Liverpool FC Forum

by **kartiek** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:59 pm

7_Kewell wrote:I don't think any serious 'pool fan is asking for Kenny's head. Personally, i would give him until Christmas. Which begs the question...just how long would everyone else give him?

I would give him another season easily, but I wouldn't give him or DC any of the owner's money. I'm sorry but after the sheer wastage of spending of the summer, I just cannot agree that he has a great sense in picking out players anymore. Someone else has to do this for him imo. With good personnel, I think Kenny will come good.

by **kartiek** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:12 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:you are living in la la land if you think dalglish or any manager is going to turn things around in a year.
mourinho is the last manager i`d have at anfield, all that special one bollux is the antithesis of what this club is all about.

the biggest bug bear is Kenny's signings...they're cr@p!

We haven't improved, instead we've gone backwards

is suarez cr@p? enrique? bellamy? coates?
adam we signed for about £6m, thats a decent bit of business imo and he`s a decent squad player.
so i guess your talking about henderson, downing and carroll?
carroll and henderson are young players who will come good imo and downing has been dissappointing at times this season but even he was man of the match in a cup final.
to say we have gone backwards when we`ve just won our first trophy in 6 years and have beaten man city, man united, chelsea and arsenal this season is ludicrous.

Suarez, Enrique and Bellamy are fine...but Coates? Who knows, he's vanished since he joined.

As for Adam, Carroll, Henderson and Downing...they have been so, so poor that the team has suffered a collapse in form. All of them are average mid table players who wouldn't get onto the BENCH of Kenny's title winning side of the 1980s...let alone get a regular place, week in, week out.

They are, quite frankly, players who i expect to see at Newcastle...

henderson is 21 and carroll turned 22 days after we signed him mate, i think you need to be realistic, the likes of comoli and our owners spoke about buying young players with their best years ahead of them because of all that moneyball malarky.
do you expect players of that age to be the finished article?
in the early 80`s when we brought the likes of rush, whelan, lee and craig johnston into the side the likes of graeme souness, phil neal, kenny dalglish etc stood up to be counted and helped the lads settle, if you put a 21 year old ian rush or sammy lee in this team we have now they`d struggle for form too, all young players do.
to say carroll and henderson are poor signings at the start of their careers is nuts.

This whole moneyball argument is such a load of :censored:

!

First things first, football is not baseball. It's not a game about purely individual talent, it's a game about team work. Money ball and statistics don't always work/ tell the full picture.

If you're thinking of buying young talented players and making champions out of them, and if that's what you call Moneyball, then Arsene Wenger has been doing it for quite some time now so stop associating DC only with moneyball.

And finally, how is spending 20 million pounds on an unproven 21 year old lad moneyball? I mean, do you honestly think Henderson is ever going to cost above 20 million + inflation in his career ever? Fact is, he'll never cost that much.

If there was any point in getting younger, unproven players, it was that they come cheap, and have a huge appreciation in their net worth. Clearly we've failed in both a) getting them cheap, and b) getting an actual talent.

Moneyball my a*se

by **7_Kewell** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:15 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:henderson is 21 and carroll turned 22 days after we signed him mate, i think you need to be realistic, the likes of comoli and our owners spoke about buying young players with their best years ahead of them because of all that moneyball malarky.
do you expect players of that age to be the finished article?
in the early 80`s when we brought the likes of rush, whelan, lee and craig johnston into the side the likes of graeme souness, phil neal, kenny dalglish etc stood up to be counted and helped the lads settle, if you put a 21 year old ian rush or sammy lee in this team we have now they`d struggle for form too, all young players do.
to say carroll and henderson are poor signings at the start of their careers is nuts.

I'm all for buying youth, but not when they cost 50+ million. For that money you should get the finished article, like Juan Mata (20 million) or Sergio Aguero (33 million)

To spend that cash on unproven lads at the very start of their careers is nuts...

by **Penguins** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:51 pm

I just find it bemusing that everything that was used to beat Rafa with is now ok when Kenny has done exactly that..

