Liverpool FC Forum

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:
And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

I'd say that was the case for pretty much 90% of footballers nowadays.

City will dominate English and European football, that I am sure of. We on the other hand just need to start rebuilding this club. Christian Purslow's comments about us being a day away from entering administration really hit home this morning. It made me realise just how close our club was from being destroyed and no matter how bad this season has been, nothing can be as bad as seeing your club go into administration followed by being asset stripped of everything it's worth and then falling down into the lower tiers of English football. We as a club need to sign a better calibre of player, no one is saying we must sign Aguero or Tevez, Ibramhimovic or Samuel Eto'o, but we do need to sign a calibre of footballer that is better than what we have presently. Spurs plucked players like Bale and Modric from 'smaller clubs' and Everton have made a fantastic signing in Jelavic from Rangers. Newcastle signed Tiote from FC Twente and Yohan Cabaye from Lille. So there are quality footballers out there just waiting for a club like Liverpool to sign them. Arda Turan was practically begging us to sign him a year or so ago, but has now been snapped up by Atletico Madrid and is doing very well for them. Falcao was available in the summer for us to sign, if we wanted to and now he too is at Atletico and it's frustrating to know that there are fantastic footballers out there who will sign for us, but we always seem to play it safe in the transfer market. We're after Clint Dempsey and Rasmus Elm, when we should be after a higher calibre of footballer.

Our problem is we lack ambition in the transfer market!

Arda Turan has done nothing in his career to suggest he can do well in the prem - he is a name that has passed around forums for years now and still has done nothing.

Spurs spent 10 mil "plucking" Bale and players like Jelavic have so far proved nothing over a sustained period and could easily turn out to be another Alfonso Alves or Kezman

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 11:05 pm wrote: and still has done nothing.

except play well for his club(s) and the national team.

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.

The most important thing for any club besides City and maybe Chelski is that they can't waste money when they spend it.
All clubs have to spend wisely, never overpay and find the right players.
When that fails the club will fail.
We can't afford spending 100 million each season so now we are stuck with the garbage Kenny brought last summe as I expect much less spending this summer.

This is a qoute on RAWK and it sums up most of my feelings:

"Absolutely terrible season given the huge opportunity we had last summer.

Kenny had improved the league form in the back end of the previous season and although we failed to get into europe despite being sat in 5th with 2 games to go and 2 points clear, the positives were that without europe it would give us an opportunity to focus on the league and get back into the top 4 as well as possibly winning a cup along the way. Kenny had used the last few months to look at the squad, assess where it needed strengthening and who was not going to be part of his plans.

The owners spent big and brought in the players Kenny wanted, and we entered the season with great confidence. Chelsea had a new coach coming in, Spurs didn't spend much and Arsenal had lost 3 key players in the summer, and there was a very realistic chance of us getting back in the mix at the top end of the table. The owners stated that not getting back into the top four would be a "major disappointment".

The season started well, and after 3 games we topped the table going into the international break. When we returned we then lost 2 league matches and all of a sudden the wheels started coming off Kenny's plans in the league. We dropped out of the top 4 placings and we would never return back to those heights in the league all season. We spent the first half of the league campaign "there or there abouts" in 5th/6th spot, always within 1-5 points of the top 4 places and kept in touching distance until November/December time.

The turn of the year, 2012, saw us head into the worst run of league form I have ever seen, and presently it stands at P17 W4 D3 L10 which is relegation form. This run of form is worse than that which saw Hodgson get sacked, and is inexcusable for a Liverpool manager given the financial and moral backing Kenny has been given.

For us to finish 8th or 9th after that level of financial backing (2011 accounts showed we started the season with the 4th highest wage bill in the league!) and with no europe to distract us and tire the players (Chelsea had 10 more games in their legs yesterday than us, and we still couldn't capitalise) it simply can't be anything other than disasterous. We will never get a better opportunity than we had this season and we f*cking blew it big time.

To only get 5 home wins in the league is shocking. You can hide behind bad luck, poor ref decisions or whatever, the reality is that is as bad as we have seen in our entire History. We are trying as a club to look at increasing capacity or get a new stadium, but do we expect fans to spend their hard earned on season tickets only to be served up ***** like that?

