Liverpool FC Forum

parchpea » Thu May 03, 2012 7:52 pm wrote:Club went down the pan after the Rafa rant when the wheels came off and we ended up second.

Reg » Thu May 03, 2012 10:17 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Fri May 04, 2012 6:10 am wrote:

Boxscarf » Wed May 02, 2012 10:40 am wrote:I should be looking forward to this FA Cup final, it's a final, of one of the greatest cup competitions in football - yet I just want it to be over, I won't be able to watch it as I'm working and a small part of me is a delighted, because the way we're playing and the way Chelsea are playing, I can only see one outcome on Saturday and it doesn't bode well for us.

Its fans like you that make me so so proud.

Don't be daft RBG, everyone's entitled to an opinion and the lad makes his in a sensible way. You're getting too sensitive.

Reg » Thu May 03, 2012 11:20 pm wrote:Lakes, if you recall a) many, many of those 76 lads Rafa bought were 16,17 and 18 year olds from all over europe for the academy, they weren't intended for the first team b) you keep garden gnomes in your back yard which in a sense is similar to the young lads Rafa was buying for the club - useless.   :laugh:

Spare me from every condescending spotty prepubescent teenager and their fucking blogs ....and I dont do fucking daft in any shape or form 
we clear on that Reg ?

On a side note ...this place is attracting  more beauts than a talk sport phone in .

Kenny Kan » Fri May 04, 2012 2:07 pm wrote:

Spare me from every condescending spotty prepubescent teenager and their fucking blogs ....and I dont do fucking daft in any shape or form 
we clear on that Reg ?

On a side note ...this place is attracting  more beauts than a talk sport phone in .

Reg » Fri May 04, 2012 6:30 am wrote:

Kenny Kan » Fri May 04, 2012 2:07 pm wrote:

Spare me from every condescending spotty prepubescent teenager and their fucking blogs ....and I dont do fucking daft in any shape or form 
we clear on that Reg ?

On a side note ...this place is attracting  more beauts than a talk sport phone in .

Trust the stalker to like that! RBG was on the sauce I suspect last night. 'I don't do fkg daft' 

Cool Hand Luke » Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 pm wrote:When Kenny was put in temporary charge last January I thought it was the wrong move by the club. I didn’t see him as the man to realise the clubs vision of getting us back competing at the top tables of English and European football. Kenny hadn’t been involved with the running of a football club for over a decade and his last few jobs had ended badly. I feared he would be out of touch as football, and specifically the premier league, had evolved so much over the last 10-15 years.

The problem with bringing Kenny in on a temporary basis is that he only needed to do a marginally better job than Hodgson (not particularly difficult) and the fans would put pressure on the board to give him the job on a permanent basis. Even if the board wanted to go with another man it would have been very difficult for that manager as the fans would still have Kenny in the forefront of their minds. A few bad results and the fans would have turned.

As it turned out, our results were fantastic under Kenny’s management last year and it forced me to question my original stance. Results were good, football was good and the fans united. Good times and Kenny was at the centre of it. He was given the job permanently and began working with Comolli to reshape the squad. At the end of the summer I convinced myself that if not inspired by the incoming transfers, I was at least content. With the squad we had I thought we would put in a strong challenge for a top 4 finish but would fall a few points short as Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs had more match winners than us. At the very least I expected us to be in the race going into the final 5 games of the season and end the season with a very strong top 6 finish. But things have gone horribly wrong. Too be honest when I look out how poor Arsenal and Chelsea were in the first half of the season, and how poor Tottenham have been recently, 4th spot was there for the taking.

I could understand if we had a shaky start to the season followed by a strong finish but we were shaky at the beginning of the season and we have followed that up with a shambolic second half of the season. Over the last 17 games we have only won 4 and lost 10, only Wolves have been worse than us over the past 5 months. A run of a few games were we pick up a few poor results is totally understandable and expected, but I’m sorry, a manager on top of things would simply never allow 5 months of terrible form. With 2 games left of the season we are 16 points off 4th spot and 15 points off the relegation zone.

Whether you look at net spend or not, the truth is that we have had plenty of money available to reshape the squad, regardless of whether a large proportion of money has come from outgoing transfers. Kenny decided that bringing in British players who had spent most of the careers outside of the top 10 of English football was the way to catch up with the clubs ahead of us. But the truth is that those clubs we are trying to catch wouldn’t look twice at the likes of Carroll and Adam, but probably had an eye on top talent from around the world like Suarez. People laugh at Spurs for trying to sign players that top clubs are after but they signed Modric under the noses of many of the top clubs in Europe and went head to head with Man Utd with Bale. If we are to catch up with the clubs ahead of us we need to show a similarly gutsy approach like we did with Suarez, rather than the old school strategy we used last summer.

