Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:08 am

kazza wrote:
RedSi35 wrote:Saturday 3 March 2012
12:45 Liverpool v Arsenal Anfield
Saturday 10 March 2012
15:00 Sunderland v Liverpool Stadium of Light
Saturday 17 March 2012
15:00 QPR v Liverpool Loftus Road Stadium
Saturday 24 March 2012
15:00 Liverpool v Wigan Anfield
Sunday 1 April 2012
13:30 Newcastle v Liverpool Sports Direct Arena
Saturday 7 April 2012
15:00 Liverpool v Aston Villa Anfield
Monday 9 April 2012
15:00 Blackburn v Liverpool Ewood Park
Saturday 14 April 2012
12:45 Liverpool v Fulham Anfield
Saturday 21 April 2012
15:00 Liverpool v West Brom Anfield
Saturday 28 April 2012
15:00 Norwich v Liverpool Carrow Road
Saturday 5 May 2012
15:00 Liverpool v Chelsea Anfield
Sunday 13 May 2012
15:00 Swansea v Liverpool Liberty Stadium

Look at those fixtures, barring chelsea and arsenal, that looks a pretty easy run in for a top 4 side.

Due to our form I would also worry about Sunderland and Norwich and no doubt the many other draws.

Agreed, we might drop points at Sunderland, Norwich and Newcastle if we keep playing poorly in the league. Heck, maybe draw 2 or 3 games at home, starting with Arsenal

We have to pick it up

by **metalhead** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:14 am

yckatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
mart wrote:
john craig wrote:We have had the most goalscoring opportunities in the league, but the worst chance conversion record in the league. That tells you where the problem is. The midfield can't be that bad if we create that many chances, the problem is putting them in the back of the net. A signing such as Cavani or someone of that ilk could make all the difference to this team.

I dont think its as easy as that. Our problem is that we lack bodies in the box when we create chances. We attack more as individuals than as a team. The few times Downing manages to get a decent cross in, we only got one player in the box. Our midfielders tend to stop and stay 30m or so away from the goal. You can see the difference when Maxi or Bellamy plays as they go for the goal when they have a chance to do so. We tend to make it way too easy for the opposition as their defenders only have to worry about one or two players.

Gerrard who was at his best playing on the "wing" or just behind torres is now pushed back into the Alonso role where he is just an average player. I guess spearing needs help, but its a shame we waste one of the few top players we have to help him out. If we continue to play in a 451 formation we should push gerrard up on the right wing or just behind suarez where we know he will score goals. I'm sure that Suarez and Gerrard could form a great partnership if they are given a chance to do so.

this has been a bugbear of mine for years, we havent got numbers in the opposition box consistently for a long long time.
as a team our crossing is poor but the players trying to put the delivery in have practically no margin for error because they are sometimes lucky to have even one player to aim for never mind 3 or 4 because our lone strikers sometimes get involved in the build up play and no one makes the run beyond them.
years ago look at the amount of goals our fullbacks used to score by ghosting in at the far post and getting onto the end of crosses, chris lawler scored more goals in his liverpool career than dirk kuyt (and unlike kuyt lawler never took a pen) and phil neal scored more than a few himself including that `strikers tap in` during the european cup final in rome in 84. lets face it would any of our fullbacks be in that center forward position in a CL final these days?
it`s hard work for midfielders and fullbacks to back up every attack and then when it breaks down to get quickly back goalside again, they might support the front men 20 times in a game and only get one half chance, but often it`s all that effort and those half chances, especially if you take them like alan kennedy did in paris in 81, that make the difference.
if you get numbers into the box you can just put percentage balls in, you dont need the best cross in the world, and when you have got numbers in there even half hit shots, rebounds or ricochet`s off defenders shins become goalscoring opportunities.
but as i say it takes effort.

