Liverpool FC Forum

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

metalhead wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:Such a shock, then, that the masterstroke of replacing a World-class manager with a mediocre one who was sold to us as a good motivator has resulted in such gutless cack on the field. But then, that'll be Rafa's fault as well.

World Class manager

We replaced a good one to an average, not a world class to an average.

I agree, Roy needs to go, its for the best.

If winning 2 Spanish titles and the Champions' league (and a further final) in less than a decade of management isn't World Class, what is?

Penguins wrote:We have been turned into Fulham, it's plain to see.

No away wins, gets famous victories at home vs the "big teams"

Sad in it

woof woof ! wrote:

Thommo's perm wrote:What have I been warned for?

Apologies, thought you could read.

Was convinced I told you it was for SPAM

metalhead wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

metalhead wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:Such a shock, then, that the masterstroke of replacing a World-class manager with a mediocre one who was sold to us as a good motivator has resulted in such gutless cack on the field. But then, that'll be Rafa's fault as well.

World Class manager

We replaced a good one to an average, not a world class to an average.

I agree, Roy needs to go, its for the best.

If winning 2 Spanish titles and the Champions' league (and a further final) in less than a decade of management isn't World Class, what is?

More than that.

Sir Alex is world class, Mourinho is world class, Paisley and Shankly were world class, why? because they showed some sort of consistency over the years with one club or different ones, Rafa didn't, he had a fantastic run with Valencia, didn't work out pretty well with us, and not doing pretty well with Inter (time will tell though).

metalhead wrote:Don't tell me he is better than Shanks!

Shanks took a mid table league one team and made them english league winners in 6 years. Rafa took a Champions League team and did not take Liverpool to a premier league title. spot the difference? Rafa inherited a world class squad from Hector Cuper in Valencia, but credit to Rafa he knew how to get the best out of them, which Cuper failed to do.

I don't think Benitez is great or world class, I thought he did a good job with us and in the end he took as long as he could.

Like I said - I disagree. I think Rafa is a fantastic manager and even though some refuse to admit it, his sacking was a preconceived parting shot by a pair of American who wanted to leave some kind of retarded legacy behind them.

LFC2007 wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:It's easy to look at results without analysing the reasons behind them. A quick glance at the injury record at Inter this season shows why they are struggling. (Injuries brought on in part by the 70-80 games + the World Cup played last season.)
The fact that Mourinho left an old squad behind with little-to-no provision for the following years (knowing full well he wouldn't be there long enough to worry about it) doesn't help matters. The well documented post-glory slump which every team goes through adds to the mix as well. All valid reasons why Inter are struggling, but all reasons dismissed by the people blinded by their hate for Rafa. (And it IS hate - "fat Spanish waiter", "Manuel", etc.)

Ah, the "any excuse you can think of" routine is back. The truth, as unpalatable as it might sound, is that so far he's done an awful job there. Injuries are one factor among many that go toward explaining why a team is where it is, but to use that - or indeed the age of the squad (see AC Milan), lack of quality in depth (ditto), or the idea of a "post-glory" slump (as if he's completely powerless to stop it, ffs - look how much Man U and Barca "slumped" after their treble wins) - to excuse the full depth of their decline is to deny the sky is blue. If any of the managers who are widely disliked by LFC fans, such as Roy or Mourinho, took such a side to such depths then people wouldn't dust off their box of excuses, they would say it exactly as it is.

For the record, this "sustained decline" being "1 season"? That, my friend, is not sustained, especially when we got to the semi final of the Europa cup. Had Torres not been injured against Benfica, who knows - we may well have won it.

Sustained decline, absolutely. One season that saw us go from 2nd and playing some very good football to 7th, and playing the most awful football we've played in years - or until this season, at least. And I don't for a moment accept the way in which you and others frame it as being "one bad season". That implies the others were "good", a term that doesn't capture all of the ups and downs throughout the whole of that period, and there were many - making it a lot less clear-cut than you and others would have it. The mistakes that led to our sustained decline accumulated in the seasons prior to last in terms of the players we let go, and those who replaced them. The striker situation, for instance, stretches back to 2008 when we signed Keane for £20m, and so too does the left back situation when we replaced Riise with Dossena. We built on that by fecking off Alonso and replacing him with Aquilani, who - even when fit - was often on the subs bench, and in the final season we also fecked off Riera whose contribution throughout much of 08/09 made a big difference as compared with Babel.

I didn't say that those were the only reasons for Inter's problems and I will thank you for not implying otherwise. That notwithstanding, I feel that these issues need highlighing on a forum hell-bent on pulling Rafa apart for no good reason. The perceived limitations of his managerial ability have been discussed to obsessive lengths, so I see no merit in covering them myself.

Regarding the decline and the Keane/Aquilani issues, every manager makes mistakes with which players they buy (Keane, although Rafa's level of involvement in that transfer is moot) and sometimes Doctors can give misleading/wrong advice (Aquilani). Ultimately, we recouped all but £1m of the Keane money, though, and Rafa was not given the funds to replace the player. (A deal was set up for Tevez, but the lovely yanks withdrew the pennies at the last minute). Can you honestly say that we would have finished 7th with him and Torres up front? That would have freed Gerrard up to CM next to Mascherano, and it would have been a whole new ball game.

