Liverpool FC Forum

[lakes10]

Skrtel,Rodriguez and Koncheski are probably 3 of our most inconsistant and liable for our bad form players at the club!......Wise up lakes!

yes and they are some of the main names in our team......shows how poor our team is dont it.

Gerrard,Carragher and Reina if ya wanna name 3?...ya balloon!

you need 11 players to make a good team ,not just a few, yes we have some very good players.......when they feel like playing and not being moody.

and again we get back to my main point.....and by the way i did not list all the payer in the op, i did not have time as i was going to work and in the top part i could not fit all the names in.

why are our playes not playing the way we know they can, yes the same can be said for Reina as i think he has blown hot and cold during games this year so far.

[Ring-of-Fire]

Skrtel,Rodriguez and Koncheski are probably 3 of our most inconsistant and liable for our bad form players at the club!......Wise up lakes!

yes and they are some of the main names in our team......shows how poor our team is dont it.

Gerrard,Carragher and Reina if ya wanna name 3?...ya balloon!

you need 11 players to make a good team ,not just a few, yes we have some very good players.......when they feel like playing and not being moody.

and again we get back to my main point.....and by the way i did not list all the payer in the op, i did not have time as i was going to work and in the top part i could not fit all the names in.

why are our playes not playing the way we know they can, yes the same can be said for Reina as i think he has blown hot and cold during games this year so far.

With the defence, it's quite simple:

1. They aren't used to man-marking and were bought to play zonal as the main system (switching to man-marking as and when needed).

2. Carragher, Johnson and Agger out injured for various periods.

3. Konchesky is gash.

All of the above put more pressure on the 'keeper and make it harder for him to judge what his defenders are going to do.

For the midfield, it's simple:

1. Playing on top of the defence, meaning the quick breaks we are famed for are now 30 yards longer than before and whereas we played on the opposition's shoulder under Benitez, we now have 11 behind the ball at all times, meaning the opposing midfield and defence need beating, not just the odd defender.

2. The 'wingers' are basically being told to occupy wingback positions and are regularly in our own half, instead of trying to stretch the play and get support from the fullbacks. How often have Johnson or Konchesky overlapped Kuyt and Rodriguez this season? Half of the time last year, the fullbacks were further forward than the wingers, who would then move inside or swap to a less advanced position to creat space/passing options.

3 (and the reason why the strikers are struggling):

They are miles away from the midfield and thus isolated from the play. The defence is camped on the 18 yard line, the midfield is about 10 yards further forward and Torres/Ngog/Babel are occupying an area 50 yards further forwards whilst entertaining 4 defenders and a DM, more often than not. The only advances we see from the midfield are when they're carrying the ball. There's no support, no overlapping, no-one showing for a pass or lay-off and no-one capable of hitting the 60 yard passes required to make such a W*nk system work.

We need to push up and get some space in between the defence and Pepe, the midfield and defence and the push 1 or 2 up in support of the strikeforce. It's simple stuff, really. We've got a squad suited to pressing the play high up the pitch but we're utilising them all wrong, setting up like a newly-promoted side battling for survival.

If you want to win, you play like winners - something we've managed about 4 times this season. (Even the much-revered Chelsea game - we would have been spanked had the chavs not been utter sh!t.)

If Roy can't change his methods, perhaps he needs to look in the mirror and be honest with himself and us.

[tubby]

The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.[/quote]
Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.

[rocky29]

The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.

Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.[/quote]
he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.

[tubby]

The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.

Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.

he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.[/quote]
And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.

[Ben Patrick]

what's Roys net spend out of curiosity ?

[tubby]

what's Roys net spend out of curiosity ?

Doesn't really matter mate as he's not done anything comparable in terms of winning compared to previous managers. What's his all time high finish in the premier league? You can't really bring in the Scandinavian leagues imo as they are worse than even Scotland.

[Ben Patrick]

what's Roys net spend out of curiosity ?

Doesn't really matter mate as he's not done anything comparable in terms of winning compared to previous managers. What's his all time high finish in the premier league? You can't really bring in the Scandinavian leagues imo as they are worse than even Scotland.

ah dodging the question.
Its comparable because its an excuse you all trot out for Rafa yet it doesnt matter what Roy was allowed to spend.

By the way i will keep saying this, i dont think Roy is up to the job.

The point is neither was Rafa.

[lakes10]

Skrtel,Rodriguez and Koncheski are probably 3 of our most inconsistant and liable for our bad form players at the club!......Wise up lakes!

yes and they are some of the main names in our team......shows how poor our team is dont it.

