Liverpool FC Forum

by **South East Kop** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:47 pm

I am sure KK will react to yesterdays performance, the next few games aint easy but they are just the sought this club licks its lips for so may be a positive.

Should really be on the rumour mill page but this Miloš Krasic guy from Juve seems to be listed as a Liverpool player at present?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo%C5%A1_Krasi%C4%87

by **Scottbot** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:06 pm

Thought it best to post the day after as emotions are always running high after a defeat like yesterday and the forum is generally full of people venting their frustrations. It's been a really tough period for the club this past month with all the Suarez press (and the fact our most creative player in unavailable) and a run of poor results in the league. I'm pretty confident we'll bounce back but I also can't help but question Kenny's tactics in recent weeks as he looks to fill the huge Luis Suarez sized hole in this Liverpool side.

The City result at their place was a cracking win. The lads were superb in that first half and tbh we should have been a couple of goals up based on the first half performance. In the 2nd half they (as expected) came out and put the lads on the back foot and I felt Kenny lost it somewhat with his adjustments. We had Glenn Johnson playing in several different positions, we had 6 defenders on the pitch for the last 15 minutes and no outlet up front. Now I know that the ends justifies the means but it was hard to watch and had they equalised I think the opinion in this place would have been very different in the match thread. The Stoke was also a strange one for me and I really don't know what Kenny was thinking there? Every aspect of the team was wrong and you could almost pick a 0-0 from the first minute. I didn't understand playing with 3 centre-halves, at their place maybe, because then you have to deal with set-pieces, the aerial bombardment, Delap's throws etc but at Anfield? We played Kuyt up top on his own. Now Rafa used to do this and it drove me crazy because it's clear that he can't do the job. He doesn't have the pace, mobility or physical prescence to play the role. The only way it could have worked is if you play a side with midfield runners but we did not. You need the likes of Shelvey, Gerrard and Bellamy to get up and support (or get beyond) Kuyt in that set-up for it to work. And then yesterday I was pretty baffled again. It was a tough blow to lose Spearing because that leaves us with no natural sitter but to go with Gerrard and Adam in a two looked a risk from the start and so it proved with them scoring two goals and causing several other problems from midfield runners who weren't tracked. We played Carroll and Bellamy up front together which was gutsy but it was undermined by the personel in midfield. I simply don't think we have the players to make 4-4-2 work on a regualr basis. In today's game you need a wide man who terrorises defences in order to make it work and we simply don't have one. Young Henderson is a tidy little player and he may develop but he's no wideman. I see a player who is feeling the pressure and is frightened to try things which is why i'd like to Shelvey given more opportunities because he is the complete opposite.

It was good to see Dalglish come out and question the players last night and i think they owe him because he has (until now) abstained from any public criticism but I also think he needs to look in the mirror as well because he's got it wrong just recently. At times last year Kenny played some bizarre formations and player combinations and they were successful (eg. away at Chelsea) so it works both ways. I still fancy us to finish the job against City on Wednesday night but there is a real danger of slipping out of the race for 4th alltogether if the lads can't win a few few home games and put a run together in the league soon.

by **stmichael** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:56 pm

john craig wrote:No one is saying top 4 was a stupid suggestion and neither am I. It still is potentially within our reach this season. But we're competing with two other sides for 4th, both of whom would also be seriously disappointed at finishing outside the top 4. 6 into 4 doesn't go and 2 will miss out.

I'm just saying that when you look at where we were a year ago, then to have a hissy fit at the prospect of finishing outside the top 4 is ridiculous.

I don't really care if the owners said 4th was minimum expectation either. With the greatest respect, me, you and most of the people on this forum know more about football than them.

It's a fair point. I said before the season that I thought we were capable of challenging for a top 4 place. I didn't "expect" us to get top 4 because we obviously had no idea ho quickly the new signings would settle in. I still maintain that we overachieved in the second half of last season and as a result the expectations were far too high going into this season.

Kenny was right to slate the players yesterday. Yes I know he brought a lot of them in but it's one thing not being good enough on the day. It's another thing not putting the effort in and not being able to do the basics as most of our team couldn't do yesterday.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:05 am

Mate, the team yesterday was a sham. And not just yesterday either.....they've been a sham for weeks/months now.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:08 am

bunglemark2 wrote:Mate, the team yesterday was a sham. And not just yesterday either.....they've been a sham for weeks/months now.

