he stays and we crack on and keep
going.
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Postby stmichael » Mon May 07, 2012 11:57 am

7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.


they aren't going to finish in the top 4.

i just heard one muppet say we as liverpool fans should be "envious" of what newcastle have done this season. they've done fantastically well but i wanna see what they do next season now to back it up. they've had one great season, everton did the same. villa did the same.
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Postby mart » Mon May 07, 2012 12:05 pm

stmichael » Mon May 07, 2012 10:57 am wrote:
7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.


they aren't going to finish in the top 4.

i just heard one muppet say we as liverpool fans should be "envious" of what newcastle have done this season. they've done fantastically well but i wanna see what they do next season now to back it up. they've had one great season, everton did the same. villa did the same.


Not that i really care about newcastle but if they manage to hold on to their current players I expect they will finish above us next season too. The problem for overachieving midtable clubs is that they always struggle to hold on to their best players after a good season.
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Postby kazza » Mon May 07, 2012 12:12 pm

stmichael » Mon May 07, 2012 10:57 am wrote:
7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.


they aren't going to finish in the top 4.

i just heard one muppet say we as liverpool fans should be "envious" of what newcastle have done this season. they've done fantastically well but i wanna see what they do next season now to back it up. they've had one great season, everton did the same. villa did the same.

Agreed we do not need CL football at any cost but rather need to build for the future so we can take CL for granted like not so long ago. I would accept failure to get a CL place as long as we can see improvement and a plan that makes sense. When Man City were waisting 100 million you still knew it was a matter of time. For us I am not so sure. Gerrard is Key as to what to do with him.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 pm

stmichael » Mon May 07, 2012 10:57 am wrote:
7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am wrote:
Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.


they aren't going to finish in the top 4.

i just heard one muppet say we as liverpool fans should be "envious" of what newcastle have done this season. they've done fantastically well but i wanna see what they do next season now to back it up. they've had one great season, everton did the same. villa did the same.


newcastle have done well, but you dont actually have to be a unbelievable team to do well in the league, if you just follow the form guide and win the games you are expected to you will do well.
thats the frustrating thing, in our case the vast majority of league games we play are against sides that on paper we should beat, we dont play barcelona or real madrid every week, hell we dont even play man united or city every week, 80% of our fixtures are against the fulhams, QPR`s and west brom`s etc.
whenever we play one of those sides like a wigan, bolton or swansea we go into those games with all the advantages, we hold all the trump cards, the aces are in our hand, we go into those games with forwards who near enough single handedly won the copa america and midfielders like gerrard who have been one of the best players in the world for a decade. we are the team packed full of expensive internationals and household names not them. in a lot of cases just 1 of our players cost more than their entire team. even during the last 2-3 years when our squad is generally regarded to be as weak as it has been for a while in 80% of the games we play in the premier league we still start those games as favourites.
if you take out the 10 games we play home and away against united, city, arsenal, chelsea and spurs you are left with 28 games, if we won those 28 games against teams we should beat on paper thats 84 points. you can afford to lose home and away to all the big teams and still theoretically get CL football just as long as you beat the teams you are superior to on paper.
that`s why the likes of newcastle have done well, they have punched their weight and thats why we have done so badly, we have massively, massively underperformed against teams we held all the advantages against.
we dont have to be amazing, just punching our weight and following form lines would get us there or thereabouts but we cant even manage that!
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Postby Thommo's perm » Mon May 07, 2012 2:29 pm

