Liverpool FC Forum

lakes10 wrote:the long ball.

well it can work and when it works it wins games, ok it dont look nice but if we won the prem using it i am not going to say anything.

Ofcourse but then you need to have a team set up with the right players to use it. A player capable of delivering precise 60 yd passes up to the big strong strikers so that they can knock the ball down to the hardworking midfield players that are running at full speed towards the strikers. Or, if the team sits as deep as we do,  a striker capable of holding the ball up by himself while he waits for the midfield to catch up.

We need to use a system suited for the players we have, not a system the manager likes. If he wants to change the system, he has to buy the players we need to use that system first. Thats really the managers job, and imo where Roy has shown he us not the man for the job.

jacdaniel wrote:I think Roy's net spend was something like -2.  In other words, we actually made some profit.  Been that way for 2 years or so now. 

And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days.  It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.

i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though.  i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.

Look at what Rafa left behind him after he had total control of signings.

lakes10 wrote:well thisa time last year we had lost 6 prem games and this year we have lost 6 prem games. the club and the player are not moving on even once the old owners have gone.

the player could not work under Rafa and so far they dont seemlike theyy can work under Roy.

you have got to ask yourself do you look for a manager that they can work under or do you look for players that can work under the manager you have.

Nice to see you reverting back to your safety zone with this post. 

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

lakes10 wrote:well thisa time last year we had lost 6 prem games and this year we have lost 6 prem games. the club and the player are not moving on even once the old owners have gone.

the player could not work under Rafa and so far they dont seemlike theyy can work under Roy.

you have got to ask yourself do you look for a manager that they can work under or do you look for players that can work under the manager you have.

Nice to see you reverting back to your safety zone with this post. 

killerp wrote:

jacdaniel wrote:I think Roy's net spend was something like -2.  In other words, we actually made some profit.  Been that way for 2 years or so now. 

And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days.  It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.

i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though.  i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.

Look at what Rafa left behind him after he had total control of signings.

Yeah, because he had total control over the signings - that's why Tevez, Barry, Turner, Alves, Sabrosa, Vidic, et al smacked the f-ck out of Utrecht tonights 8-0 win...

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

killerp wrote:

jacdaniel wrote:I think Roy's net spend was something like -2.  In other words, we actually made some profit.  Been that way for 2 years or so now. 

And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days.  It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.

i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though.  i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.

Look at what Rafa left behind him after he had total control of signings.

Yeah, because he had total control over the signings - that's why Tevez, Barry, Turner, Alves, Sabrosa, Vidic, et al smacked the f-ck out of Utrecht tonights 8-0 win...

now now lol

in fact it was more to do with the silly asking price as to why them players didnot come to the club. take Sabrosa as soon as it was known that liverpool were looking at him they put his price up by 8mil.

i will agree with you that in the last year rafa was here he was not given the money to spend....but going by theplayers he had taken here that had not worked out i dont see whythe owners would have given him the trust with their money.(or should that be the banks money.

eds wrote:Last but not least we have the horrific spector of the Scum overtaking us in league titles, something which was unfathomable only 15 years ago. It will be a sorry sight for Liverpool fans across the world if they manage to do it at the end of this season, but in large part in should really be the final kick in the guts to reawaken the Titan from merseyside. The fans need to demand more, from our players, from our manager and most importantly from our owners, we won a huge battle against H&G but that was only a prelude of things to come, we must now find it in ourselves to find our souls again, this is the WORLDS GREATEST club WE MUST stop mediocrity and poor performances, this won't happen until we get rid of Roy and half the dead wood in our side...........

Excellent summary Lad

This is something we as fans seem to have forgotten about ,and it will be truly a travesty of epic proportions if Taggart fulfils his promise to finally knock the Reds of their once unshakeable perch
He must believe all his Christmas's had come in one fell swoop when Hodgson took charge of his nemesis 

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

lakes10 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:

rocky29 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.

Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.

he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.

And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.

still he got 76 players in them years and still could not bulid a team to win the prem and left us with no bench last year and this year.

76? I think you need to stop reading Sky's pages.

Rafa signed about 40 players for the first team, many of whom were replacements rather than additions. (He sold 46 first team players as well, which itself shows he was never given the funds to replace some players, let alone improve/increase the squad.)

The rest were all for the youth side, which is alright if, when it comes to comparing signings with other clubs, you also include THEIR youth players in the numbers. Even then, there'll be no mention of the fact that Rafa was reinventing the youth set up and had to replace a lot of dead wood and sub-standard reserve players. That's the problem with dickhead journos with a hard-on for Rafa - they skew the figures wildly as they know that there are people out there who believe everything they read.