Excellent points, I'm worried that Andy Carroll isn't even getting into the box most of the time, at the start of the season I would see him drifting deep and not playing where he is supposed to be, just watch him in some of the games this season, you won't find him in the opposition box. If we get enough players inside the box attacking crosses then our chance ratio will go up giving us a better chance to score a goal

by **stmichael** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:12 pm

the same problems are still there for me, personified by yesterdays game. we still don't commit any players forward into the penalty area. time and time again we have one player in the box and even then that player, carroll mainly yesterday undid all his good work of recent weeks by being completely flat footed and static again.

as it stands, skrtel and johnson are both bigger goal threats than our midfield players.

by **metalhead** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:22 pm

Kenny Dalglish is boss :nod

we are moving in the right direction!

by **Kerry07** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:36 pm

stmichael wrote:the same problems are still there for me, personified by yesterdays game. we still don't commit any players forward into the penalty area. time and time again we have one player in the box and even then that player, carroll mainly yesterday undid all his good work of recent weeks by being completely flat footed and static again.

as it stands, skrtel and johnson are both bigger goal threats than our midfield players.

Absolutely, and its because of how deep we play. We should be playing a MUCH higher line.. a good 20 yards further upfield. Just as an experiment... when Liverpool are playing.. change channel.. and then put it back on the match.. and i guarantee that there will be 8 or 9 red shirts in our own half. We are so deep its scandalous. And when we do win the ball back, theres virtually no team-mate in the opposing half. Its nigh on impossible to score goals this deep. Its the reason we have drawn 8 times at home (mostly against dross). Because we dont play further upfield, we dont have enough players in and around the opposing box to carve open clear chances.. so many of our chances are from distance (long shots CONSTANTLY). How many times yesterday did we have passing moves in and around their box? I can hardly think of any. The two goals came from a corner, and... a shot from distance. The goal that they scored is the very type we should be..more men upfield, short incisive passing.

Kenny this season has been a negative manager. Whether its because he doesnt think we have good enough personnel to attack teams so he just tries to keep things tight and defend deep in numbers im not sure...but we play the way we have done so far this season we wont be troubling top 4 anytime soon. The 8 draws at home have been due to the negativity in not attacking in numbers (plus the poor british signings).

Kenny has a massive job on his hands to turn this around.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:44 pm

Turn what around exactly ?

We have just won our first trophy in 6 years, in the quarter final of another , well in touch with a CL place.

What exactly does he need to turn around ?

Some people need to remember exactly where we were mid season last year and the remarkable turnaround we have seen. Too many people have far too high expectations.

by **metalhead** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:52 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
stmichael wrote:the same problems are still there for me, personified by yesterdays game. we still don't commit any players forward into the penalty area. time and time again we have one player in the box and even then that player, carroll mainly yesterday undid all his good work of recent weeks by being completely flat footed and static again.

as it stands, skrtel and johnson are both bigger goal threats than our midfield players.

Absolutely, and its because of how deep we play. We should be playing a MUCH higher line.. a good 20 yards further upfield. Just as an experiment... when Liverpool are playing.. change channel.. and then put it back on the match.. and i guarantee that there will be 8 or 9 red shirts in our own half. We are so deep its scandalous. And when we do win the ball back, theres virtually no team-mate in the opposing half. Its nigh on impossible to score goals this deep. Its the reason we have drawn 8 times at home (mostly against dross). Because we dont play further upfield, we dont have enough players in and around the opposing box to carve open clear chances.. so many of our chances are from distance (long shots CONSTANTLY). How many times yesterday did we have passing moves in and around their box? I can hardly think of any. The two goals came from a corner, and... a shot from distance. The goal that they scored is the very type we should be..more men upfield, short incisive passing.

Kenny this season has been a negative manager. Whether its because he doesnt think we have good enough personnel to attack teams so he just tries to keep things tight and defend deep in numbers im not sure...but we play the way we have done so far this season we wont be troubling top 4 anytime soon. The 8 draws at home have been due to the negativity in not attacking in numbers (plus the poor british signings).

Kenny has a massive job on his hands to turn this around.