Its attitude not ability
KK has to start being ruthless and letting them know whos boss

by **7_Kewell** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:10 am

bunglemark2 wrote:Mate, the team yesterday was a sham. And not just yesterday either.....they've been a sham for weeks/months now.

Agree totally. we've been poor for a long time and what Kenny does over thru next 7 games will determine his future as manager of Liverpool

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:13 am

There isn't a leader on the pitch, never mind enough ruthlessness on the bench.

by **Thommo's perm** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:01 am

bunglemark2 wrote:There isn't a leader on the pitch, never mind enough ruthlessness on the bench.

Been saying it for ages
We need an enforcer and someone to tell people what to do. That tw@t Reo Coker wouldnt have lasted two minutes with Smith or Souness around. Cheeky pr'ick
We need a wartime consigliere
:nod

by **dundreamin** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:11 am

It,s now backs against the walls time. Kenny I hope had them in for training today, and kicked :censored:

. Personally I would beast the lot of them for days. Ram down there throats what it means to play for LFC. And if they don't like it sell them before the end of Jan. Take no prisoners

by **Madmax** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:23 am

Thommo's perm wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:There isn't a leader on the pitch, never mind enough ruthlessness on the bench.

Been saying it for ages
We need an enforcer and someone to tell people what to do. That tw@t Reo Coker wouldnt have lasted two minutes with Smith or Souness around. Cheeky pr'ick
We need a wartime consigliere

Been watching too much godfather...

by **Octsky** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:49 am

if a club legend, a loyal servant for over 40 yrs cannot motivate the lads,
no one can,
the whole squad should be disbanded.
i believed the bolton's game is a bad day at office,
we be playing better next game,
in fact we will win the league cup this season.

by **devaney** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:01 am

Thommo's perm wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Mate, the team yesterday was a sham. And not just yesterday either.....they've been a sham for weeks/months now.

Its attitude not ability
KK has to start being ruthless and letting them know whos boss

I think the word sham is far too strong.

Many supporters are getting frustrated simply because the expectations that were so high are not being met. Comments like that's title 19 and 20 in the bag soon after Kenny was appointed indicate what some fans expected.The longer we go without winning the title the more impatient some idiotic supporters will become.

The abuse aimed at Hodgson before a ball was even kicked under his tenure was unacceptable and moronic. The criticism of Kenny fits into the same category.Whatever happened to YNWA

?

by **Waldo** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:43 am

7_Kewell wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Mate, the team yesterday was a sham. And not just yesterday either.....they've been a sham for weeks/months now.

Agree totally. we've been poor for a long time and what Kenny does over thru next 7 games will determine his future as manager of Liverpool

Not sure what LFC you have been watching lads but the one I have watched on a number of occasions over the past weeks/months is not a sham. Highest chance, shot on target and corner count in the league as well as the 2nd best defensive record and you call that a sham??

Get a grip lads. Oh and forgot to mention we have hit the woodwork something like 20+ times. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where the problem is!!

KK's methods have to be called into question because he keeps tinkering with not only the players but the formation. We have struggled big time without Suarez but if we were to convert some of the chances we had produced season to date it would be a completely different story!!

Saturday was woeful but it's a one off and KK will get the guys firing on all cylinders again soon enough.

Top 4 remains possible. Remember the run we went on from Jan last season. Suarez back coupled with a settles team and the addition of a couple of players in the Jan window and we will back up and running IMO. We have to click soon if a top 4 finish is to be achieved - whist Arsenal and Chelsea are struggling as well.

by **crazyhorse** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:20 am

Waldo wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Mate, the team yesterday was a sham. And not just yesterday either.....they've been a sham for weeks/months now.

Agree totally. we've been poor for a long time and what Kenny does over thru next 7 games will determine his future as manager of Liverpool

Not sure what LFC you have been watching lads but the one I have watched on a number of occasions over the past weeks/months is not a sham. Highest chance, shot on target and corner count in the league as well as the 2nd best defensive record and you call that a sham?? Get a grip lads. Oh and forgot to mention we have hit the woodwork something like 20+ times. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where the problem is!!

KK's methods have to be called into question because he keeps tinkering with not only the players but the formation. We have struggled big time without Suarez but if we were to convert some of the chances we had produced season to date it would be a completely different story!!