For the record, Rafa's spending was as follows:

Bought: £229,125,000.
Sold: £148,130,000.
Net Spend: £80,995,000. (Divided by 6 = £13,499,166.70 per season.)

Question these things and it's easy to see the agendas and lies. It's also easy to see the lengths some scumbags will go to to defame one of the greatest managers in our history.[/quote]
This post is a true reflection of what is wrong with our club today. Contentment in mediocrity.

One of the "greatest" managers, WTF   
   

Did he win the premier league?

From those odd 36 youth players he bought in, where are the ones playing for our 1st team?

Why was money spent on temporary fill-ins when I can name you countless examples where it wasn't needed??? Our squad grew and grew BUT the quality didn't.......

Of all the mistakes the worst was when he blew it the season we were on top and went on a massive stupid rant against whiskey nose, all he needed to do was focus on our remaining games and we would have won the title, but alas a 4-4 draw to Arsenal cost us dearly, you can't use the "we were dirt poor and had no money to spend" excuse then. 

Also how do you spell out the following sunshine:

Aquilani 20m
Keane 19m
Johnson 18m
Babel 11m
Riera 8m
Dossena 7m
Penant 6.7m
Morientes 6.3m

The only good players he bought in were Alonso, Reina, Torres (all Spanish), Mascherano and to a arguable point Kuyt.

That is a s**tload of money to make on mistakes, it can't be ignored, no matter how hard you huff and puff and cry out about hidden agendas, secret Manure UFO underground conspiracies, the simple answer is Rafa and I will slowly say it just........wasn't.........good........enough.

What you fail to see is the fans that understand something about this game do look back and smile about Istanbal 2005 and the FA Cup in 2006, but outside of that they realise there was nothing that "great" about Rafa Benitez. Harsh but fair.

eds wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

lakes10 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:

rocky29 wrote:

bavlondon wrote:The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.

Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.

he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.

And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.

still he got 76 players in them years and still could not bulid a team to win the prem and left us with no bench last year and this year.

76? I think you need to stop reading Sky's pages.

Rafa signed about 40 players for the first team, many of whom were replacements rather than additions. (He sold 46 first team players as well, which itself shows he was never given the funds to replace some players, let alone improve/increase the squad.)

The rest were all for the youth side, which is alright if, when it comes to comparing signings with other clubs, you also include THEIR youth players in the numbers. Even then, there'll be no mention of the fact that Rafa was reinventing the youth set up and had to replace a lot of dead wood and sub-standard reserve players. That's the problem with dickhead journos with a hard-on for Rafa - they skew the figures wildly as they know that there are people out there who believe everything they read.

For the record, Rafa's spending was as follows:

Bought: £229,125,000.
Sold: £148,130,000.
Net Spend: £80,995,000. (Divided by 6 = £13,499,166.70 per season.)

Question these things and it's easy to see the agendas and lies. It's also easy to see the lengths some scumbags will go to to defame one of the greatest managers in our history.

This post is a true reflection of what is wrong with our club today. Contentment in mediocrity.

One of the "greatest" managers, WTF   
   

Did he win the premier league?

From those odd 36 youth players he bought in, where are the ones playing for our 1st team?

Why was money spent on temporary fill-ins when I can name you countless examples where it wasn't needed??? Our squad grew and grew BUT the quality didn't.......

Of all the mistakes the worst was when he blew it the season we were on top and went on a massive stupid rant against whiskey nose, all he needed to do was focus on our remaining games and we would have won the title, but alas a 4-4 draw to Arsenal cost us dearly, you can't use the "we were dirt poor and had no money to spend" excuse then. 

Also how do you spell out the following sunshine:

Aquilani 20m
Keane 19m
Johnson 18m
Babel 11m
Riera 8m
Dossena 7m
Penant 6.7m
Morientes 6.3m

The only good players he bought in were Alonso, Reina, Torres (all Spanish), Mascherano and to a arguable point Kuyt.

That is a s**tload of money to make on mistakes, it can't be ignored, no matter how hard you huff and puff and cry out about hidden agendas, secret Manure UFO underground conspiracies, the simple answer is Rafa and I will slowly say it just........wasn't.........good........enough.

What you fail to see is the fans that understand something about this game do look back and smile about Istanbal 2005 and the FA Cup in 2006, but outside of that they realise there was nothing that "great" about Rafa Benitez. Harsh but fair.[/quote]
Me likey
Well said eds