I also don't buy this line of thought that we have performed extremely well and as soon as we get a top goalscorer we will be ok. We spent £58mill on a new strikeforce last January and you want the owners to spend on another top forward? Our football in the main has been too slow, too safe and lacking in cutting edge. We get big possession stats because we pass it around at the back for an hour each match, and we get more shots at goal because we get frustrated at not being able to break a team down and just lash a 25 yarder aimlessly into the Kop once more.

The standards at this club are to be competitive for the two trophies that make this club special - the league title and the European Cup. Right now we are so far off winning either of them its a joke. Judging by the standards of many fans we have now become a mid-table team who rely on a good cup run, or even winning one, as a sign of success. Anyone calling this season a success because we won the league cup has lowered their standards to cover up the managers failings.

Yesterday, were the Fans singing "f*ck off, Chelsea FC, you ain't got no history, 7 FA Cups, and 8 League Cups, thats what we call history"? We have to get back to competing at the top table of domestic and european football.

All this nonsense that its a major rebuilding job etc is a myth too as Kenny inherited a very good group of players who simply needed 2 or 3 really quality additions to be made to it in order to compete, and instead he ripped up the squad and reshaped it to his style (just like he did at Newcastle in his last job in England) and he must take responsibility for the fact we have brought in £55mill worth of new talent to supplement the squad that came 6th last season and we have gone BACKWARDS with fewer points, fewer goals, fewer home wins, and a lower league placing. Where is the evidence (other than blind faith and the fact Kenny won league titles 17 plus years ago) to suggest he will improve on that next season and take us into the top end of the table?

Kenny focused on the domestic cups at the start of the season, and ultimately sacrificed any chance we had of getting into the Champions League in favour of winning a cup. When the owners talked about a disconnect in strategy when they removed Comolli, I could see a similar disconnect throughout the season in the ambitions of the owners and the manager. They wanted top 4 but Kenny wanted a trophy, with the owners looking to move the club in one direction while Kenny has taken us in another.

As a fan, I want Liverpool to be as successful as it can be, and whilst winning a Carling Cup is nice, its not really what helped to make Liverpool Football Club one of the finest clubs in world football, and finishing in 8th place or lower with our lowest points total in modern day history certainly won't do that long term."

This thread is about whether should Kenny leave and many of us have been off topic which is still ok provided you give your view on whether kenny should leave or not or given another season.

IMHO, I think he doesn't have what it takes anymore to get us back to what we were in his first tenure as manager which is very sad. He was a super success first time round and in this 2nd stint, he is at the opposite end. I think he should leave if we can find a much better replacement. Many of you want Rafa back and being the superstitious type, the notion that you should never go back seems to be proven correct time and again. Look at Kenny's 2nd spell. Howard Kendall returned to Everton about 4 times and each time the performance was worse than the previous return. But please don't change manager for the sake of changing. If we are to have a new boss, we should look into guys like Laurent Blanc, Rijkaard, Capello or even Hiddink and no mid table managers. A club of Liverpool's stature is too good for mediocre managers.

However, having said all that, if Kenny has learnt his lesson and will not try to whip a dead horse back to life by sticking with guys like Henderson, Spearing, Downing next season but instead sign 2 better strikers, right winger, creative midfielder, I am more than happy to see him given another season to redeem himself. If not, I will want him to go, period. I don't know whether FSG refused to provide any funds or what, but I was disappointed with him in that in January he didn't try to look for a replacement for Lucas and didn't sign the much needed striker. He was trying to justify his s.hit signings in Henderson, Downing by consistently playing them. He insisted on using Spearing as a Lucas replacement and it is clearly not working and yet he stubbornly picks him. Henderson is always being played out of his favourite position. This is just like a big firm needing a Tax Consultant but instead hired an Audit manager to do the job, no doubt he can do something, but he won't be doing a satisfactory job. His team selections, substitutions and strategy continues to baffle me.

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 6:33 pm wrote:The day after we lose a cup final and the vultures are out with knives in their hands. Some people don't know the first clue about support.

Kewell you have wanted Kenny gone all season long no matter what was happening. I can't wait till next season to watch him shove your ***** right back down your throat. Heimdall why bother posting on something you don't have a clue about - supporting Liverpool and football.

