Kenny Departs

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 7_Kewell » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:29 pm

LFC2007 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:57 pm wrote:
tubby » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:09 pm wrote:LFC2007 if you disagree with his points then tell us why? No use replying with 1 liners of pictures of f*cking sesame street characters mate. Kewell is making an attempt to explain why he feels how he does so as a courtesy you can at least afford him the same level of respect.


Sometimes, mate, I just can't be a'rsed trying to reason with people who are barely open to reason themselves. You can only learn if you are prepared to challenge your own views, but posters like kewell only show an interest in trying to confirm their views, as evidenced by the posts he has made in this thread and in countless others. Anything that goes against his theory that Kenny is past it gets short shrift, so entrenched are his views about the manager.

If he was such a reasonable poster, then it begs being asked why it is he is so dead set against Kenny and was (keen as he is to remind us) so dead set against his appointment to begin with, yet totally open to the appointment of Roy Hodgson, a man who couldn't even manage to win a single one of those "Mickey Mouse" trophies he likes to refer to at any time over the course of his long managerial career. His opinions may be sincere, but it doesn't mean they are sensible.

The reason kewell dwells on Kenny's time at Newcastle and Celtic is because that's where he finds justification for his views. He'd have you believe that those experiences prove beyond doubt that Kenny isn't capable of managing in the modern era, despite the fact that Kenny won the title with Blackburn less than two years prior to taking the Newcastle job. Likewise, according to kewell, all the success Kenny had with us as manager in the late 80s does little to nothing to inform us about Kenny ability to manager a team in the modern era, despite the fundamental principles of the game being no different back then to what they are today. A balanced poster would address precisely these points, but he isn't and he doesn't.

If some significant aspects of the game have changed, and they undoubtedly have, then do a better job of explaining why you believe Kenny is so obviously incapable of adapting to those changes as to make it futile for the club to persist with him, than simply giving a partial account of his previous managerial record or his present spell as manager (Andy Carroll, Jordan Henderson, disaster, disaster, disaster, tends to be the gist of it).

If Kenny has made some serious mistakes in the transfer market, and I believe he has, as well as having some notable successes, then explain your reasons for believing with such certainty that he cannot rectify those mistakes in future transfer windows. 

Moreover, explain why, if the manager is so incapable of ever managing us to success in the modern era, he managed to get the team playing to a top four standard at the back end of last season, and why it is not possible for him to get the team performing to a similar standard next season.

If people like kewell want to be treated seriously, then they could start by answer some of these questions.

I’m stuck to my own views because I’ve seen little to change them.

Kenny’s managerial pattern at Liverpool is reflective of his time at his previous two clubs.
Poor league performance followed by a cup run.

The game has changed leaps and bounds over the last 20 years. The influx of foreign players, managers and coaches to the English game has kept its fast and physical nature, but today it’s also much more technical. Opposition managers change their formation, shape, approach constantly during a match and premier league managers need to be dynamic to outwit their opponent.

Kenny doesn’t do this... he picks a team, a formation and sticks with it. That’s why we dominate games and then get dicked on - the opposition change their shape and exploit our weaknesses.

I was extremely impressed last season, but there was no pressure. Kenny had no expectation on his shoulders and i think he works better when the pressure is off. This season it’s different...the media, the fans and the board EXPECT more...Kenny hasn’t reacted well and you can see it.
Can Kenny turn it around?  Yes....but he needs to go back to basics, face up to the colossal mistakes he’s made, and try again.
“You cannot transfer the heart and soul of Liverpool Football Club, although I am sure there are many clubs who would like to buy it.”
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Postby stmichael » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:58 pm

all in all i remember saying on here at the time that kenny was appointed that i was pleased and yet apprehensive at the same time. why? because of our fanbase. despite the fact that we were essentially going through a regrouping phase i said that as soon as we had a bad run the fans would turn on kenny in the same way they turned on houllier and rafa.

it's actually got to the stage where people are seriously comparing kenny to hodgson. one guy who lives and breathes this club to another guy who was a stain on this great club. ok kenny has got things wrong but as far as i'm concerned, anyone who wants him out can sod off and support somebody else.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:19 pm

7_Kewell » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:22 pm wrote:the league cup always has, and always will, be a micky mouse cup. It's rare that any of the top 4 take it seriously and for us to paper over the cracks with it is kidding ourselves that we've made progress. Benny's obsessed with some secret agenda going on, but it's nonsense...some of us just arn't convinced that our club is heading in the right direction  on the pitch, and that's been the case for a few years now.

