Liverpool FC Forum

[jacdaniel]

This season could still go one way or the other.  I think next Sunday could determine which way it goes for us.  Lose in the final and we could collapse altogether.  Win and we could really gain confidence an a hunger for more success.  No pressure like

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

After the League Cup final, we play at home to Arsenal and away to Sunderland. Chelsea meanwhile are at home to Bolton (3pts) and away to West Brom (quite likely 3pts). They are currently 4 pts clear of us... and after these 2 fixtures theres only 11 to go. So if after the two games that gap extends to 7pts thats a pretty tall order (no chance). Therefore we must take six points from our next two games if we are to have a chance.

Personally i dont think we are good enough. Man for man this is the least talented midfield we have had since the dark days of Souness as manager. I always used to enjoy writing down our midfield.. Redknapp-Ince-Berger-McManaman.... Gerrard-McAllister-Hamann-Smicer... Gerrard-Sissoko-Alonso-Garcia... Gerrard-Alonso-Mascherano-Riera... nowadays i glance over what we have and hope for the best. Kuyt as a right midfielder, Spearing as a holding midfielder, Adam as a playmaker, Downing as a winger, Henderson as an up and down midfielder. If you were compiling a list of PL players in each of their respective categories they would all be way down. You wouldn't hear any top 7-8 side saying.. would quite like to have that Spearing... etc etc.

This season the standard in the fight for 4th has been low.. Chelsea have not looked this bad in a decade, Arsenal have the weakest team since Wenger's been there...so its been a golden chance. If we had bought quality in the summer then 4th would have been ours. I cant see next season being as poor as they both will reinforce. Its imperative then that the major surgery is carried out this summer, and is a success.

on paper we probably do have one of the weakest midfields we`ve had in nearly 20 years but as we all know the game is not played on paper.
during the final months of rafa`s reign i saw some of the most turgid, negative, boring footy that i have seen out of a liverpool side, right up there with some of the worst houllier era displays, and that was with a center mid pairing of mascherano and lucas, one now plays for whats considered the best club side in history and the other has been probably our best or at least our most consistent player for the past 18 months.
mascherano / lucas looks okay on paper but it was woeful in reality.
i`m not trying to say our midfield is great at the moment but to be fair to them in the majority of the games we have played this season we have won the midfield battle, been the better side and have created chances that our forwards should really have put away.
we`ve had a couple of games like the bolton game and even the united game last weekend where we just didnt turn up but that happens over a season, i remember the year we won the league, league cup and european cup, that side containing the likes of souness, rush, dalglish, hansen, lawrenson, neal, whelan etc got battered 4-0 away at coventry and were outplayed and lost 2-0 away to both stoke and southampton as well. those `away at bolton` type games happened back then too.
most of the season we havent actually played that bad, we`ve been quite attacking in style (compared to the last 2 or 3 seasons anyway) and if anything what`s let us down is not creating chances, it`s taking them.
the race for 4th is wide open, for different reason`s arsenal, chelsea and us havent got the results they / we would have wanted and all 3 teams are a bit flaky but i think 4th place will be won by not just the team but the club that manages to hold itself together and not dwell on the bad results that are bound to happen during the run in.
the last thing the already low on confidence players in those 3 clubs need is for their fans to turn on them out of frustration, making even home games a hostile enviroment to play in.
the fans have a big say in who gets 4th imo.

[Thommo's perm]

After the League Cup final, we play at home to Arsenal and away to Sunderland. Chelsea meanwhile are at home to Bolton (3pts) and away to West Brom (quite likely 3pts). They are currently 4 pts clear of us... and after these 2 fixtures theres only 11 to go. So if after the two games that gap extends to 7pts thats a pretty tall order (no chance). Therefore we must take six points from our next two games if we are to have a chance.

Personally i dont think we are good enough. Man for man this is the least talented midfield we have had since the dark days of Souness as manager. I always used to enjoy writing down our midfield.. Redknapp-Ince-Berger-McManaman.... Gerrard-McAllister-Hamann-Smicer... Gerrard-Sissoko-Alonso-Garcia... Gerrard-Alonso-Mascherano-Riera... nowadays i glance over what we have and hope for the best. Kuyt as a right midfielder, Spearing as a holding midfielder, Adam as a playmaker, Downing as a winger, Henderson as an up and down midfielder. If you were compiling a list of PL players in each of their respective categories they would all be way down. You wouldn't hear any top 7-8 side saying.. would quite like to have that Spearing... etc etc.

This season the standard in the fight for 4th has been low.. Chelsea have not looked this bad in a decade, Arsenal have the weakest team since Wenger's been there...so its been a golden chance. If we had bought quality in the summer then 4th would have been ours. I cant see next season being as poor as they both will reinforce. Its imperative then that the major surgery is carried out this summer, and is a success.

I love your optimism

[stmichael]

This season could still go one way or the other.  I think next Sunday could determine which way it goes for us.  Lose in the final and we could collapse altogether. 

Well that certainly happened to Arsenal last season after they lost to Birmingham so that's a fair point.