Its a great to look back at the begining of the season and see the excitement and fantastic expectations we had and how it has actually ended up. The Newcastle example is a red herring as the only expectation they had after losing their manager and their "best" players was to stay up. They have done brilliantly and have been so fortunate to get Cisse who is scoring for fun.
We on the other hand have seen a season I have never witnessed before and no doubt will never see again. If I would have said that we would only win 5 games at home, batter most teams and beat everton home, away and wembley you might have said I was having a laugh. If I said we would hit the woodwork over 30 times, have arguably our best player banned for 9 games on the trot and would be in 2 cup finals you might have said I was off my head. If I also said we would beat man u and everton to get to the fa cup final and knock chelsea and man city out of the carling cup on our way to winning it you might have said I was bonkers. We have had the most exhilirating and frustrating season I have had both the pleasure and displeasure to observe where we have been sublime and sh'ite in almost the same measure. I have seen us tw@t the big boys and get tw@tted by the bottom feeders. We have flattered to deceive and been outstanding on this current campaign and I believe that if we are to progress next season then KK, his coaching staff and the players need to have a long hard look at themselves and be brutally honest about where the fu'ck ups have occurred. Henderson and Downing have been the biggest let down for me with neither showing the promise that we were told would materialise. They both have had too much of our time and patience only to be damp squibs with none of the real effect that we expected when they came. Carroll has been disappointing, but for me that was understandable due to the price tag, and it is only since the geordies ridiculed him that he has finally committed himself to being a Liverpool player. We are now seeing the results of this in his performances and the future looks bright for him.
KK has let himself and us down this season with his team selections, tactics and behaviour off the pitch. He took the biggest gamble of his current tenure on saturday by not playing Carroll from the start and it blew up in his face. As soon as I saw the team sheet I knew we were going to struggle, especially with Spearing and Henderson in the middle. The saying "Men against boys" comes to mind. That being said, Enrique, Bellamy and in particular Suarez all had the worst game in a red shirt I have seen since they came here. The last half an hour was how we should have played from the first whistle and KK should hang his head in shame that we didnt.
I believe that KK will stay on for next season but his management will be reviewed at christmas and if needs be he will go. I have the greatest respect and admiration for him as he is a living legend, but I aint got stars in my eyes and if he cant cut the mustard he must step aside or be sacked.
Lets hope it doesnt come to this but he has to look back on this season as a missed opportunity and make sure he doesnt repeat the mistakes he made.
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Agree with much of what Thommo has just said.

Saw the team sheet for the final and just knew that barring a miracle we weren't gonna win it.

Had my gripes about Kenny's management this season but given the legend that he is I've always been prepared to hope he'll turn it around rather than calling for his head.

Right now I'm still hoping that come next season Kenny will sort it out BUT with all thats' gone on I'm far from convinced that he will.

Can only hope that if we don't show immediate improvement in the new season Kenny decides to go with the dignity of an unforced resignation rather than the humiliation of a sacking.

Despite his legendary status I guess the honeymoon for Kenny is finally over. Kenny's contribution to LFC will never be forgotten but as our current manager it's no longer about what you did for us yesterday.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon May 07, 2012 3:01 pm

Boxscarf » Sun May 06, 2012 6:43 pm wrote:I think supporters have a right to be frustrated Benny, just because a cup final clearly hasn't affected you much doesn't mean it hasn't affected everyone else in the same fashion as you! I was deeply upset yesterday and my calls for Benitez to return as manager were born from my anger and feelings of sorrow! Yesterday took me back to 1996 where we lost 1-0 to United in the FA Cup, it wasn't a good day for me yesterday, had a very bad day at work, so I apologise. My head and heart still want Kenny as our manager, but he must improve, we must improve. I don't think I can tolerate another season like this, it's driven me around the twist.


Supporters being the key word here

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Postby RedAnt » Mon May 07, 2012 3:12 pm

woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 pm wrote:Agree with much of what Thommo has just said.

Saw the team sheet for the final and just knew that barring a miracle we weren't gonna win it.

Had my gripes about Kenny's management this season but given the legend that he is I've always been prepared to hope he'll turn it around rather than calling for his head.

Right now I'm still hoping that come next season Kenny will sort it out BUT with all thats' gone on I'm far from convinced that he will.

Can only hope that if we don't show immediate improvement in the new season Kenny decides to go with the dignity of an unforced resignation rather than the humiliation of a sacking.

