Liverpool FC Forum

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat May 05, 2012 10:04 pm wrote:

Boxscarf » Sat May 05, 2012 9:30 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat May 05, 2012 9:24 pm wrote:
there`s too many hypothetical questions there that no one can answer without a crystal ball mate, dalglish is a good manager who has built different title winning sides at 2 different clubs, when everyone is fit we have the foundations of a good side, chelsea are champions league finalists and despite our defence and keeper giving them a goal start we rattled them today far more than barcelona did, a shyte team wouldnt have them hanging on like that, we have beaten united, city, chelsea (twice), arsenal, newcastle and a good everton side 3 times this season, we are not shyte we are just inconsistent, but with a bit of luck in the transfer market (if we can sign another suarez in terms of impact on the team) and with lucas coming back into the side we wont be far away next season.

I hope you're right, I would love it if you were right, but I'm unsure! I've lost just all faith! All that faith I had a year ago is gone. Unless I see some real intent in the summer from the club, it probably won't come back.

we have had a nightmare season mate but as i say there are things to be optimistic about.
for a start i think suarez is now totally at home in english football a fact backed up by the way the goals have recently started to flow, he`s got 17 now and for someone who missed practically a quarter of the season and had a lot of bad luck in front of goal earlier on thats a more than decent return. lets not forget that the media storm must have affected him on a personal level as well so to come through all that and end up with 17 that is a good sign for next season. if he stays injury free and out of the headlines i`m convinced he`s going to get 25+ goals next campaign.
another positive is andy carroll, he`s another player who has shown a lot of mental toughness and although he is still a long way away from his late 20`s / early 30`s target man peak he is slowly developing into a player that looks like he could really do some damage in this league. his performance today against 2 of the most physical and competent defenders in the league was nothing short of awesome.
the keeper is too good to have another season as poor as this one and the back four were right up there with city`s statistically for a large part of the season until injuries hit.
lucas looked phenominal until he got injured, it`s easy to forget now because it was a while back but he dominated the likes of yaya toure and chelsea`s midfield and if he comes back as good as that the team will improve ten fold.
we are not a million miles away from a very, very good side.

Do you find it ironic that you have dismissed a poster's opinion as "hypotheticals" and "what ifs" when only 1 post later you are DOING THE SAME THING?

I certainly do

It is a very disappointing season... Despite the fact that we won our first trophy in 6 years, winning the Carling Cup is but a consolation price... It's as if we're told "there there... You maybe a midtable team and your big money transfer may have flopped... But here have the league cup, the competition that championship teams dream of winning and the top premiership use to give exposure to their reserves". It's like we are Aston villa or Birmingham, mid-table teams who won the league cup.

We had a shaky start to the season but what's really worrying is the fact that we are even worse in the second half of the season and in relegation form. It shows that Kenny couldn't get the best out of these group of players. Rafa's teams were guilty of having poor starts to the season, but they always improve in the second half of the season.

For the owners, there are only two roads to take from here if we are to improve and progress next season:

1. Keep faith with Kenny, which would mean conceding that the current crop of players are not good enough and therefore require more investment in the transfer market if we are to improve. OR..

2. Take the stance that Kenny couldn't get the best out of last summer's investment and move Kenny on replacing him with someone who could get the team playing better

If neither of the above happens, we are in for another disappointing season next season...

I doubt that the owners will replace Kenny unless he decides he should walk because he's gone as far as he can with the squad.

If the owners change course and move Kenny back to the academy after one year the risk is surely that someone else will find things equally as difficult in terms of moving the team on after the Rafa/Hodgson era. Kenny could step down someone else from abroad could come in during the summer and by Christmas LIverpool could still only be seventh.

What happens then? Do we have another managerial change at the end of next season like Chelsea do almost every season?