As inconsistent as we have been, I'm taking some optimism that we generally tend to end seasons in good form. I'm going to Newcastle and Sunderland away and I can easily see us slipping up in both those games.

Gonna be interesting anyway.

[Thommo's perm]

If KK picks the strongest team consistently we should easily make 4th

[devaney]

Oh i agree with the bold comment, it was hugely important that the surgery carried out last year was a success.. hence "its been a golden chance, if we had bought quality in the summer then 4th would have been ours"... but as it hasn't been a success then Kenny is only going to get one more shot to get it right (if hes given money of course). Houllier was never given a second chance, his summer dealings in 2002 finished him.

The one concern i do have is that we could see a repeat of money squandered as we have owners who are brand new to the sport, and have almost no understanding of worth. I cant think of any other owner who would have sanctioned 35m for Andy Carroll.

As regards our next 2 league games, lets say worse case scenario we lose both, Chelsea win both.. we are 10 points behind with 11 games to go, and given the side we currently have it would take a bigger comeback than Istanbul to turn that deficit around. We are not good enough to go on a run of 8 or 9 consecutive wins. Therefore we must constantly stay within reach (no bigger gap than 4 or 5 pts).

Fkgell Kerry it sounds like it's time for a Whisky and Aspirin Cocktail !!!

[Kerry07]

on paper we probably do have one of the weakest midfields we`ve had in nearly 20 years but as we all know the game is not played on paper.
during the final months of rafa`s reign i saw some of the most turgid, negative, boring footy that i have seen out of a liverpool side, right up there with some of the worst houllier era displays, and that was with a center mid pairing of mascherano and lucas, one now plays for whats considered the best club side in history and the other has been probably our best or at least our most consistent player for the past 18 months.
mascherano / lucas looks okay on paper but it was woeful in reality.
i`m not trying to say our midfield is great at the moment but to be fair to them in the majority of the games we have played this season we have won the midfield battle, been the better side and have created chances that our forwards should really have put away.
we`ve had a couple of games like the bolton game and even the united game last weekend where we just didnt turn up but that happens over a season, i remember the year we won the league, league cup and european cup, that side containing the likes of souness, rush, dalglish, hansen, lawrenson, neal, whelan etc got battered 4-0 away at coventry and were outplayed and lost 2-0 away to both stoke and southampton as well. those `away at bolton` type games happened back then too.
most of the season we havent actually played that bad, we`ve been quite attacking in style (compared to the last 2 or 3 seasons anyway) and if anything what`s let us down is not creating chances, it`s taking them.
the race for 4th is wide open, for different reason`s arsenal, chelsea and us havent got the results they / we would have wanted and all 3 teams are a bit flaky but i think 4th place will be won by not just the team but the club that manages to hold itself together and not dwell on the bad results that are bound to happen during the run in.
the last thing the already low on confidence players in those 3 clubs need is for their fans to turn on them out of frustration, making even home games a hostile enviroment to play in.
the fans have a big say in who gets 4th imo.

mascherano-lucas looked every bit as negative on paper as it proved on the field. Lucas was Mascherano's understudy, the two were never meant to play together. Rafa made the error of alienating Alonso, brought in Aquilani who was meant to be his replacement.. but when that didnt work out he resorted to putting lucas alongside Masch.

This season we were outclassed at Spurs, and for long spells at Anfield they controlled midfield. We were chasing shadows in the first half. Scholes dominated midfield in the two games against us. The thought of our current midfield against a top CL side quite frankly is frightening.

Theres controlling possession, dictating the game (which we havent had since Alonso), and then theres just having a share of possession, which is where we are at. We don't hog the ball for long spells, we don't pin teams in. We merely get a share of the ball. The loss of Alonso has been the single most catastrophic thing on the field in the last decade. Our midfield became pants overnight, and almost 3 years on we have yet to adequately replace him. 18m Aquilani, 20m Henderson.. 38m would get a top class player... Javi Martinez and change.

[stmichael]

Having Mascherano-Lucas as a partnership wasn't as much as a problem as the woeful lack of options and movement infront of them at times amongst the front four.

[Thommo's perm]

The one concern i do have is that we could see a repeat of money squandered as we have owners who are brand new to the sport, and have almost no understanding of worth. I cant think of any other owner who would have sanctioned 35m for Andy Carroll.

Again?!
Why dont you get off KK's back?
For fu'cks sake KK bought Carroll and he's here. Must you drone on and on about how sh'it you think he is and how much of a knob KK is for buying him?
Give it a rest or I will consider ending our relationship. I mean it...

[devaney]

The one concern i do have is that we could see a repeat of money squandered as we have owners who are brand new to the sport, and have almost no understanding of worth. I cant think of any other owner who would have sanctioned 35m for Andy Carroll.

Again?!
Why dont you get off KK's back?
For fu'cks sake KK bought Carroll and he's here. Must you drone on and on about how sh'it you think he is and how much of a knob KK is for buying him?
Give it a rest or I will consider ending our relationship. I mean it...