Despite his legendary status I guess the honeymoon for Kenny is finally over. Kenny's contribution to LFC will never be forgotten but as our current manager it's no longer about what you did for us yesterday.



Good posts. Just about my thoughts exactly. The summer, and then the first three months of next season will reveal just how far we've really come. This season should maybe be viewed as a bedding in period. As Woof Woof says, for Kenny the honeymoon is over and now it's time to get serious. Most fans, i'm sure, are willing to put this years campaign down to experience and let Kenny keep on....a second chance, if ya will (not including his glorious first spell).

Walk on with hope.

*meant to quote Thommo's post too.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Mon May 07, 2012 3:20 pm

RedAnt » Mon May 07, 2012 2:12 pm wrote:
woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 pm wrote:Agree with much of what Thommo has just said.

Saw the team sheet for the final and just knew that barring a miracle we weren't gonna win it.

Had my gripes about Kenny's management this season but given the legend that he is I've always been prepared to hope he'll turn it around rather than calling for his head.

Right now I'm still hoping that come next season Kenny will sort it out BUT with all thats' gone on I'm far from convinced that he will.

Can only hope that if we don't show immediate improvement in the new season Kenny decides to go with the dignity of an unforced resignation rather than the humiliation of a sacking.

Despite his legendary status I guess the honeymoon for Kenny is finally over. Kenny's contribution to LFC will never be forgotten but as our current manager it's no longer about what you did for us yesterday.



Good posts. Just about my thoughts exactly. The summer, and then the first three months of next season will reveal just how far we've really come. This season should maybe be viewed as a bedding in period. As Woof Woof says, for Kenny the honeymoon is over and now it's time to get serious. Most fans, i'm sure, are willing to put this years campaign down to experience and let Kenny keep on....a second chance, if ya will (not including his glorious first spell).

Walk on with hope.

*meant to quote Thommo's post too.


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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon May 07, 2012 3:34 pm

John Thompson: Liverpool FC boss Kenny Dalglish deserves the time and support despite FA Cup final defeat


WEMBLEY on FA Cup Final day is no place for losers, they say. But perhaps, just perhaps, it is a place for learners.

If so, Anfield’s student intake of 2011/12 might yet take something valuable from the pain of this defeat, perhaps learn a vital lesson from its anguish and adversity.

And they’ll need to, if they are to help their club realise the ambitions of its desperately disappointed manager, its demanding owners and its impressively faithful – but always expectant – supporters.

Throughout this Jekyll and Hyde season, Dalglish has taken every opportunity he’s had to praise his players; to encourage them, cajole them and signal his appreciation of their efforts.

But when he’s had to, he’s publicly indicated his deep displeasure, too.

Following a ghastly 3-1 reverse at Bolton in January, he harangued them, hung them out to dry.

As recently as last week, he accused some of them of a poor attitude, of lacking commitment in an unheard of defeat at home to Fulham.

On other occasions this term, he has spoken more than once of the need for greater self-belief from some of his stars.

And on Saturday night, as he sat alone behind a long desk facing the terraced, seated media in Wembley’s cinematic press room, he suggested the reason for the Reds’ anonymity for a crucial hour in this crucial game might have been due to nerves.

Attitude. Belief. Commitment, Nervousness.

His harshest critics might add the word ability, suggesting some of the Scot’s signings or fledglings simply don’t have enough of it.

But either way, they are all words which, in their negative form, are anathema to Dalglish, the player, manager and man.

He was in no mood for excuses as he tried to interpret Chelsea’s triumph over his side.

He didn’t seek to blame officials for things or for deciding Andy Carroll’s header hadn’t crossed the line.

Nor did he look for solace in a rousing 30 minute Liverpool blitz which had Chelsea cowering on the ropes, but which came sadly too late.

But like the Liverpool fans who trudged away from Wembley in London’s late spring twilight, he was clearly hurting badly.

Plenty of people out there want Dalglish to fail.