Kenny will have to get it right in the transfer market this summer but clearly if we have another season like this next year then at that point a decision will have to be made about the manager.

we have had a nightmare season mate but as i say there are things to be optimistic about.
for a start i think suarez is now totally at home in english football a fact backed up by the way the goals have recently started to flow, he`s got 17 now and for someone who missed practically a quarter of the season and had a lot of bad luck in front of goal earlier on thats a more than decent return. lets not forget that the media storm must have affected him on a personal level as well so to come through all that and end up with 17 that is a good sign for next season. if he stays injury free and out of the headlines i`m convinced he`s going to get 25+ goals next campaign.
another positive is andy carroll, he`s another player who has shown a lot of mental toughness and although he is still a long way away from his late 20`s / early 30`s target man peak he is slowly developing into a player that looks like he could really do some damage in this league. his performance today against 2 of the most physical and competent defenders in the league was nothing short of awesome.
the keeper is too good to have another season as poor as this one and the back four were right up there with city`s statistically for a large part of the season until injuries hit.
lucas looked phenominal until he got injured, it`s easy to forget now because it was a while back but he dominated the likes of yaya toure and chelsea`s midfield and if he comes back as good as that the team will improve ten fold.
we are not a million miles away from a very, very good side.[/quote]

Do you find it ironic that you have dismissed a poster's opinion as "hypotheticals" and "what ifs" when only 1 post later you are DOING THE SAME THING?

I certainly do [/quote]


Do you not think looking forward at any football is 'hypothetical'? Football is all ifs and buts, thats why bookies make so much money and owners have heart attacks. I do find it quite pathetic that people who would consider themselves knowledgeable football fans can honestly hold the impression that Dalglish could turn the club round to be title contenders within 18 months. That he could afford to lose Lucas for over half a season, face all the backlash from the Suarez affair, expect all the signings to bed in from the off and hit the ground runnin. Dont forget he led us into 3 competitions this year - we won 1 (albeit the Mickey Mouse one, we came second in another and yes, failed miserably in the big one. Inside 18 months from being in and around the bottom 3.

Football aint about instant success. If it was Abramovich would have been long gone from chelski having achieved his dream, slur alex would have got that 1st title much quicker than he did for that lot and Mancini would be baskin in the glory of a title win before easter. It'll take time to repair what we have got, and another manager inside 2 years from Rafa's departure would hinder that, not benefit it.

Hypothetically.

I think the problem is that members on here keep looking back at Rafas years here and thinking they where great, in truth we were a Sh*t team many times under Rafa.
members on here keep saying about Rafas Net spend.......well kenny only been here a year and had not had the time to build up a Net spend, you will have to hold off for a few windows to see how his works out.

this season we have won something for the first time in 6 years, more than that we have been in two finals.
The big problem this year has been our home games, in most we have had control for over 65% of the game and had about 15 shots on goal in each game. hit the post at home about 20 times (11 in away games i think), its not as if we have always looked a bad team in them games, in truth we have looked the better team but just did not get the result.

This year the prem has given other clubs a shock aswell, more smaller clubs are getting results that you would never think could happen.

I back Kenny to make us a top 3 team next year.

lakes10 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 am wrote:I think the problem is that members on here keep looking back at Rafas years here and thinking they where great, in truth we were a Sh*t team many times under Rafa.
members on here keep saying about Rafas Net spend.......well kenny only been here a year and had not had the time to build up a Net spend, you will have to hold off for a few windows to see how his works out.

this season we have won something for the first time in 6 years, more than that we have been in two finals.
The big problem this year has been our home games, in most we have had control for over 65% of the game and had about 15 shots on goal in each game. hit the post at home about 20 times (11 in away games i think), its not as if we have always looked a bad team in them games, in truth we have looked the better team but just did not get the result.

This year the prem has given other clubs a shock aswell, more smaller clubs are getting results that you would never think could happen.

I back Kenny to make us a top 3 team next year.

I hope your right Lakes and no doubt you would make a half decent attempt at convincing me that Kenny's starting line up yesterday was correct! As for Rafa's net spend it is not something I was comparing with Kenny who in net terms has not spent a fortune. Circa £35m which considering the work that needed doing isn't too bad.It is what Kenny has spent it on that concerns me.I wasn't Rafa's biggest fan at the end.The team and the football wasn't good.His controlling demands were too great and his stubbornness lead to his downfall and the reason why not many clubs have gone after him. It is your criticism of Rafa's 72 purchases which in fact was only 59 that I do not accept. He created one of the best midfields in the world and I'm sure you remember the song.Do you think the Kop will pen a song for the current bunch? He bought Torres who gave us some great memories and £30m in the bank! He bought Alonso who gave us some great years and £20m in the bank.Net spend is massively important and your simple dismissal of Rafa's achievement in this area smacks of either bloo.dy mindedness or naivety.Yes he bought some rubbish but so does every manager including the whiskey nosey cu.nt down the road!