If Kenny turns this around, then great. But my fear is a league cup will be accepted as success. My fear is, if we play like this next season, we'll be battling relegation


Who believes that the league cup is the be all and end all regarding our ambitions? Name and shame these idiots because anyone who is satisfied winning a domestic trophy and would accept relegation is a raving Fu*king loonatic!
Whether or not any of the top 4 take it seriously is none of our concern, but remember how City were absolutely gutted when we knocked them out.
We all want success, but dont demean a piece of silverware to bolster your point that people are satisfied with whats going on
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Postby 7_Kewell » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:28 am

stmichael » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:58 pm wrote:all in all i remember saying on here at the time that kenny was appointed that i was pleased and yet apprehensive at the same time. why? because of our fanbase. despite the fact that we were essentially going through a regrouping phase i said that as soon as we had a bad run the fans would turn on kenny in the same way they turned on houllier and rafa.

it's actually got to the stage where people are seriously comparing kenny to hodgson. one guy who lives and breathes this club to another guy who was a stain on this great club. ok kenny has got things wrong but as far as i'm concerned, anyone who wants him out can sod off and support somebody else.


we have one of the largest fanbases in the world, mate. You're always going to get a broad range of opinions when your side is doing badly. However, i've yet to see anyone demand Kenny's immediate sacking, or anyone claiming life would have been better under Roy.

However, fans have every right to question the direction that the club is heading.
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Postby killerp » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:21 am

I think Kenny has done the job he was brought in to do. He has stabilised the ship from sinking.  Having said that I can't see what he offers for next season without massive changes again this summer. 4-5 quality players would cost us almost half way to a new stadium going by the hyper inflated prices these days. I would define quality as no less than costing 30 million pounds, not being English or wearing a *****.g ponytail, possessing individual quality.

If we were to choose to build a new stadium imagine following the current lineup for the next 6-7 years without any major investment minus the veteran players. 

:no

My worst fear is being realised, that we are the new addition to the midtable on a seemingly permanent basis.

Who knows maybe if this trend continues for the next few years, maybe we fans will just accept mediocrity & the odd Carling cup.
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Postby Octsky » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:26 am

actually throughout the whole season did we play badly for most of the season?
we lost to a last min RVP goal that started our downfall, but we played well that game.

we played poorly vs Sunderland, Bolton and Wigan. beside that we played ok /good.
we hit the post most in the league, we lost Suaruez for nearly a quarter of a season to suspension.
we lost Gerrard most of half of the season. we missed half of our penalties. with a bit of luck, we wont be 7th.

next season, either cut loss on Carroll or whether we need to sign a prolific forward and it be 4th and above
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Postby D___C » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:37 am

Octsky » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:26 am wrote:actually throughout the whole season did we play badly for most of the season?
we lost to a last min RVP goal that started our downfall, but we played well that game.

we played poorly vs Sunderland, Bolton and Wigan. beside that we played ok /good.
we hit the post most in the league, we lost Suaruez for nearly a quarter of a season to suspension.
we lost Gerrard most of half of the season. we missed half of our penalties. with a bit of luck, we wont be 7th.

next season, either cut loss on Carroll or whether we need to sign a prolific forward and it be 4th and above


We've done ok in patches.. but ultimately its the lack of quality in personnel that has cost us. That game against Arsenal, imagine we had a quality #9... Torres, Fowler, Rush, Owen (yes he wore 10), Aldridge... we almost certainly would have won that game comfortably, and you can apply that to umpteen games this season. Its partly the reason i bang on about the Carroll signing and the catastrophic effect it had, because its small margins... had we signed that one quality forward we would be looking at a very different season. Take Rooney out of Man U, Van Persie out of Arsenal, Drogba out of Chelsea, Aguero out of Man City... you can chop a good 15-20 points off their season. We are not demanding we sign at player from the very very top bracket (would be nice tho)... a good forward would be a start.

I dont want Kenny sacked, because his methods work (look at how we played last season.. the three games where we hit 13 goals AND played fluid attacking football is arguably the best ive seen us play in my 20 years as a fan)... its getting that one crucial signing right, the finisher, the player that compliments Luis Suarez (one of the best creative forwards in the world). Of course the other position that he needs to get right is a central midfield playmaker (a passer).. we will have Lucas back next season, the ball winner who then gives it to the playmaker which we dont have.. we havent come remotely near replacing Alonso. We bought Aquilani, Merelies, Adam.. almost a steady decline in quality... Henderson certainly doesnt look anywhere near good enough.


We are being linked with Matias Suarez (Commoli watched him apparently).. a mobile finisher to partner Luis. I know nothing about him, but whoever is brought in it is obviously crucial that hes quality. We cannot afford to make another poor batch of signings as that certainly will see changes made.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:29 am

D___C » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:37 am wrote:
Octsky » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:26 am wrote:actually throughout the whole season did we play badly for most of the season?
we lost to a last min RVP goal that started our downfall, but we played well that game.

we played poorly vs Sunderland, Bolton and Wigan. beside that we played ok /good.
we hit the post most in the league, we lost Suaruez for nearly a quarter of a season to suspension.
we lost Gerrard most of half of the season. we missed half of our penalties. with a bit of luck, we wont be 7th.

next season, either cut loss on Carroll or whether we need to sign a prolific forward and it be 4th and above


We've done ok in patches.. but ultimately its the lack of quality in personnel that has cost us. That game against Arsenal, imagine we had a quality #9... Torres, Fowler, Rush, Owen (yes he wore 10), Aldridge... we almost certainly would have won that game comfortably, and you can apply that to umpteen games this season. Its partly the reason i bang on about the Carroll signing and the catastrophic effect it had, because its small margins... had we signed that one quality forward we would be looking at a very different season. Take Rooney out of Man U, Van Persie out of Arsenal, Drogba out of Chelsea, Aguero out of Man City... you can chop a good 15-20 points off their season. We are not demanding we sign at player from the very very top bracket (would be nice tho)... a good forward would be a start.