Whether it’s because of the odd caustic or mischievous response he returns to his questioners, his perceived handling of the Luis Suarez/Patrice Evra
affair, or simply the fact that Roy Hodgson is a jolly decent chap and he should be ashamed of himself, it hardly matters.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2012/05/07/john-thompson

I think some people easily forget that our manager will be as disconsolate and inconsolable as any supporter following the FA cup final .
I just believe this will  make him even more determined than ever to make his second time as manager a success.
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Postby friendlyguy33 » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 pm

parchpea » Mon May 07, 2012 9:28 am wrote:Net spend means nothing on the field.

We had that £100k in our hands and spent it on this team, and that is the only stat that matters.


Why did net spend matter every year under Rafa then?  The fact is that had we sold Torres in January last year and bought Suarez (who then was unproven in the premiership) we would had been weaker squad wise which was why we went out and bought Carroll? You can't discount the fact that as well as spending all that money last year we also sold our best striker even if his best days probably were behind him.

There's a lot of bullshy being spouted right now. Tony Evans is quoted in today's Times with various comments about Dalglish being a mircale worker first time around in the 80s, how John Henry can't see the reality that Anfield can't be rebuilt like Fenway Park and how Ian Ayres was so caught up in the Hicks Gillette regime that he's not the leader in the CEO role that the club need. Does Tony Evans know what decisions or options the club are actually considering with regard to the stadium? He said that the season was a failure despite the silverware brought back with the League Cup.

Some people have short memories. Year on year for three years Rafa won nothing yet qualified for the champions league? Were those seasons successful then?
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 4:31 pm

friendlyguy33 » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 pm wrote:
Some people have short memories. Year on year for three years Rafa won nothing yet qualified for the champions league? Were those seasons successful then?


Compared to this season YES they were.

I'm deliberately ignoring the piece of tin we picked up this season in a penalty shoot out against the mighty Cardiff as it's something that many people (apparently with even shorter memories ) would have dismissed as not worth p'issing in just a few seasons ago.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon May 07, 2012 4:46 pm

woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 3:31 pm wrote:
friendlyguy33 » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 pm wrote:
Some people have short memories. Year on year for three years Rafa won nothing yet qualified for the champions league? Were those seasons successful then?


Compared to this season YES they were.

I'm deliberately ignoring the piece of tin we picked up this season in a penalty shoot out against the mighty Cardiff as it's something that many people (apparently with even shorter memories ) would have dismissed as not worth p'issing in just a few seasons ago.


i dont think our fans have ever dissmissed the league cup, it felt pretty bad when we lost the final to arsenal in 87 and chelsea when rafa was in charge.
plus dont forget leeds when they were in their pomp lost to 2nd division sunderland in the F.A cup final in 73, united lost to 2nd division southampton in the final of 76 and arsenal lost to 2nd division west ham in 80, if we had have lost to a lower division side we wouldnt have been the first club thats happened to.
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Postby woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 4:57 pm

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon May 07, 2012 4:46 pm wrote:
woof woof ! » Mon May 07, 2012 3:31 pm wrote:
friendlyguy33 » Mon May 07, 2012 3:46 pm wrote:
Some people have short memories. Year on year for three years Rafa won nothing yet qualified for the champions league? Were those seasons successful then?


Compared to this season YES they were.

I'm deliberately ignoring the piece of tin we picked up this season in a penalty shoot out against the mighty Cardiff as it's something that many people (apparently with even shorter memories ) would have dismissed as not worth p'issing in just a few seasons ago.


i dont think our fans have ever dissmissed the league cup, it felt pretty bad when we lost the final to arsenal in 87 and chelsea when rafa was in charge.
plus dont forget leeds when they were in their pomp lost to 2nd division sunderland in the F.A cup final in 73, united lost to 2nd division southampton in the final of 76 and arsenal lost to 2nd division west ham in 80, if we had have lost to a lower division side we wouldnt have been the first club thats happened to.


1. It feels bad to lose any game
2. In the last decade the league cup always sparked the "Lets give the youngsters a chance" debate, most of us never took it seriously until the semi's.
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