KK wll stay
He should be given one more season and if he doesnt improve on this season he has to go because it will be plain that he cant manage at the top level anymore. He HAS to learn from his mistakes. Rafa didnt and quite rightly went. If KK is stuck in his mind set that he is right no matter what, like Rafa was, then he is fu'cked.

One has to suspect that Carroll's groin issue last week at Norwich was used by KK to pair Suarez and Gerrard together for that game because he never intended to select Carroll for the cup final. KK got it wrong yesterday Bellamy should have been on the bench he would have been as useless on the left I can't see a long term future for him at the club now he's 33. The Gerrard/Suarez tactic failed yesterday because Spearing and Henderson weren't able to release the ball quickly enough on that pitch and Chelsea's midfield was better at keeping the ball.

If Carroll had started the game I'm not saying Liverpool would have won it but I suspect that tactically the first half would have been much different.

Kenny has made tactical errors in some games this season and regardless of whatever he does right or wrong with transfers this summer if he can't get that right in the future he is doomed.

devaney » Sun May 06, 2012 10:32 am wrote:

lakes10 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 am wrote:I think the problem is that members on here keep looking back at Rafas years here and thinking they where great, in truth we were a Sh*t team many times under Rafa.
members on here keep saying about Rafas Net spend.......well kenny only been here a year and had not had the time to build up a Net spend, you will have to hold off for a few windows to see how his works out.

this season we have won something for the first time in 6 years, more than that we have been in two finals.
The big problem this year has been our home games, in most we have had control for over 65% of the game and had about 15 shots on goal in each game. hit the post at home about 20 times (11 in away games i think), its not as if we have always looked a bad team in them games, in truth we have looked the better team but just did not get the result.

This year the prem has given other clubs a shock aswell, more smaller clubs are getting results that you would never think could happen.

I back Kenny to make us a top 3 team next year.

I hope your right Lakes and no doubt you would make a half decent attempt at convincing me that Kenny's starting line up yesterday was correct! As for Rafa's net spend it is not something I was comparing with Kenny who in net terms has not spent a fortune. Circa £35m which considering the work that needed doing isn't too bad.It is what Kenny has spent it on that concerns me.I wasn't Rafa's biggest fan at the end.The team and the football wasn't good.His controlling demands were too great and his stubbornness lead to his downfall and the reason why not many clubs have gone after him. It is your criticism of Rafa's 72 purchases which in fact was only 59 that I do not accept. He created one of the best midfields in the world and I'm sure you remember the song.Do you think the Kop will pen a song for the current bunch? He bought Torres who gave us some great memories and £30m in the bank! He bought Alonso who gave us some great years and £20m in the bank.Net spend is massively important and your simple dismissal of Rafa's achievement in this area smacks of either bloo.dy mindedness or naivety.Yes he bought some rubbish but so does every manager including the whiskey nosey cu.nt down the road!

The ponit I am making about net spend is that we dont know what kenny will do in this window, how much he is going to sell players for, and we might end up thinking that the money spent on Andy is well worth it, as it stands he has already got us into one final and was our best player in that final he got us into.

and Rafa did not get us 56 players it was 76 players lol
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... reign.html

Terrible decision to not start Carroll, one of our in form players. Those are the decisions that have me wondering about KK.

That said, its time to take a big, psychological dump and clear this season off. A new season brings a new mindset.

lakes10 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:46 am wrote:

devaney » Sun May 06, 2012 10:32 am wrote:

lakes10 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 am wrote:I think the problem is that members on here keep looking back at Rafas years here and thinking they where great, in truth we were a Sh*t team many times under Rafa.
members on here keep saying about Rafas Net spend.......well kenny only been here a year and had not had the time to build up a Net spend, you will have to hold off for a few windows to see how his works out.

this season we have won something for the first time in 6 years, more than that we have been in two finals.
The big problem this year has been our home games, in most we have had control for over 65% of the game and had about 15 shots on goal in each game. hit the post at home about 20 times (11 in away games i think), its not as if we have always looked a bad team in them games, in truth we have looked the better team but just did not get the result.

This year the prem has given other clubs a shock aswell, more smaller clubs are getting results that you would never think could happen.