Rafa points why he should had left by most people:
1. He was a cup manager, only winning the CL and Fa cup and reaching the semis in the cl but never gettting us to the league title, always falling short being satisfied finsihing in the CL places.
2. He brought Keane and Aqualiani to the team who were poor buys according to most. He did although buy Reina, Alonso, Torres, Masch, Lucas, Agger, Skrtel...
3. We finished 7th once which made him miss qualifing us for the CL once in his 6 years while having the Vermin as owners for almost the entire time and having to sell to buy in his last 2 seasons.
4. Rafa was so damn predictable making no subs until the 70 th minute no matter what.
5. Although we won alot his tactics wasn't that pleasing to the eye.

Lets look at Kenny after 1 and a half season.
1. Well, if Rafa was a cup manager what is now this then?
Carling cup is all of a sudden good enough??`
Well, at least the manager doesn't have to try and win the CL...
2. He bought Caroll ,Henderson, Adam, Downing for 80 million and there are no Torres, Alonso, Mash etc even to weigh it up.
3.Sure it was caotic when he arrived but he never had to deal with the Vermin as owners, he was fully backed by the new owners and still 7th 2 years in a row. 1st half year doesn't count but no improvement in the league at all after that outlay?
4. Subs? Be glad if there are any in the 70th minute
5. Negative tactics you say? How about never going for that attacking sub in the 60 th minute.

And no, I don't want Kenny to be sacked, but ffs try to look at it without those rose tinted glasses.
I actually think Kenny is a good man manager, but he is awful in the market and poor tactically.
And before you know it is 25 years until we have won the league...
I am just wondering how this can be ok now, when it was totally unacceptable under Rafa?

Please explain to me what Kenny is doing better than Rafa did...
It sure isn't the league, or the cups, or in the market, or tactically...

by **Kerry07** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:00 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:So Hodgson is now the barometer? The club's worst post war manager, a clown who was here for 4 months, is now being compared to Kenny.

To use the worst manager in 60 years as a comparison is a terrible indictment on Kenny. Well done Kenny, you are better than arguably the worst manager the club has ever had. Completely illegitimate comparison that doesnt make Kenny look in any way better.

Kenny Dalglish took over Rafa's team (minus Mascherano, plus Meireles).. Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Gerrard, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Torres, Maxi... hence any legitimate comparison is with Rafa and the positon when he left.

Rafa left in June 2010.. in which we finished 7th with 63pts from 38 games. We stand to finish in the same position with 57pts, and a fortune spent.

of course he is the barometer because that is dalglish`s starting point, dalglish inherited the team from the worst manager this club has had for 60 years.
when ferguson inherited united from atkinson were the united fans asking why they werent playing like busby`s best, law and charlton side within a year? no, because they were realistic, ferguson was there four years without winning anything before they put up the ta-ra fergie not good enough banners.
dalglish inherited `rafa`s team` that won only 1 away game in 6 months, got outplayed and beaten at home by reading in the f.a cup, got humiliated 2-0 by a portsmouth side made up of loan signings, journeymen pro`s and any players left that they couldnt sell because no other club wanted them, infact that portsmouth team hadnt even been paid in 3 months when they played us off the park.
this club has been in a tailspin for 2 seasons under both rafa`s and hodgsons watch, kenny is picking up the pieces but it doesnt happen overnight.

yes.. and that team he inherited was Rafa's team (minus Mascherano, plus Meireles).. Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Gerrard, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Torres, Maxi.

The comparison now is with Rafa the day he left.

Are we any further forward?
league wise? no
player wise? no

What then?

As regards the club being in a tailspin.. agree.. and that was under Statler and Waldorf who made Rafas job impossible.. they have both gone.. Kenny has avoided them, been given 100m.. and still we are no further forward league wise, and player wise (we are definitely worse in the latter).

On the League Cup.. fantastic..and it ended our drought which was important... but the barometer of a teams progress is the league, always has been and always will.

Regards Ferguson 25 years ago.. different era, different game. If you spend 100m, 70m on British players, and are no further forward, questions will be asked. The andy carroll situation is something that has to be addressed instantly. We play awful with him in the side, its slow, ponderous, and Suarez looks half the player as the freedom to move is restricted... last weeks cup final the latest example. Finishing aside, today we were excellent, the movement in the forwards was as good as the tail end of last season.. Suarez and Kuyt linked up quite a few times. The issue of a #9 is what cost Kenny at Newcastle...signing Guivar'ch, Andreas Andersson, Jon Dahl Tomasson.. until he sorts out the carroll shambles that will cost him too.

by **Basil** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:18 pm

I don't think you can keep saying we spent £100 million on players, you have to look at the net spend which is about £40, the whole thing is distorted because of the £50 million we got for torres.