Many fans understandable reaction after the FA Cup Final are as much as a result of our Premiership performance over the last 13 games than the cup final itself. Since the turn of the year we are virtually bottom of the table with 13 points from 39 and quite a number of home performances that simply beggar belief.If your happy with that then your very easily pleased.A lot of fans have paid substantial amounts of money to watch some of the worst Liverpool performances in the last 30 to 40 years.Can you blame them for getting annoyed and frustrated.I was at the Fulham match last week and I could not believe what I was being subjected to. If anybody and I mean anybody was managing Liverpool other than Dalglish the reality is they would have been sacked soon after the final whistle had blown at Wembley and that simply would not have been down to losing the cup final.

Your hypocrisy is incredible. Read your own very insulting and disparaging posts about Hodgson almost before a ball was even kicked before having a go at fans who have given Kenny a lot of time to demonstrate that he has the team moving in the right direction. You never gave Hodgson a chance and in fairness he had done a half reasonable job with Fulham. Take a look at West Broms league position relative to ours and the fact that he had fk all to spend should tell you something. It's all very well trying to constantly claim the moral high ground but I am afraid in your case it is littered with inconsistencies.

7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.

Newcastle are currently 5th and will go back to mid table next season. They are a one off team like we have seen a number of times.

Penguins » Mon May 07, 2012 2:00 am wrote:The most important thing for any club besides City and maybe Chelski is that they can't waste money when they spend it.
All clubs have to spend wisely, never overpay and find the right players.
When that fails the club will fail.
We can't afford spending 100 million each season so now we are stuck with the garbage Kenny brought last summe as I expect much less spending this summer.

This is a qoute on RAWK and it sums up most of my feelings:

"Absolutely terrible season given the huge opportunity we had last summer.

Kenny had improved the league form in the back end of the previous season and although we failed to get into europe despite being sat in 5th with 2 games to go and 2 points clear, the positives were that without europe it would give us an opportunity to focus on the league and get back into the top 4 as well as possibly winning a cup along the way. Kenny had used the last few months to look at the squad, assess where it needed strengthening and who was not going to be part of his plans.

The owners spent big and brought in the players Kenny wanted, and we entered the season with great confidence. Chelsea had a new coach coming in, Spurs didn't spend much and Arsenal had lost 3 key players in the summer, and there was a very realistic chance of us getting back in the mix at the top end of the table. The owners stated that not getting back into the top four would be a "major disappointment".

The season started well, and after 3 games we topped the table going into the international break. When we returned we then lost 2 league matches and all of a sudden the wheels started coming off Kenny's plans in the league. We dropped out of the top 4 placings and we would never return back to those heights in the league all season. We spent the first half of the league campaign "there or there abouts" in 5th/6th spot, always within 1-5 points of the top 4 places and kept in touching distance until November/December time.

The turn of the year, 2012, saw us head into the worst run of league form I have ever seen, and presently it stands at P17 W4 D3 L10 which is relegation form. This run of form is worse than that which saw Hodgson get sacked, and is inexcusable for a Liverpool manager given the financial and moral backing Kenny has been given.

For us to finish 8th or 9th after that level of financial backing (2011 accounts showed we started the season with the 4th highest wage bill in the league!) and with no europe to distract us and tire the players (Chelsea had 10 more games in their legs yesterday than us, and we still couldn't capitalise) it simply can't be anything other than disasterous. We will never get a better opportunity than we had this season and we f*cking blew it big time.

To only get 5 home wins in the league is shocking. You can hide behind bad luck, poor ref decisions or whatever, the reality is that is as bad as we have seen in our entire History. We are trying as a club to look at increasing capacity or get a new stadium, but do we expect fans to spend their hard earned on season tickets only to be served up ***** like that?

I also don't buy this line of thought that we have performed extremely well and as soon as we get a top goalscorer we will be ok. We spent £58mill on a new strikeforce last January and you want the owners to spend on another top forward? Our football in the main has been too slow, too safe and lacking in cutting edge. We get big possession stats because we pass it around at the back for an hour each match, and we get more shots at goal because we get frustrated at not being able to break a team down and just lash a 25 yarder aimlessly into the Kop once more.

