Liverpool FC Forum

stmichael » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:45 pm wrote:should have secured 4th "with ease"? honestly i give up 

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I could understand if someone thought we should have challenged a lot harder for top 4.  But to suggest we should have secured it with ease is ridiculous.

maypaxvobiscum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:35 am wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:51 pm wrote:The case being :
1,if our patience is rewarded and Kenny gets the team playing consistently and subsequently  reaps the rewards .
2, if the dissenters are proved right and Liverpool constantly struggle under Dalglish culminating in his removal .

So based on the assumption we all love the club unremittingly ......WHICH SET OF FANS WOULD FEEL BETTER ?

No disrespect RBG, but that's an awfully silly question, or perhaps I misunderstood it? it definitely isn't about which set of fans are correct. We just want to see the club succeed and going by recent results (2 wins in 11 games), it's just not happening.

So sacking a manager after one full season is the right path to success? What if this season is a one off and we drastically improve next season, would fans change their opinion? How can we strive for success when we don't give ourselves time and patience? Yes we have been abysmal in the league, but we have won a trophy and we might win another one so doesn't this show some improvement or at least tell us where we are heading? I see where RBG is coming from

heimdall » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:06 pm wrote:

stmichael » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:51 am wrote:under the current demands of some fans, shankly wouldn't have lasted five minutes at this club.

I completely disagree, didn't Liverpool improve every year under his management, I'm sure all fans would have been happy with that. You can't compare Daglish with Shankly the first took over a team just outside the top 4 and have taken us backwards in a season where we should have secured 4th spot with ease, the other rebuilt a team languishing in the 2nd division.

Your talking out of your @rse lad, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea are ahead of us in terms of quality in the league, even if we invested heavily we still need time to have the same quality as those 3. Our expectation is to challenge for top 4 not finish at 4th place, just challenge it and we did, but our challenge ended in Beg of March, so we try harder next year

When we sacked Rafa I thought it was a big mistake.  It was his first really bad season.  I believed Rafa could have turned it around.  But thats in the past now. 

Lets not make the same mistake again and sack a manager only to be left wondering what might have been. 

The league form we showed at the end of last season was brilliant, some of the best football ive seen from us in years.  This year we've won the Carling Cup.  We're in the semi's of the FA Cup.  Our league form this season wasn't awful until the last 11 games... 

Lets give Kenny a chance to turn it around.

id never thought we'd secure 4th with ease but definately thought we would at least be still in the hunt for it.
instead we were realistically out of contention at christmas which all at the club should be disapointed with.failure to add a striker in january also contributed to it imo,we could have signed someone who could inject a spark into the side and lift morale with a few goals but instead we persisted with what was failing us since the start of the season in the hope they would repay the faith shown in them and that was a bigger gamble than signing a new striker.
the longer we went struggling to win the more the players confidence dropped and have kept escalating to the point they are at now.
we need to address some issues over the summer and along with some better aquisitions we have to mount a better and  more sustained challenge next season.
kennys position shouldnt even be considered till at least christmas and judge him then on how we have progressed and if its similar to this campaign then a decision has to be made but not before then.
the cup win was nice and its great to have a trophy in the bag and its the games fault that it isnt as prestigious as it was 20 years ago not ours.its another league cup to add to the ones we already have just like the cl we won to bring our haul in europe to 5 even though the first 4 were under a completely different format and no one belittles them so most fans should be proud we won it even if it was scrappy.
we are an investment now and thats how we will be run and i believe fsg to be shrewd business people who will eventually get us there while moving us forward as a club.for that investment to pay off we need to be attractive to sponsors and be competing on domestic and european levels.to do that they will need to in turn invest in a stadium and the team and i think they will deliver both in time and put us back up to where we should be competing for the league and mixing it up with europes best.
the last  2 years we won nowt and still finished 7th so this season we have won a cup,qualified for europe and it isnt going to make much difference now if we finish 7th again this year so we pick it up correct a few issues and go again in august with a new approach.i agree that we have seen some shocking performances and results this year but we have also seen us play some exquisite stuff and that shows that we(A) can do it and (B) the platform is there.if all involved can learn from this season and the management a little better in the transfer market then we will get it together for next season and improve.if by christmas we are still similar to what we are now then its probably clear what the next major change will be.
under all that doom and gloom id completely forgot we still have an F.A cup to play for and winning 2 cups along with a 7th place finish would be a nice way to end the season and an improvement on the last 2 in my book.

heimdall » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:06 pm wrote:

stmichael » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:51 am wrote:under the current demands of some fans, shankly wouldn't have lasted five minutes at this club.

I completely disagree, didn't Liverpool improve every year under his management, I'm sure all fans would have been happy with that. You can't compare Daglish with Shankly the first took over a team just outside the top 4 and have taken us backwards in a season where we should have secured 4th spot with ease, the other rebuilt a team languishing in the 2nd division.