Lucas has been a big loss for us and we needed a natural goal scorer in the squad, it's a big if but with those two in the squad I believe we would have been right up there.

I thought we would have bought a striker in January, lets hope we get a top player in the summer.

by **friendlyguy33** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:18 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:So Hodgson is now the barometer? The club's worst post war manager, a clown who was here for 4 months, is now being compared to Kenny.

To use the worst manager in 60 years as a comparison is a terrible indictment on Kenny. Well done Kenny, you are better than arguably the worst manager the club has ever had. Completely illegitimate comparison that doesnt make Kenny look in any way better.

Kenny Dalglish took over Rafa's team (minus Mascherano, plus Meireles).. Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Gerrard, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Torres, Maxi... hence any legitimate comparison is with Rafa and the positon when he left.

Rafa left in June 2010.. in which we finished 7th with 63pts from 38 games. We stand to finish in the same position with 57pts, and a fortune spent.

of course he is the barometer because that is dalglish`s starting point, dalglish inherited the team from the worst manager this club has had for 60 years.
when ferguson inherited united from atkinson were the united fans asking why they werent playing like busby`s best, law and charlton side within a year? no, because they were realistic, ferguson was there four years without winning anything before they put up the ta-ra fergie not good enough banners.
dalglish inherited `rafa`s team` that won only 1 away game in 6 months, got outplayed and beaten at home by reading in the f.a cup, got humiliated 2-0 by a portsmouth side made up of loan signings, journeymen pro`s and any players left that they couldnt sell because no other club wanted them, infact that portsmouth team hadnt even been paid in 3 months when they played us off the park.
this club has been in a tailspin for 2 seasons under both rafa`s and hodgsons watch, kenny is picking up the pieces but it doesnt happen overnight.

yes.. and that team he inherited was Rafa's team (minus Mascherano, plus Meireles).. Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Gerrard, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Torres, Maxi.

The comparison now is with Rafa the day he left.

Are we any further forward?
league wise? no
player wise? no

What then?

As regards the club being in a tailspin.. agree.. and that was under Statler and Waldorf who made Rafas job impossible.. they have both gone.. Kenny has avoided them, been given 100m.. and still we are no further forward league wise, and player wise (we are definitely worse in the latter).

On the League Cup.. fantastic..and it ended our drought which was important... but the barometer of a teams progress is the league, always has been and always will.

Regards Ferguson 25 years ago.. different era, different game. If you spend 100m, 70m on British players, and are no further forward, questions will be asked. The andy carroll situation is something that has to be addressed instantly. We play awful with him in the side, its slow, ponderous, and Suarez looks half the player as the freedom to move is restricted... last weeks cup final the latest example. Finishing aside, today we were excellent, the movement in the forwards was as good as the tail end of last season.. Suarez and Kuyt linked up quite a few times. The issue of a #9 is what cost Kenny at Newcastle...signing Guivar'ch, Andreas Andersson, Jon Dahl Tomasson.. until he sorts out the carroll shambles that will cost him too.

The run at the end of last season was false in the sense that the team was destined for the top four this season. Whoever had been in charge this season would have had similar problems in terms of getting back into the top four immediately.

Villas-Boas (whom 7_Kewell said on here a year ago was someone who could replace Dalglish last summer) has had a difficult first season at Chelsea. Look at Arsenal they're on a roll now but they struggled at the start of the season.

The bigger picture is what KK is building at the club. As for Carroll well yes he hasn't had a great first season but does that mean he'll always continue to struggle? It does sometimes take time for players to adapt to new surroundings and a new team.

Some of the posts on here are not very helpful. How long will we give KK? Until Christmas? Right who's going to come in and do better instantly. Were City title challengers from the moment they spent £100 million or so under their new owners? Were Chelsea title winners when the Russian first bought them? I can just imagine the same posters on here calling for KK's successor to be sacked if he came in during the summer and didn't improve things immediately. Really talk about fickle.