The standards at this club are to be competitive for the two trophies that make this club special - the league title and the European Cup. Right now we are so far off winning either of them its a joke. Judging by the standards of many fans we have now become a mid-table team who rely on a good cup run, or even winning one, as a sign of success. Anyone calling this season a success because we won the league cup has lowered their standards to cover up the managers failings.

Yesterday, were the Fans singing "f*ck off, Chelsea FC, you ain't got no history, 7 FA Cups, and 8 League Cups, thats what we call history"? We have to get back to competing at the top table of domestic and european football.

All this nonsense that its a major rebuilding job etc is a myth too as Kenny inherited a very good group of players who simply needed 2 or 3 really quality additions to be made to it in order to compete, and instead he ripped up the squad and reshaped it to his style (just like he did at Newcastle in his last job in England) and he must take responsibility for the fact we have brought in £55mill worth of new talent to supplement the squad that came 6th last season and we have gone BACKWARDS with fewer points, fewer goals, fewer home wins, and a lower league placing. Where is the evidence (other than blind faith and the fact Kenny won league titles 17 plus years ago) to suggest he will improve on that next season and take us into the top end of the table?

Kenny focused on the domestic cups at the start of the season, and ultimately sacrificed any chance we had of getting into the Champions League in favour of winning a cup. When the owners talked about a disconnect in strategy when they removed Comolli, I could see a similar disconnect throughout the season in the ambitions of the owners and the manager. They wanted top 4 but Kenny wanted a trophy, with the owners looking to move the club in one direction while Kenny has taken us in another.

As a fan, I want Liverpool to be as successful as it can be, and whilst winning a Carling Cup is nice, its not really what helped to make Liverpool Football Club one of the finest clubs in world football, and finishing in 8th place or lower with our lowest points total in modern day history certainly won't do that long term."

Good post

7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 12:07 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.

Newcastle haven't broken into the top four yet as things stand Spurs are fourth. They play Fulham next sunday Newcastle are at Everton the odds must be against those two results going Newcastle's way. Everton finished fourth in 04-05 but they've never been as high since. Even if your argument on Newcastle challenging for top four this year with little money spent is valid it doesn't mean they'll be a high next year. They are a bit of a one off how did they do at Anfield this season against a team who have won so few home games? They lost 3-1.

Boxscarf » Sun May 06, 2012 9:31 pm wrote:You raise a good point about Manchester City, though they didn't finish 6th one season, get £100m worth of investment and then finish 9th the next season. Manchester City have spent their investment money wisely, players like Yaya Toure, David Silva, Sergio Aguero and Carlos Tevez have transformed Manchester City.

It's not really comparable in terms of last season compared to City in 09/10 because Dalgllish lost Torres when he bought Suarez and Carroll. Liverpool haven't spent net £100 million in the last fifteen months or so. The comparison can only be made from this point on. So if Dalglish were to spend say £100 million again this summer and next season the team is 8th again you'd be making a valid comparison with City.

Somehow I can't see Dalglish making the same mistakes with transfers in the summer I suspect the club will be far more cautious about who they buy and there will probably only be two or three coming in with quite a few more leaving.

Net spend means nothing on the field.

We had that £100k in our hands and spent it on this team, and that is the only stat that matters.

Benny The Noon » Mon May 07, 2012 7:10 am wrote:

7_Kewell » Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun May 06, 2012 9:49 pm wrote:They have unlimited funds to be able to buy ready made talent ? We are not in the same position.

And they won't dominate because players will leave because they are mercenaries playing for money

You don't need unlimited funds to break into the top 4, Newcastle have proven that.

Newcastle are currently 5th and will go back to mid table next season. They are a one off team like we have seen a number of times.

Thats a stupid statement, I bet all season you have been saying their league position lies and soon they will drop to mid table

UEFA regualtions these days do not allow unlimited funding, wake up guys.

I was really expecting Kenny to do last summer what he did at the beginning of the 1987-88 season, then he brount in Barnes, Beardsley and Houghton to add to Aldridge and we were world beaters, I know he was starting with a better squad then but I did believe we would make greater strides than we have done this season.