I back Kenny to make us a top 3 team next year.

I hope your right Lakes and no doubt you would make a half decent attempt at convincing me that Kenny's starting line up yesterday was correct! As for Rafa's net spend it is not something I was comparing with Kenny who in net terms has not spent a fortune. Circa £35m which considering the work that needed doing isn't too bad.It is what Kenny has spent it on that concerns me.I wasn't Rafa's biggest fan at the end.The team and the football wasn't good.His controlling demands were too great and his stubbornness lead to his downfall and the reason why not many clubs have gone after him. It is your criticism of Rafa's 72 purchases which in fact was only 59 that I do not accept. He created one of the best midfields in the world and I'm sure you remember the song.Do you think the Kop will pen a song for the current bunch? He bought Torres who gave us some great memories and £30m in the bank! He bought Alonso who gave us some great years and £20m in the bank.Net spend is massively important and your simple dismissal of Rafa's achievement in this area smacks of either bloo.dy mindedness or naivety.Yes he bought some rubbish but so does every manager including the whiskey nosey cu.nt down the road!

The ponit I am making about net spend is that we dont know what kenny will do in this window, how much he is going to sell players for, and we might end up thinking that the money spent on Andy is well worth it, as it stands he has already got us into one final and was our best player in that final he got us into.

and Rafa did not get us 56 players it was 76 players lol
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... reign.html

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp

It was 83 players from this link I've taken off the players who Benitez signed as trainees. It's still more than previously thought even with those removed.

and Rafa did not get us 56 players it was 76 players lol
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... reign.html[/quote]

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/benitez.asp

It was 83 players from this link I've taken off the players who Benitez signed as trainees. It's still more than previously thought even with those removed.[/quote]




ok 83 players


anyway Net spend dont show the real cost of his buys, even kids that come here on a free we have to pay. plus paying 50% of wage of ***** players that are out on loan, to work out how much Rafa and his buys cost the club you also must work out stuff like wage bills, agent fees, moving costs.
and theres no point looking at kenny and his net spend untill he had a chance to sell some players.
we hear it 14 out and 9 in.(well 9 we are looking out)

bunglemark2 » Sat May 05, 2012 8:51 pm wrote:Mods: what ever happened to the "cards" issued to wum's on this site, like Boxscarf, Banana(one) and others ?
They contribute f**kall to the forum and just wind people up ....

Oh f*ck you ***** for trying to get posters carded, absolutely disgraceful!!!   

red till i die!! » Sat May 05, 2012 9:47 pm wrote:nothing to do with the manager or the tactics today that we lost the game.it was all down to the players.we have far to many weak links and the decent players that we do have cant carry them.
what we have on the bench in maxi,kuyt,etc arent the answer either as that horse has been flogged many times before.sure they might have put in a better performance than some but overall they arent the solution going forward.
if anything this season has highlighted our shortfalls and that needs to be addressed over the summer with quality players.

Who bought and picked the players, or is that somehow not kenny's fault either. Yesterday kenny got the tactics wrong, henderson should never ever play for us again, utter disgrace of a footballer, zero talent. We should have started with a 4-4-2 and Maxi and Kuyt should have started the game.

The bottom line is that kenny is not good enough as a manager and I hope to God that the owners realise this before our proud history becomes ancient history and our great club becomes another of the former greats.

lakes10 » Sun May 06, 2012 9:14 am wrote:I think the problem is that members on here keep looking back at Rafas years here and thinking they where great, in truth we were a Sh*t team many times under Rafa.
members on here keep saying about Rafas Net spend.......well kenny only been here a year and had not had the time to build up a Net spend, you will have to hold off for a few windows to see how his works out.

this season we have won something for the first time in 6 years, more than that we have been in two finals.
The big problem this year has been our home games, in most we have had control for over 65% of the game and had about 15 shots on goal in each game. hit the post at home about 20 times (11 in away games i think), its not as if we have always looked a bad team in them games, in truth we have looked the better team but just did not get the result.

This year the prem has given other clubs a shock aswell, more smaller clubs are getting results that you would never think could happen.

I back Kenny to make us a top 3 team next year.

This is utter blind faith, what basis do you have for thinking that Kenny will make us a top3 team next season, what will he change, how will the club change?