There weren't too many clubs chasing for their cheque books to pay £50m for Torres either. Take £20m off each of the valuations for Torres and Carroll and the deal makes more sense. Liverpool knew that £50m was crazy money for Torres and so did Newcastle. And if your understanding is correct Thommo then it looks unlikely that we will actually pay the full £35m for Carroll.

[Thommo's perm]

The one concern i do have is that we could see a repeat of money squandered as we have owners who are brand new to the sport, and have almost no understanding of worth. I cant think of any other owner who would have sanctioned 35m for Andy Carroll.

Again?!
Why dont you get off KK's back?
For fu'cks sake KK bought Carroll and he's here. Must you drone on and on about how sh'it you think he is and how much of a knob KK is for buying him?
Give it a rest or I will consider ending our relationship. I mean it...

There weren't too many clubs chasing for their cheque books to pay £50m for Torres either. Take £20m off each of the valuations for Torres and Carroll and the deal makes more sense. Liverpool knew that £50m was crazy money for Torres and so did Newcastle. And if your understanding is correct Thommo then it looks unlikely that we will actually pay the full £35m for Carroll.

I will show my ar'se in Lime Street station if Liverpool handed over £35 million to Newcastle for Carroll

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

on paper we probably do have one of the weakest midfields we`ve had in nearly 20 years but as we all know the game is not played on paper.
during the final months of rafa`s reign i saw some of the most turgid, negative, boring footy that i have seen out of a liverpool side, right up there with some of the worst houllier era displays, and that was with a center mid pairing of mascherano and lucas, one now plays for whats considered the best club side in history and the other has been probably our best or at least our most consistent player for the past 18 months.
mascherano / lucas looks okay on paper but it was woeful in reality.
i`m not trying to say our midfield is great at the moment but to be fair to them in the majority of the games we have played this season we have won the midfield battle, been the better side and have created chances that our forwards should really have put away.
we`ve had a couple of games like the bolton game and even the united game last weekend where we just didnt turn up but that happens over a season, i remember the year we won the league, league cup and european cup, that side containing the likes of souness, rush, dalglish, hansen, lawrenson, neal, whelan etc got battered 4-0 away at coventry and were outplayed and lost 2-0 away to both stoke and southampton as well. those `away at bolton` type games happened back then too.
most of the season we havent actually played that bad, we`ve been quite attacking in style (compared to the last 2 or 3 seasons anyway) and if anything what`s let us down is not creating chances, it`s taking them.
the race for 4th is wide open, for different reason`s arsenal, chelsea and us havent got the results they / we would have wanted and all 3 teams are a bit flaky but i think 4th place will be won by not just the team but the club that manages to hold itself together and not dwell on the bad results that are bound to happen during the run in.
the last thing the already low on confidence players in those 3 clubs need is for their fans to turn on them out of frustration, making even home games a hostile enviroment to play in.
the fans have a big say in who gets 4th imo.

mascherano-lucas looked every bit as negative on paper as it proved on the field. Lucas was Mascherano's understudy, the two were never meant to play together. Rafa made the error of alienating Alonso, brought in Aquilani who was meant to be his replacement.. but when that didnt work out he resorted to putting lucas alongside Masch.

This season we were outclassed at Spurs, and for long spells at Anfield they controlled midfield. We were chasing shadows in the first half. Scholes dominated midfield in the two games against us. The thought of our current midfield against a top CL side quite frankly is frightening.

Theres controlling possession, dictating the game (which we havent had since Alonso), and then theres just having a share of possession, which is where we are at. We don't hog the ball for long spells, we don't pin teams in. We merely get a share of the ball. The loss of Alonso has been the single most catastrophic thing on the field in the last decade. Our midfield became pants overnight, and almost 3 years on we have yet to adequately replace him. 18m Aquilani, 20m Henderson.. 38m would get a top class player... Javi Martinez and change.

i disagree mate, most games this season we have been the better side including the games against united, city and spurs at anfield not to mention chelsea and arsenal away.
it`s very rare that you dominate teams like that so i think you`ve got unrealistic expectations if you expect us to play every side we come up against off the park.
our problem has been that we dont take our chances.

[woof woof !]

I will show my ar'se in Lime Street station if Liverpool handed over £35 million to Newcastle for Carroll

Who said our economy is in decline ?

This time last year you could have seen Thommo's ar'se round the back of Lime St station for just £3.50

[alwayslfc]

The fact that KD hadn't managed in 10 yrs prior to his return is probably one of the reasons why he's not repeating his successes and the quality of football of his first spell. The football world has moved on since he left management in 2001 and though he knows a lot about football, I'm sure there are things that you can only learn and know about if you're actually managing a club. I hope he catches and learn fast to keep up with today's game. I don't believe in sacking him even if we finish 8th this season. He should be given the chance to complete his 3 year contract and then it's judgement day for him, not now.

[ethanr]

I will show my ar'se in Lime Street station if Liverpool handed over £35 million to Newcastle for Carroll

Who said our economy is in decline ?

This time last year you could have seen Thommo's ar'se round the back of Lime St station for just £3.50

That usually costs at least £7.75.  What a deal.