Gerrard,Carragher and Reina if ya wanna name 3?...ya balloon!

you need 11 players to make a good team ,not just a few, yes we have some very good players.......when they feel like playing and not being moody.

and again we get back to my main point.....and by the way i did not list all the payer in the op, i did not have time as i was going to work and in the top part i could not fit all the names in.

why are our playes not playing the way we know they can, yes the same can be said for Reina as i think he has blown hot and cold during games this year so far.

With the defence, it's quite simple:

1. They aren't used to man-marking and were bought to play zonal as the main system (switching to man-marking as and when needed).

2. Carragher, Johnson and Agger out injured for various periods.

3. Konchesky is gash.

All of the above put more pressure on the 'keeper and make it harder for him to judge what his defenders are going to do.

For the midfield, it's simple:

1. Playing on top of the defence, meaning the quick breaks we are famed for are now 30 yards longer than before and whereas we played on the opposition's shoulder under Benitez, we now have 11 behind the ball at all times, meaning the opposing midfield and defence need beating, not just the odd defender.

2. The 'wingers' are basically being told to occupy wingback positions and are regularly in our own half, instead of trying to stretch the play and get support from the fullbacks. How often have Johnson or Konchesky overlapped Kuyt and Rodriguez this season? Half of the time last year, the fullbacks were further forward than the wingers, who would then move inside or swap to a less advanced position to creat space/passing options.

3 (and the reason why the strikers are struggling):

They are miles away from the midfield and thus isolated from the play. The defence is camped on the 18 yard line, the midfield is about 10 yards further forward and Torres/Ngog/Babel are occupying an area 50 yards further forwards whilst entertaining 4 defenders and a DM, more often than not. The only advances we see from the midfield are when they're carrying the ball. There's no support, no overlapping, no-one showing for a pass or lay-off and no-one capable of hitting the 60 yard passes required to make such a W*nk system work.

We need to push up and get some space in between the defence and Pepe, the midfield and defence and the push 1 or 2 up in support of the strikeforce. It's simple stuff, really. We've got a squad suited to pressing the play high up the pitch but we're utilising them all wrong, setting up like a newly-promoted side battling for survival.

If you want to win, you play like winners - something we've managed about 4 times this season. (Even the much-revered Chelsea game - we would have been spanked had the chavs not been utter sh!t.)

If Roy can't change his methods, perhaps he needs to look in the mirror and be honest with himself and us.

good post that mate and you do mate some good points.....and some i dont agree with but hey.

I have never been a fan of zonal marking and i am happy that we have gone back to man marking, ok some of the players will take time to get use to it but to be fair most did not play zonal that long as they did not use it at their old clubs.

the long ball.

well it can work and when it works it wins games, ok it dont look nice but if we won the prem using it i am not going to say anything.

but going but the stats used on SKY the other night we have used it less that another team in the top 6 this year........but we are getting wrong and it shows up more.

lets face facts, the results over the last 20 years have not been good so its not just down to one manager that we are not winning the prem.

its a lot harder to set a team up that can play good in the prem week in week out, thats whuy some managers will pick a cup to aim for. Rafa did this with the cl, others do t for the FA CUP.

Last year as a team we were far to deep. this year we have tried to push up but keeping the ball is the problem, no one can tell me that a change of a manager can take the skill of passing away from a player.

our passing has been so ban its almost funny.

Torres dont seem to be able to keep the ball, pass the ball or even move around the ball.

one thing stood out for me in the last two game that we lost.......the amout on time our players spent falling over (taking a dive) they need to grow up in that area and stay on their feet, if they think a player is getting the better of them then go in hard a few times (lie the 80's).

[lakes10]

The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.

Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.

he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.

And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.[/quote]
still he got 76 players in them years and still could not bulid a team to win the prem and left us with no bench last year and this year.

[jacdaniel]

I think Roy's net spend was something like -2.  In other words, we actually made some profit.  Been that way for 2 years or so now. 

And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days.  It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.

i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though.  i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.

[lakes10]

I think Roy's net spend was something like -2.  In other words, we actually made some profit.  Been that way for 2 years or so now. 

And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days.  It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.

i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though.  i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.

no sorry that dont stand up, Rafa took 76 players to this club in his years here, more than any other manager in the clubs history in that time span.

Fernando Morientes cost 5mil plus his wages sold for 3 mil.
they guy should never have come to this club.

he was then given 20 mil to spend on Alberto Aquilani
a player that was not fit and when he was fit he tirned out to be and sent on loan to try and make some money ourt of him.