I dont want Kenny sacked, because his methods work (look at how we played last season.. the three games where we hit 13 goals AND played fluid attacking football is arguably the best ive seen us play in my 20 years as a fan)... its getting that one crucial signing right, the finisher, the player that compliments Luis Suarez (one of the best creative forwards in the world). Of course the other position that he needs to get right is a central midfield playmaker (a passer).. we will have Lucas back next season, the ball winner who then gives it to the playmaker which we dont have.. we havent come remotely near replacing Alonso. We bought Aquilani, Merelies, Adam.. almost a steady decline in quality... Henderson certainly doesnt look anywhere near good enough.


We are being linked with Matias Suarez (Commoli watched him apparently).. a mobile finisher to partner Luis. I know nothing about him, but whoever is brought in it is obviously crucial that hes quality. We cannot afford to make another poor batch of signings as that certainly will see changes made.


You are beyond obsessive and sooooo Fu*king boring.
What do you do in the real world because on here you are a compulsive, monotonous, repetative tw@t?
How many times are you going to tell us you hate Carroll? How many ways are you going to say the same thing? How many posts with the same droning sh'it? Is the answer blowing in the wind, because you are talking through your ar'se?
Give it a rest. Carroll is staying, as is KK (so glad you dont want him sacked now).
If you are trying to wear us down with your constant brain-numbing message so that we will all protest and start a lynch mob for Carrolls head, forget it. Most of the people I speak to are not particularly impressed with him, but they agree theres has been improvement and believe he should be starting every game. Your evil attempt to brainwash us isnt working so desist and go and tidy the kitchen, or something...
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Postby D___C » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:36 am

:laugh: .. calm down dear (don't read any newspaper reports or listen to phone ins lampooning the craptastic Carroll.. that blood pressure will only go through the roof)  :veryangry


:no
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Postby Thommo's perm » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:46 am

D___C » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:36 am wrote::laugh: .. calm down dear (don't read any newspaper reports or listen to phone ins lampooning the craptastic Carroll.. that blood pressure will only go through the roof)  :veryangry


:no


:laugh:
No danger babe. Calm as a cucumber I am.
Why would I be interested in sheep who phone in to moan? A very feminine activity dont you think?
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Postby jacdaniel » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:51 am

Im so torn at the moment.  On the one hand I'm thinking positive.  Kenny  took over when we were an absolute joke, sitting in 12th place in the league, our star striker had just left and relegation seemed like a possibility at the time.

In a short space of time he really turned it around and unified the club.  His first full season and he has won a trophy, we're qualified for Europe at least and he has us in the semi final of FA Cup.  Not bad considering the Suarez ban, the lucas injury and Gerrard's fitness issues.

But on the other hand our league form is completely dreadful and unacceptable.   We haven't spent as much as the media are making out but we shouldnt be looking over our shoulder for Swansea, Sunderland and Everton results.

I want Kenny to get some more time but I doubt he will unless we win the FA Cup and at least win a few of our next league games
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Postby maguskwt » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:00 pm

I can't be arsed about participating in this gang war again... All I want is for LFC to win and we're not winning. We're losing. And that pisses me off.

Btw how come nobody mentions about Kenny not having an assistant manager? I think he needs one. Steve Clarke is a first team coach...
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Postby jacdaniel » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:07 pm

maguskwt » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:00 pm wrote:I can't be arsed about participating in this gang war again... All I want is for LFC to win and we're not winning. We're losing. And that pisses me off.

Btw how come nobody mentions about Kenny not having an assistant manager? I think he needs one. Steve Clarke is a first team coach...


Is Steve Clarke not assistant and Kevin Keen coach?
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Postby maguskwt » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:37 pm

jacdaniel » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:07 pm wrote:
maguskwt » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:00 pm wrote:I can't be arsed about participating in this gang war again... All I want is for LFC to win and we're not winning. We're losing. And that pisses me off.

Btw how come nobody mentions about Kenny not having an assistant manager? I think he needs one. Steve Clarke is a first team coach...


Is Steve Clarke not assistant and Kevin Keen coach?


Hmmm it seems like he is... we hired him as first team coach though...
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Postby metalhead » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:15 pm

Ben Smith from the time thinks Kenny will be here next season, which is great to be honest and Smith thinks we won't go on a spending spree this time and some of the players we bought last season will leave in the summer.

He is usually right 95% of the time
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