A bit of perspective is required here. The team is going in the right direction though I accept the league form has tailed off a bit since late December. That said a trophy has been won a second may follow. Top four is still not out of the equation but the team is moving forward.

Sure if whoever comes in during the summer doesn't change things and it's only about 40 points a year from now then it will be time to look at the manager's position. At least have an idea about who realistically can take the job for the long term, who is a plausible candidate and continue the long term strategy.

The quickfire reactions on here after every bad result like 'sack Kenny' as if that's going to improve things don't help at all.

by **Kenny Kan** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:18 pm

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:capello was on that goals on sunday program on sky earlier on in the season and one of the presenters starting going on about christmas tree formations and the like and capello just stopped him waffling on and said something like ` dont get too bogged down by formations,the modern game is so fluid everyone attacks and everyone defends, fullbacks are important attacking players these days and strikers are the first line of defence, in the modern game teams are encouraged to win the ball back as high up the pitch as possible so strikers really are important defensive players, the modern formation in reality is 1-10`

Bringing back the 4-4-2 discussion which isn't "suited for the modern game" :kungfu:

By and large Suarez was upfront with Kuyt for the most part and Henderson on the right. At times this did change and Kuyt would drop off deeper centrally or go over to the right with Henderson floating into the middle.

However, we played exactly how we did at the beginning of the season. When we had good movement, passing, fluidity and control of the game and for the most part we had four across the middle, with Kuyt and Suarez up top. We used the width of the pitch so much better and seem to get more (IMO) out of Downing on the left as he hugs the sidelines. Henderson did okay too but he isn't a natural right midfielder but had Johnson been behind him (we really missed him today) we would have looked much more menacing down the right to.

I don't know why, but we play much better football like this and it was impressive to watch us boss this game with such an expansive style. We, for the first time in a long time got our midfielders into the box, ahead of the ball into threatening areas and we seem to carve more genuine opportunities for ourselves. The center can be exposed a tad, especially when you've become accustomed to having two deeper central midfielders, as there is a gap left for opposing teams to exploit in between our midfield and defense. But, lets be fair, Arsenal never exploited that as most of the time they were chasing shadows and pinned back in their own half.

I'd continue with the exact same set-up next week, drop Kelly for Johnson, and Carra for Coates if Agger isn't fit and persist with this. It looks to as though it will bare us more fruit than the pragmatic approach.

by **Kerry07** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:23 pm

friendlyguy33 wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:yes.. and that team he inherited was Rafa's team (minus Mascherano, plus Meireles).. Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Gerrard, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Torres, Maxi.

The comparison now is with Rafa the day he left.

Are we any further forward?
league wise? no
player wise? no

What then?

As regards the club being in a tailspin.. agree.. and that was under Statler and Waldorf who made Rafas job impossible.. they have both gone.. Kenny has avoided them, been given 100m.. and still we are no further forward league wise, and player wise (we are definitely worse in the latter).

On the League Cup.. fantastic..and it ended our drought which was important... but the barometer of a teams progress is the league, always has been and always will.

Regards Ferguson 25 years ago.. different era, different game. If you spend 100m, 70m on British players, and are no further forward, questions will be asked. The andy carroll situation is something that has to be addressed instantly. We play awful with him in the side, its slow, ponderous, and Suarez looks half the player as the freedom to move is restricted... last weeks cup final the latest example. Finishing aside, today we were excellent, the movement in the forwards was as good as the tail end of last season.. Suarez and Kuyt linked up quite a few times. The issue of a #9 is what cost Kenny at Newcastle...signing Guivar'ch, Andreas Andersson, Jon Dahl Tomasson.. until he sorts out the carroll shambles that will cost him too.

The run at the end of last season was false in the sense that the team was destined for the top four this season. Whoever had been in charge this season would have had similar problems in terms of getting back into the top four immediately.

Villas-Boas (whom 7_Kewell said on here a year ago was someone who could replace Dalglish last summer) has had a difficult first season at Chelsea. Look at Arsenal they're on a roll now but they struggled at the start of the season.