Winning trophies is elementary to football clubs and we should all enjoy the runs we have had this season and be thankful to Kenny for them. The cup campaigns have been excellent and it’s nice to get one, and possibly another, in the cabinet after a difficult few years. But the true measure of progress, or lack of it, is the league. Winning the League and FA Cups are like one night stands in that they give you great joy at the time but you know that really you’re looking for something else in the long term.

When things go so horribly wrong in the league people start looking closely at every questionable area. Did we predominately buy players already playing in the English game because Kenny doesn’t have much knowledge/interest of football outside of the British leagues? When Reina got sent off against Newcastle was Gerrard deciding who would play in which position and waving Kenny off the pitch a sign that the manager doesn’t command the authority required? Is Kenny’s mid season admission that he doesn’t know Henderson’s best position an indication that he hasn’t bought to a specific plan or system? Is it sign that Kenny is out of touch with modern day tactics that Gerrard continues to play as part of a central two despite most Liverpool and England managers realising it doesn’t get the best of our him or the team?

One thing that will count against Kenny in any end of season assessment is his unnecessarily aggressive and combative approach to the media. At times it has made me physically cringe and I just can’t understand it. I think it’s another sign that Kenny can’t cope with the requirements of the modern game. I actually think the media gave him an extended honeymoon period because of his history, but he has crumbled as soon as the faintest pressure has been applied. Too be honest he is has been looking a little rough and not in the best of health over the past 6 months so I hope he is O.K. Also I’m not sure why he decided to slate the reserve team he put out against Fulham when he has defended the first team that has lost on so many occasions when the match actually meant something.

The squad doesn’t need to be revolutionised, just a few high quality additions and better management. I think the 14 out and 9 in rumours are nonsense personally. We should be looking to keep most of the squad for next season but sign a couple of players who are of much better quality than the ones we already have. The players we bought last summer filled in gaps in our squad but barley improved the first team. Priorities must be a striker for Suarez to play off of, a wide midfielder with pace who can dribble, create and score, and a central midfielder to play alongside Lucus to dictate our attacking play from deep positions.

I just don’t think that Kenny is the man who can identify those players or bring the sort of progress we want over the next 3-5 years. And judging by his body language in the past few weeks I think John Henry has already told him that they will be looking to appoint a new man for next season. Knowing the way Kenny conducts himself and how much love he has for the club he won’t be kicking up a fuss and may even have offered his resignation. Some of the comments made about Kenny by fans have been pretty shameful. People shouldn’t be so quick to forget what this man did for this club as a player and as a manager, and everything he did and continues to do concerning Hillsborough. Just because you don’t think he is the right man for the job there is no need to personally insult him. He is a legend. And more than that, he is one of us. But I don’t think people should be castigated for coming on a forum and stating that they don’t think he is the right man for the job…….as long as they are respectful.

So if FSG decide that Kenny is not going to be our new manager next season how do the club go about appointing the right successor? The problem is that no one within FSG actually knows much about football and Ian Ayre is supposedly only responsible for the commercial side of the club. So who do FSG consult? Kenny? His last recommendation was Roy Hodgson so it might not be the way to go. FSG thought Comolli was the footballing oracle but sacked him a year later. Who knows how they would go about it.

From the domestic scene people have suggested Alan Pardew, Brendan Rodgers, Paul Lambert and Roberto Martinez but none of them have the experience to step into the Liverpool job. From all of those Lambert is probably the one to keep an eye on for the future but both Norwich and Swansea are the best clubs for Lambert and Rodgers to be at right now.

People say we haven’t got a chance of attracting a top manager but I disagree. We are still one of the biggest names in world football and there is more than a job on offer, this is a project to re-establish this great club at the top end of European football. If we are going to go after a top tier manager the names of Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti and Ottmar Hitzfeld spring to mind. If you had asked 5 years ago I would have said Mourinho. But despite being a top manager I’m just not sure he’s the right fit for us culturally but the other two would be good candidates.

If we’re looking for up and coming managers around Europe who have already tasted success and play an attractive style of football, Rudi Garcia (Lille), Frank de Boer (Ajax) and Jurgen Klopp (Dortmund) are all worth a look. Out of those 3 I think de Boer is the most interesting as I’m a fan of the route he took and what he’s has achieved so far. He spent a couple of years working on the staff at Ajax and Holland before taking the manager’s job at Ajax, where he has led them to consecutive titles after 7 years without one. Ajax also put up a strong showing in a difficult Champions League group (Real Madrid and Lyon) and only failed to qualify for the knockout stages on goal difference. They followed that up with a more than respectable display in the Europa League against Man Utd. There are loads of options to explore but it would be the board’s job to find the right man.