Negative manager and we won our first trophy in 6 years with Kenny's first full season in charge

If that's not moving in the right direction then I don't know what is!

by **metalhead** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:53 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Turn what around exactly ?

We have just won our first trophy in 6 years, in the quarter final of another , well in touch with a CL place.

What exactly does he need to turn around ?

Some people need to remember exactly where we were mid season last year and the remarkable turnaround we have seen. Too many people have far too high expectations.

Some people are glory hunting fans who want instant success :laugh:

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:57 pm

metalhead wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Turn what around exactly ?

We have just won our first trophy in 6 years, in the quarter final of another , well in touch with a CL place.

What exactly does he need to turn around ?

Some people need to remember exactly where we were mid season last year and the remarkable turnaround we have seen. Too many people have far too high expectations.

Some people are glory hunting fans who want instant success

Internet Football Manager fans mate.

Too busy playing pc games as opposed to knowing a clue about the real game

by **Kerry07** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:03 pm

metalhead wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
stmichael wrote:the same problems are still there for me, personified by yesterdays game. we still don't commit any players forward into the penalty area. time and time again we have one player in the box and even then that player, carroll mainly yesterday undid all his good work of recent weeks by being completely flat footed and static again.

as it stands, skrtel and johnson are both bigger goal threats than our midfield players.

Absolutely, and its because of how deep we play. We should be playing a MUCH higher line.. a good 20 yards further upfield. Just as an experiment... when Liverpool are playing.. change channel.. and then put it back on the match.. and i guarantee that there will be 8 or 9 red shirts in our own half. We are so deep its scandalous. And when we do win the ball back, theres virtually no team-mate in the opposing half. Its nigh on impossible to score goals this deep. Its the reason we have drawn 8 times at home (mostly against dross). Because we dont play further upfield, we dont have enough players in and around the opposing box to carve open clear chances.. so many of our chances are from distance (long shots CONSTANTLY). How many times yesterday did we have passing moves in and around their box? I can hardly think of any. The two goals came from a corner, and... a shot from distance. The goal that they scored is the very type we should be..more men upfield, short incisive passing.

Kenny this season has been a negative manager. Whether its because he doesnt think we have good enough personnel to attack teams so he just tries to keep things tight and defend deep in numbers im not sure...but we play the way we have done so far this season we wont be troubling top 4 anytime soon. The 8 draws at home have been due to the negativity in not attacking in numbers (plus the poor british signings).

Kenny has a massive job on his hands to turn this around.

Negative manager and we won our first trophy in 6 years with Kenny's first full season in charge

If that's not moving in the right direction then I don't know what is!

Thats one argument.. the other is 4 wins at home all season. We sit 7th in the league. Take a good look at the league table. Is this good enough? 39pts from 25 games..100m spent.

Yesterday was great, but its the league that ultimately shows progress. We are a long way short.

by **Thommo's perm** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:50 am

Kerry07 wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
stmichael wrote:the same problems are still there for me, personified by yesterdays game. we still don't commit any players forward into the penalty area. time and time again we have one player in the box and even then that player, carroll mainly yesterday undid all his good work of recent weeks by being completely flat footed and static again.

as it stands, skrtel and johnson are both bigger goal threats than our midfield players.

Absolutely, and its because of how deep we play. We should be playing a MUCH higher line.. a good 20 yards further upfield. Just as an experiment... when Liverpool are playing.. change channel.. and then put it back on the match.. and i guarantee that there will be 8 or 9 red shirts in our own half. We are so deep its scandalous. And when we do win the ball back, theres virtually no team-mate in the opposing half. Its nigh on impossible to score goals this deep. Its the reason we have drawn 8 times at home (mostly against dross). Because we dont play further upfield, we dont have enough players in and around the opposing box to carve open clear chances.. so many of our chances are from distance (long shots CONSTANTLY). How many times yesterday did we have passing moves in and around their box? I can hardly think of any. The two goals came from a corner, and... a shot from distance. The goal that they scored is the very type we should be..more men upfield, short incisive passing.