The bigger picture is what KK is building at the club. As for Carroll well yes he hasn't had a great first season but does that mean he'll always continue to struggle? It does sometimes take time for players to adapt to new surroundings and a new team.

Some of the posts on here are not very helpful. How long will we give KK? Until Christmas? Right who's going to come in and do better instantly. Were City title challengers from the moment they spent £100 million or so under their new owners? Were Chelsea title winners when the Russian first bought them? I can just imagine the same posters on here calling for KK's successor to be sacked if he came in during the summer and didn't improve things immediately. Really talk about fickle.

A bit of perspective is required here. The team is going in the right direction though I accept the league form has tailed off a bit since late December. That said a trophy has been won a second may follow. Top four is still not out of the equation but the team is moving forward.

Sure if whoever comes in during the summer doesn't change things and it's only about 40 points a year from now then it will be time to look at the manager's position. At least have an idea about who realistically can take the job for the long term, who is a plausible candidate and continue the long term strategy.

The quickfire reactions on here after every bad result like 'sack Kenny' as if that's going to improve things don't help at all.

I will ask the question again

Are we any further forward?
league wise? no
player wise? no

What then?

Be specific.. what are we further forward at?

by **7_Kewell** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:36 pm

Basil wrote:I don't think you can keep saying we spent £100 million on players, you have to look at the net spend which is about £40, the whole thing is distorted because of the £50 million we got for torres.

Lucas has been a big loss for us and we needed a natural goal scorer in the squad, it's a big if but with those two in the squad I believe we would have been right up there.

I thought we would have bought a striker in January, lets hope we get a top player in the summer.

sorry lad, the net spend argument doesn't wash with me.

The money wasn't there to be wasted...

by **friendlyguy33** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:59 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
friendlyguy33 wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:yes.. and that team he inherited was Rafa's team (minus Mascherano, plus Meireles).. Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Aurelio, Gerrard, Meireles, Lucas, Kuyt, Torres, Maxi.

The comparison now is with Rafa the day he left.

Are we any further forward?
league wise? no
player wise? no

What then?

As regards the club being in a tailspin.. agree.. and that was under Statler and Waldorf who made Rafas job impossible.. they have both gone.. Kenny has avoided them, been given 100m.. and still we are no further forward league wise, and player wise (we are definitely worse in the latter).

On the League Cup.. fantastic..and it ended our drought which was important... but the barometer of a teams progress is the league, always has been and always will.

Regards Ferguson 25 years ago.. different era, different game. If you spend 100m, 70m on British players, and are no further forward, questions will be asked. The andy carroll situation is something that has to be addressed instantly. We play awful with him in the side, its slow, ponderous, and Suarez looks half the player as the freedom to move is restricted... last weeks cup final the latest example. Finishing aside, today we were excellent, the movement in the forwards was as good as the tail end of last season.. Suarez and Kuyt linked up quite a few times. The issue of a #9 is what cost Kenny at Newcastle...signing Guivar'ch, Andreas Andersson, Jon Dahl Tomasson.. until he sorts out the carroll shambles that will cost him too.

The run at the end of last season was false in the sense that the team was destined for the top four this season. Whoever had been in charge this season would have had similar problems in terms of getting back into the top four immediately.

Villas-Boas (whom 7_Kewell said on here a year ago was someone who could replace Dalglish last summer) has had a difficult first season at Chelsea. Look at Arsenal they're on a roll now but they struggled at the start of the season.

The bigger picture is what KK is building at the club. As for Carroll well yes he hasn't had a great first season but does that mean he'll always continue to struggle? It does sometimes take time for players to adapt to new surroundings and a new team.

Some of the posts on here are not very helpful. How long will we give KK? Until Christmas? Right who's going to come in and do better instantly. Were City title challengers from the moment they spent £100 million or so under their new owners? Were Chelsea title winners when the Russian first bought them? I can just imagine the same posters on here calling for KK's successor to be sacked if he came in during the summer and didn't improve things immediately. Really talk about fickle.

A bit of perspective is required here. The team is going in the right direction though I accept the league form has tailed off a bit since late December. That said a trophy has been won a second may follow. Top four is still not out of the equation but the team is moving forward.