Regardless of the result on Saturday my personal opinion is that Kenny isn’t the right man to lead our mission to re-establish ourselves as one of the top clubs in Europe. Even though my opinion was formed much earlier in the season I have kept it to myself. It’s quite an emotive issue and I understand why a lot of posters have decided to keep their feelings to themselves and others have defended him to the hilt on the forum, and will do so regardless of questionable results, signings and decisions. If Kenny is not to be our manager next year he deserves great thanks and respect for taking on the job during a difficult time of transition and bringing us a trophy or two.

Cool Hand Luke » Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 pm wrote:When Kenny was put in temporary charge last January I thought it was the wrong move by the club. I didn’t see him as the man to realise the clubs vision of getting us back competing at the top tables of English and European football. Kenny hadn’t been involved with the running of a football club for over a decade and his last few jobs had ended badly. I feared he would be out of touch as football, and specifically the premier league, had evolved so much over the last 10-15 years.

The problem with bringing Kenny in on a temporary basis is that he only needed to do a marginally better job than Hodgson (not particularly difficult) and the fans would put pressure on the board to give him the job on a permanent basis. Even if the board wanted to go with another man it would have been very difficult for that manager as the fans would still have Kenny in the forefront of their minds. A few bad results and the fans would have turned.

As it turned out, our results were fantastic under Kenny’s management last year and it forced me to question my original stance. Results were good, football was good and the fans united. Good times and Kenny was at the centre of it. He was given the job permanently and began working with Comolli to reshape the squad. At the end of the summer I convinced myself that if not inspired by the incoming transfers, I was at least content. With the squad we had I thought we would put in a strong challenge for a top 4 finish but would fall a few points short as Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs had more match winners than us. At the very least I expected us to be in the race going into the final 5 games of the season and end the season with a very strong top 6 finish. But things have gone horribly wrong. Too be honest when I look out how poor Arsenal and Chelsea were in the first half of the season, and how poor Tottenham have been recently, 4th spot was there for the taking.

I could understand if we had a shaky start to the season followed by a strong finish but we were shaky at the beginning of the season and we have followed that up with a shambolic second half of the season. Over the last 17 games we have only won 4 and lost 10, only Wolves have been worse than us over the past 5 months. A run of a few games were we pick up a few poor results is totally understandable and expected, but I’m sorry, a manager on top of things would simply never allow 5 months of terrible form. With 2 games left of the season we are 16 points off 4th spot and 15 points off the relegation zone.

Whether you look at net spend or not, the truth is that we have had plenty of money available to reshape the squad, regardless of whether a large proportion of money has come from outgoing transfers. Kenny decided that bringing in British players who had spent most of the careers outside of the top 10 of English football was the way to catch up with the clubs ahead of us. But the truth is that those clubs we are trying to catch wouldn’t look twice at the likes of Carroll and Adam, but probably had an eye on top talent from around the world like Suarez. People laugh at Spurs for trying to sign players that top clubs are after but they signed Modric under the noses of many of the top clubs in Europe and went head to head with Man Utd with Bale. If we are to catch up with the clubs ahead of us we need to show a similarly gutsy approach like we did with Suarez, rather than the old school strategy we used last summer.

Winning trophies is elementary to football clubs and we should all enjoy the runs we have had this season and be thankful to Kenny for them. The cup campaigns have been excellent and it’s nice to get one, and possibly another, in the cabinet after a difficult few years. But the true measure of progress, or lack of it, is the league. Winning the League and FA Cups are like one night stands in that they give you great joy at the time but you know that really you’re looking for something else in the long term.

When things go so horribly wrong in the league people start looking closely at every questionable area. Did we predominately buy players already playing in the English game because Kenny doesn’t have much knowledge/interest of football outside of the British leagues? When Reina got sent off against Newcastle was Gerrard deciding who would play in which position and waving Kenny off the pitch a sign that the manager doesn’t command the authority required? Is Kenny’s mid season admission that he doesn’t know Henderson’s best position an indication that he hasn’t bought to a specific plan or system? Is it sign that Kenny is out of touch with modern day tactics that Gerrard continues to play as part of a central two despite most Liverpool and England managers realising it doesn’t get the best of our him or the team?