Kenny this season has been a negative manager. Whether its because he doesnt think we have good enough personnel to attack teams so he just tries to keep things tight and defend deep in numbers im not sure...but we play the way we have done so far this season we wont be troubling top 4 anytime soon. The 8 draws at home have been due to the negativity in not attacking in numbers (plus the poor british signings).

Kenny has a massive job on his hands to turn this around.

Negative manager and we won our first trophy in 6 years with Kenny's first full season in charge

If that's not moving in the right direction then I don't know what is!

Thats one argument.. the other is 4 wins at home all season. We sit 7th in the league. Take a good look at the league table. Is this good enough? 39pts from 25 games..100m spent.

Yesterday was great, but its the league that ultimately shows progress. We are a long way short.

One
Miserable
Cu'nt
:nod

by **Kerry07** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:18 pm

perhaps...and dont get me wrong im overjoyed with the trophy, as far as im concerned if the season finished now it would be a success. If we just want to focus on us winning a trophy then great.

I'm looking at the bigger picture tho (mentioned that phrase a few times)... we are a long way short of being where we want to be. My main gripe above all is that we have new signings (primarily Carroll) who patently are not good enough, and the issue is how do we rectify it. The problem with Houllier is when he bought Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou.. he persisted with them when it was obvious they were inadequate. Ferguson did the same with Djemba Djemba, Kleberson and Alan Smith from 2003 onward which is why they won nothing for 4 years. Wenger has done this for the last 6 years. Its one thing making poor buys, its another compounding it by persisting with them.

Some don't look at the bigger picture. Where do we aspire to be? Do we want to challenge for top 4? the league? Ask yourselves that question. And while your doing so, think about Andy Carroll, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson... you realise that the two don't fit. Stewart Downing was excpetional yesterday and yet there wasn't a #9 on the end of anything. On Radio City Aldo stated "great ball Stewie, why wasn't there anyone there making a run"... as HE would have done, as Rush would have done, as Owen would have done... Torres, Fowler. etc etc. We dont have a quality #9. Mark Lawrenson said the same on BBC when Luis shot was saved by the keeper and pushed out, and no one was anywhere near following up... "andy carroll doesnt even move".. he was stood still at the edge of the box. No anticipation, no movement, no awareness. Nothing.

I'm also concerned about Kenny's tactics and how deep we play, our backline is almost on top of Pepe, and we dont commit enough men forward. We should have a much higher line, and be pressing constantly, instead of backing off and playing deep.

by **only me** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:26 pm

If we talk pure Tactics then Yes Kenny adopts a rather conservative approach ,rather defensive minded. It was pretty obvious to see against Cardiff but as well as many other games that we aren't commiting enough bodies into the box and not enough players join the attacking game. Poor downing (which is having a horrible season personlly) could have driven wicked crosses all night long but no one was in the box to receive them ,perfect example.

Yes Kenny got burned by under achievers and poor in-form players but that is where Tactics kicks in. Ask your players to commit themselves into the box ,press high ,don't settle for deep defending ,In a lot of game it seems we are more concern of not losing then going for the win.

by **RedAnt** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:47 pm

Kerry actually makes some decent points at times. They're just delivered in such a fantastical, pessimistic, slightly bitter, stubborn and anti-Liverpool way that most don't take them seriously.

by **damjan193** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:57 pm

RedAnt wrote:Kerry actually makes some decent points at times. They're just delivered in such a fantastical, pessimistic, slightly bitter, stubborn and anti-Liverpool way that most don't take them seriously.

What kind of a fan makes such points after winning a fcking title, something we haven't done in 6 years! It's OK to have some negativity at some point, but to say sh!t about our club all the time is not what being a fan means, especially not a Liverpool fan. It's not all rosy, but we've won a cup which means we're moving in the right direction so ffs stay behind the club!

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