Liverpool FC Forum

by **RED BEERGOGGLES** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:38 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:he deserves credit no doubt.

what i am saying is he has improved further under Roy.

I know Ben ,but its the importance placed on the Lad since Mascherano left for Barcelona ,that imo has the Lad playing with real conviction ...the only thing I would credit the manager for is not getting rid when most posters (well the ones on here anyway ) insisted he would play him less and less ..... and then they saw Poulson strut his stuff :laugh:

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:08 pm

but to be fair he quickly took poulsen (his signing) out of the side.
Lucas played in the past when he wasnt upto it and it affected the team imo.

by **Ring-of-Fire** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
stmichael wrote:
rocky29 wrote:lucas maxi and even babbel have played much better under roy than they ever did under rafa.

what a load of guff. maxi i'll give you but the other two not a chance.

infact lucas hasn't been performing much differently from last season. he's basically achieved what he has by knuckling down and not whinging when he wasn't a first teamer and he was getting booed by a section of our own moronic supporters. the main problem last season was him and mascherano didnt complement each other at all.

as for babel, he was excellent in his first season here but his deficiencies since have been as much to do with his own poor attitude than anything else.

Lucas has without a shadow of a doubt moved up a notch this season.
He was steady last season, this season he has been possibly our best player.
Give Roy maybe a tiny bit of credit hey ?

No he hasn't. Lucas has just stopped being an unfair scapegoat most of the time because Poulsen has been utter tripe and taken the glare off the Brazilian whenever he's played. Lucas was one of our best players last season, but no-one wanted to admit it.

If it's Rafa's fault the players are playing sh*t, it's got to be his fault that they're coming good, too. You can't have it both ways.

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:38 pm

I've got no problem giving credit to hodgson where it is due (like giving the young lads a go ) but to credit him with lucas's improvement is not correct imo . As said above by ring of fire ,lucas has been one of our most consistant players for over a year . No one is prepared to admit they were wrong about him though and admit that the lad is a good player . Once again like has been said above only poulson coming in and showing us how cr@p he is has made people sit up and take notice of Lucas's ability. Hodgson has to take credit for sticking by him though and letting him show his ability on a consistant basis and that's fair enough.

by **Penguins** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:42 pm

The most important stat:

Torres under Rafa: 56 goals in 79 PL games

Torres under Roy: 5 goals in 15 PL games

I wonder who Torres liked to play under....

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:50 pm

Ring-of-Fire wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
stmichael wrote:
rocky29 wrote:lucas maxi and even babbel have played much better under roy than they ever did under rafa.

what a load of guff. maxi i'll give you but the other two not a chance.

infact lucas hasn't been performing much differently from last season. he's basically achieved what he has by knuckling down and not whinging when he wasn't a first teamer and he was getting booed by a section of our own moronic supporters. the main problem last season was him and mascherano didnt complement each other at all.

as for babel, he was excellent in his first season here but his deficiencies since have been as much to do with his own poor attitude than anything else.

Lucas has without a shadow of a doubt moved up a notch this season.
He was steady last season, this season he has been possibly our best player.
Give Roy maybe a tiny bit of credit hey ?

No he hasn't. Lucas has just stopped being an unfair scapegoat most of the time because Poulsen has been utter tripe and taken the glare off the Brazilian whenever he's played. Lucas was one of our best players last season, but no-one wanted to admit it.

If it's Rafa's fault the players are playing sh*t, it's got to be his fault that they're coming good, too. You can't have it both ways.

Now its due to Rafa that players who were not great under him are now playing better ?

Comical some people.

IF you read my posts i have stated that Lucas played better last season, he was pretty consistant. However he has without a doubt moved up a level this season.
Like redbeergoggles said the fact that Mascherano has gone may be a key factor - who knows.
But i havent ever seen him playing the same sort of forward passes consistently, winning the ball giving it simple, but then more importantly wanting it back and getting into the spaces to receive it back.
It didnt happen last season for me but he still played ok.
One of the key things may be that he has a better footballer alongside him in Raul Meireles, Lucas and Mascherano where both pretty similar so didnt really give the midfield any balance.

Am not having it though that we are seeing similar performances from Lucas this season, not for one minute.

by **rocky29** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:51 pm

Penguins wrote:The most important stat:

Torres under Rafa: 56 goals in 79 PL games

Torres under Roy: 5 goals in 15 PL games

I wonder who Torres liked to play under....

lets get rafa back then. Lets see how many players would love it. Stevie carra even nando wouldnt want him back.

by **Greavesie** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:54 pm

Lucas isn't good enough for LFC, end of. Who cares who he's playing better under, he shouldn't even be at this club - cue the 'who bought him bullsh!t responses'.

Seriously guys the fact he's our best player and we're doing sh!t tells me a lot. He's been doing well and credit where it's due but it's not hard to stand out among the dross we've been watching so far this season

Is this what it's come to - who made Lucas better - is this where we praise Hodgson - surely we're getting desparate in some quarters?