no we didnt improve every year under shankly`s management, far from it, we went through peaks and troughs.
it took shankly 2 and a half seasons to get us out of the second division, then he moulded us into a side that won 2 titles, the f.a cup and also lost in a european cup semi final and lost a european cup winners cup final in the space of 3 years, after that we had quite a few wilderness years where we finished around 5th and made some high profile mistakes in the transfer market (tony hately, alun evans...even toshack didnt look that good until keegan arrived, he looked very similar to how carroll does now, he looked good at times but only scored 5 league goals in his first season)
but in those wilderness years shankly was gradually replacing the old guard, ray clemence came in for tommy lawrence, steve heighway eventually replaced peter thompson, the likes of emlyn hughes and tommy smith began to command the centre of the defence like ron yeats did, then when the jewel in the crown keegan arrived everything just clicked into place.
about 7 or 8 of the 11 that won our first european cup in 1977 were shankly signings from the early 70`s, and the likes of john toshack, david fairclough and phil thompson sitting on the bench in rome were shankly signings too, shankly`s great legacy was that unlike a lot of other greats like busby, revie and clough when shankly retired he left his successor a great team in the making.
those fans in the 60`s saw some tough times when we were well off the pace, just 3 years after winning the title liverpool were beaten 4-1 at anfield by manchester united and fans had to watch while united won the european cup and everton won the league, they had to watch while minnows at the time like watford knocked us out of the f.a cup but they didnt turn on shankly, if anything they backed him even more, they had total faith in him.
thats why those pictures of shankly walking around anfield in 73 after winning the title again are so special, he`s thanking the crowd for sticking by him through thick and thin and the crowd are thanking him for giving them a club they can be proud of.
they really were magnificent fans back then, the loudest in the country if not europe, the most sporting and the most loyal.
those fans chose ynwa as their anthem because that was their philosophy, they werent just empty words that they were singing.

At last some bloody sensible posts, well done.

maypaxvobiscum » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:35 am wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:51 pm wrote:The case being :
1,if our patience is rewarded and Kenny gets the team playing consistently and subsequently  reaps the rewards .
2, if the dissenters are proved right and Liverpool constantly struggle under Dalglish culminating in his removal .

So based on the assumption we all love the club unremittingly ......WHICH SET OF FANS WOULD FEEL BETTER ?

No disrespect RBG, but that's an awfully silly question, or perhaps I misunderstood it? it definitely isn't about which set of fans are correct. We just want to see the club succeed and going by recent results (2 wins in 11 games), it's just not happening.

Its a question that needs answering though mate ,I mean if you genuinely love the club and you believe question 2 is the likely outcome , then being proven correct would be tinged with a certain degree of heartache ,I am right aren't I ?

The question only becomes silly when it is dismissed rather than proffering a candid reply .

ferguson had a nightmare when he first went to united. they constantly finished mid table and his fa cup win in 1990 essentially saved his job.

it's a sad state of affairs what money has done to the game whereby nowadays nearly every manager would rather finish 4th than actually win anything. people like o'neill and redknapp spend all season trying to qualify for europe and then once in it they can't wait to get out of it.

the likes of henderson and carroll have only recently signed for the club and have already got a winners medal and could get another one this season. in the future do you really think they'll be telling their kids and grandkids how many times they finished 4th?

I'm sticking with Kenny. Won't give up on him. this is a tough period for us under him, just show him support. At least give him another season. If any of you guys think that Kenny's happy with our players and situations right now... i dunno what to say. Just think that maybe his excuses lately as a part of keeping our problems from the public especially the media. Maybe he's sacrificing his own reputation for the sake of the club. Who knows...be positive and give him support is all that we can do right now.

I don't think Kenny's reputation will ever be affected even if he is replaced or walks this summer. 
He took on the job when no one else wanted it, unified the club again and has us back competing for trophies.

Its not going brilliantly at the moment but im a lot happier than I was in Jan 2011

Instead of moaning back the club from owners down to the tealady. You should be PROUD to support the GREATEST FOOTBALL CLUB in the world. FOOK the media we will come good. Back kenny you know it makes sense

There's a lot of hypocrisy being thrown about in here at the moment, I see. Not surprised to see Hiemdall talking the same sh*te either.

I voted no. We never sacked Rafa after a torrid first season in the league (I wish we'd his 07-08 team now, because we'd absolutely f*cking p*ss this league at the moment with it), and we shouldn't start with Kenny. Only Owl-Face deserves to be accoladed with that dishonourable award of a half-season wonder, never mind one season. Kenny deserves the time to correct any mistakes he's made, plus assemble the rest of the team he actually wants. I think we'll get there. He does know how to win things, you know.

metalhead » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:25 pm wrote:

heimdall » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:06 pm wrote:

stmichael » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:51 am wrote:under the current demands of some fans, shankly wouldn't have lasted five minutes at this club.

I completely disagree, didn't Liverpool improve every year under his management, I'm sure all fans would have been happy with that. You can't compare Daglish with Shankly the first took over a team just outside the top 4 and have taken us backwards in a season where we should have secured 4th spot with ease, the other rebuilt a team languishing in the 2nd division.

Your talking out of your @rse lad, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea are ahead of us in terms of quality in the league, even if we invested heavily we still need time to have the same quality as those 3. Our expectation is to challenge for top 4 not finish at 4th place, just challenge it and we did, but our challenge ended in Beg of March, so we try harder next year

Spurs yes, they are miles in front of us, but until the last few weeks both Chelsea and Arsenal have been incredibly poor, almost worse than us, and if we'd had a natural goal scorer we would have been way ahead of them in the league so yes I honestly think that this year we should have gotten 4th place with ease but then I still have ambitions for this club and haven't yet accepted mid table obscurity and the occasional 2nd rate cup as reward for my support. I find it rather sad that so many of you have.

heimdall » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:18 pm wrote:
Spurs yes, they are miles in front of us, but until the last few weeks both Chelsea and Arsenal have been incredibly poor, almost worse than us, and if we'd had a natural goal scorer we would have been way ahead of them in the league so yes I honestly think that this year we should have gotten 4th place with ease but then I still have ambitions for this club and haven't yet accepted mid table obscurity and the occasional 2nd rate cup as reward for my support. I find it rather sad that so many of you have.

i find it ever sadder that you expect trophies as a reward for honouring the club with your support.
good job 95% of the fans in this country dont look at it the same way as you do or there would be about 4 teams in the league, what about those hundreds of thousands of fans up and down the country that support the teams in the lower divisions? what if they expected trophies as a reward?