It's all what-ifs, though. But the people responsible for them being what-ifs are the yanks. Far more than Rafa.

The Alonso and Riera issues - are you forgetting who signed them? No-one makes any issue when Fergie falls out with his players, Wenger with his, even Fat Sam with his. Why crucify Rafa for sticking to his guns? He was told he had to sell to buy - Alonso was the 1 he chose. Xabi went on to give his best season then left. (Rafa tried to keep him, but what can you do?)

I think you should lay off the bloke. He did nothing but good for this club and stuck up for us in the face of the owners.

metalhead wrote:I don't think many have said that he hasn't done good for the club ROF, of course he did, he delivered one of the best nights in our history and we should be proud. We also saw some of our best football since a decade under him. However, he is massively overrated in terms of management ability.

You're obviously not going to change your opinion, and I won't alter mine. To me, Rafa is a quality manager who I would welcome back here with open arms. You wouldn't, and that's what opinions are all about. 

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

metalhead wrote:I don't think many have said that he hasn't done good for the club ROF, of course he did, he delivered one of the best nights in our history and we should be proud. We also saw some of our best football since a decade under him. However, he is massively overrated in terms of management ability.

You're obviously not going to change your opinion, and I won't alter mine. To me, Rafa is a quality manager who I would welcome back here with open arms. You wouldn't, and that's what opinions are all about. 

Yep... sensible discussion

and we agree

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

metalhead wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:

metalhead wrote:

Ring-of-Fire wrote:Such a shock, then, that the masterstroke of replacing a World-class manager with a mediocre one who was sold to us as a good motivator has resulted in such gutless cack on the field. But then, that'll be Rafa's fault as well.

World Class manager

We replaced a good one to an average, not a world class to an average.

I agree, Roy needs to go, its for the best.

If winning 2 Spanish titles and the Champions' league (and a further final) in less than a decade of management isn't World Class, what is?

More than that.

Sir Alex is world class, Mourinho is world class, Paisley and Shankly were world class, why? because they showed some sort of consistency over the years with one club or different ones, Rafa didn't, he had a fantastic run with Valencia, didn't work out pretty well with us, and not doing pretty well with Inter (time will tell though).

I disagree. He won more with us in 6 years than Shankly did in the same period. He's won 2 league titles, 1 European Cup, 1 UEFA cup, an FA cup and a UEFA Super Cup with 2 different sides. He's also won the Italian Super Cup with Inter.

Apart from Milan, they were all won with unfancied sides competing against stronger teams. World Class isn't the ability to win when the tools are the best. It's winning when they aren't.

Igor Zidane wrote:

devaney wrote:I wish Igor and Ciggy would get a room preferably in Benidorm until the end of the season. !

F.uck off wierdo !!!!!!

So you dont want to get a room with me in Benidorm Igor? Im gutted lash 

Kop owners fail to shield Hodgson from fans fury

Liverpool owner John W Henry rattled Roy Hodgson with a warning shot about “unacceptable” results last night.

As Anfield militants peppered the club’s new American power brokers with calls to axe Hodgson, Henry provided his under-fire manager little shelter from the crossfire.

In a live phone-in on ­Liverpool’s in-house TV channel, Henry and chairman Tom Werner were left in little doubt about the grievances stacking up against their manager after Saturday’s derisory 3-1 defeat at Newcastle.

Hodgson had earlier acknowledged the ­chatroom rage by staging a long inquest into the shambles on Tyneside, which left the Reds with a pathetic five points from a possible 27 away from home this season.

Liverpool’s next four games – at home to his old club Fulham, away at Blackpool and an Anfield double header with Wolves and Bolton – will give Hodgson a chance to avert a full-blown crisis.

But Henry, the Boston Red Sox magnate who ousted hated cowboys Tom Hicks and George Gillett in a £300million takeover two months ago, offered only qualified support for Hodgson – and ominously spoke of handing Kop legend Kenny Dalglish a “more substantive role” at the club.

Henry said: “There’s no doubt about it that this season and the second half of last season was unacceptable for ­Liverpool, and we are in sync with the fans for what it’s going to take going forward.

“It doesn’t take a lot of time for the club to go downhill but it takes time to rebuild, and over the last two years there have been some short-term decisions which have really hurt the club.

“It’s up to us to turn the tide, but we are in it for the long term.

“We see this as an ­opportunity to return the club to where it was 20 years ago.

“Where we are at this point is not acceptable, but when I say rebuilding I mean building for the top of the table. That’s going to be really difficult to do this year and a real ­challenge next year as well.”

Of Dalglish, the club ­ambassador who enjoyed widespread support for a second spell in charge until Hodgson was appointed in the summer, Henry added: “We actually met a couple of times to talk about things.

“He needs to have a more substantive role within the club and that’s something we are working on with (director of football strategy) Damien Comolli.”

Werner said: “We had a lovely dinner with Kenny, his wife Marina and his son Paul – I understood about half of what he said, and I just nodded when I couldn’t understand.

“But we know what he means to this club, and we would be well-served with his spirit and tradition. We believe in what Roy is doing, and we certainly feel the performances have to improve.”


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