Sure if whoever comes in during the summer doesn't change things and it's only about 40 points a year from now then it will be time to look at the manager's position. At least have an idea about who realistically can take the job for the long term, who is a plausible candidate and continue the long term strategy.

The quickfire reactions on here after every bad result like 'sack Kenny' as if that's going to improve things don't help at all.

I will ask the question again

Are we any further forward?
league wise? no
player wise? no

What then?

Be specific.. what are we further forward at?

I disagree. Carroll for all his faults this year is a stronger and more difficult striker to handle than Ngog. Henderson has had some good games this year including today and is better than the likes of Babel or Jovanovic. Likewise Downing has contributed more than Cole and Adam is streets ahead of Poulsen. Similarly Enrique as against Konckesky.

League wise we may have only a point more than at this stage a year ago but in the long term I think the squad is better. The fact is that in the cups we are genuinely competing again and we're still in the mix mathmatically or the the top four. You couldn't say that a year ago.

I don't think it helps to keep rubbishing the squad. We should be getting behind the players and the manager not denigrating them at every turn.

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:39 am

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:I think those who don't believe in where Kenny is taking the club should keep their own counsel for the time being ,because football has a habit of rewarding those who afford it patience .

Dalglish would step aside in a veritable heartbeat if he genuinely believed he couldn't put this club back at the pinnacle of European football . I have no reservations whatsoever concerning the mans love and passion for the club .

you know what mate i just thank god that we didnt have these fans following us years ago, i really do.
when shankly went on that 6 year run without winning anything these lot would have hounded him out, in that time shankly spent big money on the likes of tony hately, alun evans and even john toshack didnt look great early on.
but the fans stuck with him through thick and thin and were rewarded when he built a team that went on to dominate english and european football throughout the 70`s, about 8 or 9 of the players that won the european cup in 77 were shankly signings, and other shankly signings like toshack and fairclough were on the bench too.
barcelona broke the world record on their star player johann cruyff in the 70`s and shanks spent 35 grand on ours from scunthorpe, guess who won when they met in europe? we even beat them at the nou camp with toshack getting the winner.
these days even after beating barca you`d have fans whinging how shanks wasted 100 grand on evans and a 100 grand on hately, never mind the likes of peplow and mclaughlin.
these modern `fans` would have hounded the great man out and the club would have missed out on those great nights in the 70`s

I am in my late forties now and have seen my share of great celebrations ,and I suppose in that respect I have been royally spoiled .
However whilst I do feel for the younger generation of fans who have been starved of any real success in terms of winning leagues ,I do feel their lack of patience has at times become bewildering and a real cause for concern .

I mean Liverpool as a club exists to win trophies and strives to be the best ,and we now have a manager who if afforded the patience can put us back where we belong .
Kenny Dalglish's taste for success hasn't waned ,he still yearns to see this club usurp United once more .

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:02 am

RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
RED BEERGOGGLES wrote:I think those who don't believe in where Kenny is taking the club should keep their own counsel for the time being ,because football has a habit of rewarding those who afford it patience .

Dalglish would step aside in a veritable heartbeat if he genuinely believed he couldn't put this club back at the pinnacle of European football . I have no reservations whatsoever concerning the mans love and passion for the club .

you know what mate i just thank god that we didnt have these fans following us years ago, i really do.
when shankly went on that 6 year run without winning anything these lot would have hounded him out, in that time shankly spent big money on the likes of tony hately, alun evans and even john toshack didnt look great early on.
but the fans stuck with him through thick and thin and were rewarded when he built a team that went on to dominate english and european football throughout the 70`s, about 8 or 9 of the players that won the european cup in 77 were shankly signings, and other shankly signings like toshack and fairclough were on the bench too.
barcelona broke the world record on their star player johann cruyff in the 70`s and shanks spent 35 grand on ours from scunthorpe, guess who won when they met in europe? we even beat them at the nou camp with toshack getting the winner.
these days even after beating barca you`d have fans whinging how shanks wasted 100 grand on evans and a 100 grand on hately, never mind the likes of peplow and mclaughlin.
these modern `fans` would have hounded the great man out and the club would have missed out on those great nights in the 70`s

I am in my late forties now and have seen my share of great celebrations ,and I suppose in that respect I have been royally spoiled .
However whilst I do feel for the younger generation of fans who have been starved of any real success in terms of winning leagues ,I do feel their lack of patience has at times become bewildering and a real cause for concern .