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:03 pm

rocky29 wrote:
Penguins wrote:The most important stat:

Torres under Rafa: 56 goals in 79 PL games

Torres under Roy: 5 goals in 15 PL games

I wonder who Torres liked to play under....

lets get rafa back then. Lets see how many players would love it. Stevie carra even nando wouldnt want him back.

Player power again , don't think so .We are in the sh!t we are in because of it. Once the players start dictateing to the manager we are lost . It's only my opinion but personally i think that's been alot of hodgson's problem this year . Listening to the wrong people .

by **metalhead** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:10 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:I've got no problem giving credit to hodgson where it is due (like giving the young lads a go ) but to credit him with lucas's improvement is not correct imo . As said above by ring of fire ,lucas has been one of our most consistant players for over a year . No one is prepared to admit they were wrong about him though and admit that the lad is a good player . Once again like has been said above only poulson coming in and showing us how cr@p he is has made people sit up and take notice of Lucas's ability. Hodgson has to take credit for sticking by him though and letting him show his ability on a consistant basis and that's fair enough.

Agree to disagree Igor,

Last season's Lucas didn't pass the ball forward enough, or gave the right pass, or kept it tidy in possession or was involved in our overall attacking play, now we are seeing these things in Lucas this season. Maybe because Roy's system got the best out of him or helped him improve a bit?

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:10 pm

rocky29 wrote:Its way to early to judge if roy is good enough.

Yeh wha.

by **Greavesie** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:11 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
rocky29 wrote:Its way to early to judge if roy is good enough.

Yeh wha.

like I posted above Sandra, the fact that we're arguing over who made Lucas a better player shows how bad its getting :no

by **Ring-of-Fire** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:15 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
Ring-of-Fire wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
stmichael wrote:
rocky29 wrote:lucas maxi and even babbel have played much better under roy than they ever did under rafa.

what a load of guff. maxi i'll give you but the other two not a chance.

infact lucas hasn't been performing much differently from last season. he's basically achieved what he has by knuckling down and not whinging when he wasn't a first teamer and he was getting booed by a section of our own moronic supporters. the main problem last season was him and mascherano didnt complement each other at all.

as for babel, he was excellent in his first season here but his deficiencies since have been as much to do with his own poor attitude than anything else.

Lucas has without a shadow of a doubt moved up a notch this season.
He was steady last season, this season he has been possibly our best player.
Give Roy maybe a tiny bit of credit hey ?

No he hasn't. Lucas has just stopped being an unfair scapegoat most of the time because Poulsen has been utter tripe and taken the glare off the Brazilian whenever he's played. Lucas was one of our best players last season, but no-one wanted to admit it.

If it's Rafa's fault the players are playing sh*t, it's got to be his fault that they're coming good, too. You can't have it both ways.

Now its due to Rafa that players who were not great under him are now playing better ?

Comical some people.

IF you read my posts i have stated that Lucas played better last season, he was pretty consistant. However he has without a doubt moved up a level this season.
Like redbeergoggles said the fact that Mascherano has gone may be a key factor - who knows.
But i havent ever seen him playing the same sort of forward passes consistently, winning the ball giving it simple, but then more importantly wanting it back and getting into the spaces to receive it back.
It didnt happen last season for me but he still played ok.
One of the key things may be that he has a better footballer alongside him in Raul Meireles, Lucas and Mascherano where both pretty similar so didnt really give the midfield any balance.

Am not having it though that we are seeing similar performances from Lucas this season, not for one minute.

I'm saying that if it's Rafa's fault some aren't playing well, it has to be down to him that others are. Likewise, if it's Rafa's fault here, it must be Mourinho's fault at Inter. If you can't grasp that concept, then I suggest you ask someone to explain it to you.

If you actually paid any attention to Lucas' play last year instead of focusing on Rafa, you wouldn't be saying that. I recommend that you watch last season's matches again, then revisit this topic.

The reason why Lucas is now playing the ball forwards more often is because to play it backwards would be to concede a corner as the midfield is far too deep.

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:16 pm

Greavesie wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:
rocky29 wrote:Its way to early to judge if roy is good enough.

Yeh wha.

like I posted above Sandra, the fact that we're arguing over who made Lucas a better player shows how bad its getting

your in the minority if you dont think he is playing well.

and i dont mean that in the context of comparing his form to how the team is playing as a whole. I mean he has been playing really well regardless of results and performances by others.

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:21 pm

Not even gonna go there greavesie lad, as far as im concerned Lucas stepping up is down to Lucas, He took the sh.ite that was thrown at him and sometimes it was rightly deserved along with a few others i could mention, but he got his head down ,beefed himself up a bit by bringing in his own personal trainer , as i said he got his head down and grafted , hes sussed when to pass and when to play the ball not just side to side , he works hard on the pitch, and that is down to himself , not Roy or Rafa ,so as far as im concerned he at this moment deserves his shirt in the side ,

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