One thing that will count against Kenny in any end of season assessment is his unnecessarily aggressive and combative approach to the media. At times it has made me physically cringe and I just can’t understand it. I think it’s another sign that Kenny can’t cope with the requirements of the modern game. I actually think the media gave him an extended honeymoon period because of his history, but he has crumbled as soon as the faintest pressure has been applied. Too be honest he is has been looking a little rough and not in the best of health over the past 6 months so I hope he is O.K. Also I’m not sure why he decided to slate the reserve team he put out against Fulham when he has defended the first team that has lost on so many occasions when the match actually meant something.

The squad doesn’t need to be revolutionised, just a few high quality additions and better management. I think the 14 out and 9 in rumours are nonsense personally. We should be looking to keep most of the squad for next season but sign a couple of players who are of much better quality than the ones we already have. The players we bought last summer filled in gaps in our squad but barley improved the first team. Priorities must be a striker for Suarez to play off of, a wide midfielder with pace who can dribble, create and score, and a central midfielder to play alongside Lucus to dictate our attacking play from deep positions.

I just don’t think that Kenny is the man who can identify those players or bring the sort of progress we want over the next 3-5 years. And judging by his body language in the past few weeks I think John Henry has already told him that they will be looking to appoint a new man for next season. Knowing the way Kenny conducts himself and how much love he has for the club he won’t be kicking up a fuss and may even have offered his resignation. Some of the comments made about Kenny by fans have been pretty shameful. People shouldn’t be so quick to forget what this man did for this club as a player and as a manager, and everything he did and continues to do concerning Hillsborough. Just because you don’t think he is the right man for the job there is no need to personally insult him. He is a legend. And more than that, he is one of us. But I don’t think people should be castigated for coming on a forum and stating that they don’t think he is the right man for the job…….as long as they are respectful.

So if FSG decide that Kenny is not going to be our new manager next season how do the club go about appointing the right successor? The problem is that no one within FSG actually knows much about football and Ian Ayre is supposedly only responsible for the commercial side of the club. So who do FSG consult? Kenny? His last recommendation was Roy Hodgson so it might not be the way to go. FSG thought Comolli was the footballing oracle but sacked him a year later. Who knows how they would go about it.

From the domestic scene people have suggested Alan Pardew, Brendan Rodgers, Paul Lambert and Roberto Martinez but none of them have the experience to step into the Liverpool job. From all of those Lambert is probably the one to keep an eye on for the future but both Norwich and Swansea are the best clubs for Lambert and Rodgers to be at right now.

People say we haven’t got a chance of attracting a top manager but I disagree. We are still one of the biggest names in world football and there is more than a job on offer, this is a project to re-establish this great club at the top end of European football. If we are going to go after a top tier manager the names of Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti and Ottmar Hitzfeld spring to mind. If you had asked 5 years ago I would have said Mourinho. But despite being a top manager I’m just not sure he’s the right fit for us culturally but the other two would be good candidates.

If we’re looking for up and coming managers around Europe who have already tasted success and play an attractive style of football, Rudi Garcia (Lille), Frank de Boer (Ajax) and Jurgen Klopp (Dortmund) are all worth a look. Out of those 3 I think de Boer is the most interesting as I’m a fan of the route he took and what he’s has achieved so far. He spent a couple of years working on the staff at Ajax and Holland before taking the manager’s job at Ajax, where he has led them to consecutive titles after 7 years without one. Ajax also put up a strong showing in a difficult Champions League group (Real Madrid and Lyon) and only failed to qualify for the knockout stages on goal difference. They followed that up with a more than respectable display in the Europa League against Man Utd. There are loads of options to explore but it would be the board’s job to find the right man.

Regardless of the result on Saturday my personal opinion is that Kenny isn’t the right man to lead our mission to re-establish ourselves as one of the top clubs in Europe. Even though my opinion was formed much earlier in the season I have kept it to myself. It’s quite an emotive issue and I understand why a lot of posters have decided to keep their feelings to themselves and others have defended him to the hilt on the forum, and will do so regardless of questionable results, signings and decisions. If Kenny is not to be our manager next year he deserves great thanks and respect for taking on the job during a difficult time of transition and bringing us a trophy or two.

Reg » Fri May 04, 2012 11:38 am wrote:Trust the stalker to like that! RBG was on the sauce I suspect last night. 'I don't do fkg daft' 

tubby » Fri May 04, 2012 1:59 pm wrote:Using ones place of birth as the basis of whether a fan is genuine is a ***** argument RBG and tbh it's a bit low. What I find most amusing is I never saw any such blind loyalty when Rafa was on the rocks.

Greavesie » Thu May 03, 2012 10:22 pm wrote:

parchpea » Thu May 03, 2012 7:52 pm wrote:Club went down the pan after the Rafa rant when the wheels came off and we ended up second.

stopped here

You attribute second as a bad thing?

Fook me people attach far too much significance to that nothing conference