I mean Liverpool as a club exists to win trophies and strives to be the best ,and we now have a manager who if afforded the patience can put us back where we belong .
Kenny Dalglish's taste for success hasn't waned ,he still yearns to see this club usurp United once more .

the sooner they build that new whopperdome on stanley park the better mate, they need a 21st century stadium for the 21st century fans.
bill shankly won 3 titles in 15 years at liverpool, matt busby won 5 titles in 25 years at united and the fans worshipped the ground the 2 men stood on.
can you imagine what type of clubs us and united would be if these modern fans were around back then? the whoppers would have well hounded them out.
shankly went 6 years without winning anything, in those 6 years he made big money mistakes in the transfer market, we finished miles off the pace in terms of points, we had embaressing cup defeats like the infamous one at watford when he decided to break up the team, hell, he even had to deal with manchester united winning the european cup and everton winning the league in those 6 years as well, imagine that these days, everton and united having arguably their greatest ever teams (everton - ball, kendall, harvey / united - charlton, law, best) while we were throwing money down the drain on the likes of hately and evans.
with these fans shankly would be gone, but with him would have went that great side that took us to another level that he built a few years later.
kenny dalglish is one of the greatest names in the history of this club, he picked this club up twice when it was on it`s knee`s, in 85 after heysel he picked it up out of the gutter and yet after a year in charge there are fans questioning his position, even after he`s won a trophy.
they know nothing about supporting a football club and it`s sad that this club of all clubs has fans like this these days.
the fans in the 60`s adopted YNWA as `their` song because it perfectly encapsulated what being a fan of this club was all about, but the fans these days dont want to walk through storms and they havent got hope in their hearts, they dont hope for things they expect them, they are the me, me, me generation.
years ago liverpool fans got behind the players and built them up, the ones who couldnt kick a ball straight like joey jones became cult figures and had big banners made about them, these days fans cant wait to put the boot into them.
they support in the good times and criticise when the bad times come around, fairweather fans but i can think of a few other terms to call them as well.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:30 am

7_Kewell wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:henderson is 21 and carroll turned 22 days after we signed him mate, i think you need to be realistic, the likes of comoli and our owners spoke about buying young players with their best years ahead of them because of all that moneyball malarky.
do you expect players of that age to be the finished article?
in the early 80`s when we brought the likes of rush, whelan, lee and craig johnston into the side the likes of graeme souness, phil neal, kenny dalglish etc stood up to be counted and helped the lads settle, if you put a 21 year old ian rush or sammy lee in this team we have now they`d struggle for form too, all young players do.
to say carroll and henderson are poor signings at the start of their careers is nuts.

I'm all for buying youth, but not when they cost 50+ million. For that money you should get the finished article, like Juan Mata (20 million) or Sergio Aguero (33 million)

To spend that cash on unproven lads at the very start of their careers is nuts...

by **maguskwt** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:03 am

7_Kewell wrote:
yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:henderson is 21 and carroll turned 22 days after we signed him mate, i think you need to be realistic, the likes of comoli and our owners spoke about buying young players with their best years ahead of them because of all that moneyball malarky.
do you expect players of that age to be the finished article?
in the early 80`s when we brought the likes of rush, whelan, lee and craig johnston into the side the likes of graeme souness, phil neal, kenny dalglish etc stood up to be counted and helped the lads settle, if you put a 21 year old ian rush or sammy lee in this team we have now they`d struggle for form too, all young players do.
to say carroll and henderson are poor signings at the start of their careers is nuts.

I'm all for buying youth, but not when they cost 50+ million. For that money you should get the finished article, like Juan Mata (20 million) or Sergio Aguero (33 million)

To spend that cash on unproven lads at the very start of their careers is nuts...

and that basically is it...

we were too obsessed on british talent...

quota argument? non-sense... you can always fill the reserves with young british players... you don't need them for the starting 11... unless of course if they are really good enough...

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