Saturday was woeful but it's a one off and KK will get the guys firing on all cylinders again soon enough.

Top 4 remains possible. Remember the run we went on from Jan last season. Suarez back coupled with a settles team and the addition of a couple of players in the Jan window and we will back up and running IMO. We have to click soon if a top 4 finish is to be achieved - whist Arsenal and Chelsea are struggling as well.

I agree with this.

Bolton was by far the worst display for months, and the stats are there for all to see.

The Bolton game aside, we have created chances and been tight at the back. Crapness in front of goal has been our achillies heel and had even half the shots that have hit the woodwork gone in we would be comfortably up there with the top 4.

suarez to come back and the team to find its mojo! YNWA

by **devaney** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:13 am

If you think Kenny's methods are questionable then this makes enjoyable reading from a Chelsea forum:

READ AND ENJOY - DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH HIM ABOUT NANDO - TORRES IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND HIS PERFORMANCES ARE NOT A RESULT OF CHELSEA'S DEFICIENCIES !!

Russellcechbaldry, on 21 January 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:
This is SO frustrating to read. People need to realise that our signing of Torres coincided with a very bad run in form for the club, we were on a big decline in the league at the time and it was very questionable as to wether we would qualify for the Champions League. Since Torres signed not much has changed in this respect and we have dipped in and out of form, if you look at some of the games we have won Torres has been a key player in some of the wins, some outstanding performances IE Man Utd, Sunderland, Genk (I know I'm missing others but I think ill make the point without listing them)

He's been made a massive scapegoat for a team that on the whole are completely mis-firing. And I say this for AVB to an extent also in the respect that I challenge any World class striker or manager to come in and do well with a squad like ours currently. Which other striker has been in form since Torres signed, none apart from a few good games from Sturridge. We have an ageing squad that if I went through and singled out each player there are only one or two that I would say are Irreplaceable in the respect that we would need to break the bank to find someone better.

Cech- Still world class but game is too error prone, I have a theory about his spacial awareness being hindered psychologically due to his helmet, but it is crackpot and out there, either way not the Keeper he once was.

Right back - Bosingwa a wing back who cannot defend vs Ivanovic a right back who cannot attack So compromised either way
CB - Forgetting Cahill - Alex extremely error prone, Terry too slow (His positioning made up for this but now its starting to show) Luiz a liability
LB - Cole not much to say here, one of the ones I'd keep

Midfield - Lamps too slow, lost his passing game due to the quick passing game AVB has adopted, Mikel ineffective, can keep the ball well but doesn't do much with it, Romeu fantastic prospect but far from the finished article, Essien injury prone will be interesting to see the effect he has coming back from this, Ramires by far our stand out player this year along with maybe mata again one of my untouchables, Mereiles solid but average.

Attack - Mata fantastic player, not quite hit the ground running yet to what he is capable of but I'm sure he will - keeper, Drogba lacks interest since Torres arrival blows hot and cold, malaria has had an effect understandably, not the world beater he was, Kalou frustrating, dribbles past 10 players accidentally and then puts it 10 yards wide, inconsistent, not a bad substitute against tired legs but thats about it. Malouda can f*** off, sorry I've never seen such a negative and self serving winger/provider. His dribbling game is poor, his choice of pass is terrible, his judgement on when to shoot and when to tee someone else up is just as rubbish. Had one good season but I don't think we will see him anywhere near playing like that again. Sturridge has been good, pacy intelligent good dribbling skills, needs to crack down on shooting all the time when there is a better option but looking good, and Torres well... He's a world class player, out of form, looking to find his form in a team who as highlighted above, are going to struggle to provide him with enough chances for him to convert in order to give him some confidence. The type of player who needs chances put to him to score, in a team where if you're a striker you need to make your own chances to score.

To summarise, yes he hasn't been the £50m signing we had hoped for, He didn't choose how much we paid for him and I'm fully confident his class is still there. The team around him have been just as awful yet when we lose/draw its Torres that gets all the bad press, which I can understand from the papers and pundits because they like a scapegoat as its fun for them, I just think its a little too far and narrow minded for our own fans to be doing the same thing and not open their eyes to the wider spectrum and realise just how much of a re-vamp the current squad needs.

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