Rafa was given the money and time to build a good team...he did not do that and that is why he is no longer the manager of Liverpool fc.

[Benny The Noon]

Ok couple of points

Konchesky and Skertl are not big name players in a million years

Konchesky is letting us down because he is not good enough and never was

Skertel has never been the same player since his head injury a couple of years ago

Torres - the manager doesnt set up the team to get the best out of him and he looks fed up

Gerrard - he is playing in his favourite position yet its not his best position

Cole - Was never going to be the same player as a couple years ago and we can see that

Pepe - a few errors which are creeping in mainly because of the pressure the back four are putting him under

A few other things -lakes why do you say you dont want this to turn into another thread about Hodgson and yet post countless posts slating previous manager in it ?

[Ring-of-Fire]

The thing is, though, that Rafa signed a contract for control over youth team and transfers but was never actually given the control in the following transfer windows and was sacked a year later having been given £16k to spend in the summer. (It was actually closer to minus £15m as we only paid £5m upfront for Aquilani and won't have paid any more of it since he's been loaned out to Juve). Glen Johnson cost £7.5m as Portsmouth owed us £10m from the Crouch deal (money we would otherwise have never seen again as their administration and relegation has shown). We sold Alonso for £30m 3x what he cost) and Arbeloa for £5m-odd. We spent £12.5m in real terms on their replacements and people still think Rafa was in control of the signings! Rafa set up a deal for Tevez but the owners refused it. He set up a deal for Michael Turner, but the owners refused it. (So he went for Kyrgiakos instead.)

The youth set up has provided us with Kelly, Shelvey, Pachecho, Suso and Wilson - all players bought into the club/academy by Rafa.

It's very easy to blame him for the failure of certain signings, but why do you think he wanted more control over said signings? He obviously wasn't happy with the players he was getting, so he tried to stop others interfering. It makes perfect sense if you ask me, and no-one in their right mind would think that this team is what Benitez wanted.

Excellent post that. Some people really seem to have forgotten the constraints Rafa had to deal with. The fact that we were one of the most feared teams in Europe then just goes to show what a great tactician he is.

he spent over 220 million over 5 years so dont talkabout constraints plus his man management skills were attrocious.

And what was his net spend each year? Something like 25 - 30mil? Tell me do Chelsea, Utd, Spurs or Man City expect to finish in the top 4 with those sort of resources? Your taking the overall figure and skewing it to fit some twisted agenda.

still he got 76 players in them years and still could not bulid a team to win the prem and left us with no bench last year and this year.[/quote]
76? I think you need to stop reading Sky's pages.

Rafa signed about 40 players for the first team, many of whom were replacements rather than additions. (He sold 46 first team players as well, which itself shows he was never given the funds to replace some players, let alone improve/increase the squad.)

The rest were all for the youth side, which is alright if, when it comes to comparing signings with other clubs, you also include THEIR youth players in the numbers. Even then, there'll be no mention of the fact that Rafa was reinventing the youth set up and had to replace a lot of dead wood and sub-standard reserve players. That's the problem with dickhead journos with a hard-on for Rafa - they skew the figures wildly as they know that there are people out there who believe everything they read.

For the record, Rafa's spending was as follows:

Bought: £229,125,000.
Sold: £148,130,000.
Net Spend: £80,995,000. (Divided by 6 = £13,499,166.70 per season.)

Question these things and it's easy to see the agendas and lies. It's also easy to see the lengths some scumbags will go to to defame one of the greatest managers in our history.

[Ring-of-Fire]

I think Roy's net spend was something like -2.  In other words, we actually made some profit.  Been that way for 2 years or so now. 

And its the main reason why we're sh.ite these days.  It wasn't Rafa's fault he had to shop in the bargain basement and it isnt Roys fault either.

i still don't think Roy is good enough to be our manager though.  i think Rafa might have been with a bit more cash.

no sorry that dont stand up, Rafa took 76 players to this club in his years here, more than any other manager in the clubs history in that time span.

Fernando Morientes cost 5mil plus his wages sold for 3 mil.
they guy should never have come to this club.

he was then given 20 mil to spend on Alberto Aquilani
a player that was not fit and when he was fit he tirned out to be and sent on loan to try and make some money ourt of him.

Rafa was given the money and time to build a good team...he did not do that and that is why he is no longer the manager of Liverpool fc.

Xabi Alonso - cost £10.5m, sold for £30m.

Mohammed Sissoko - cost £5.6m, sold for £8.2m.

Bellamy - cost £6m, sold for £7.5m.

Crouch - cost £7m, sold for £11m.

What's your point, love?