Liverpool FC Forum

by **Scottbot** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:47 am

john craig wrote:
Scottbot wrote:If we've got a bit of money and the manager somehow manages to keep his job then I suggest he goes all out to sign Hangeland from Fulham in January. We'd see better from from Carra from that moment on I guarantee it.

Definitely agree on this Scott. Carra has never been comfortable being the one to go and win the aerial battles. He has to do it when he plays alongside Agger or Skrtel because neither of them are comfortable doing it either and they don't take the responsibility. Not since Hyypia played regularly have we seen the best of Carragher. I don't think he can get back to that level again, but having a dominant centre half beside him, someone in the Hangelaand mould, would definitely improve Carra's game. In the meantime I'd play Kyrgiakos alongside him. I think the Greek's a solid defender and probably compliment's Carra's game better than the others.

Deffo, Carra has always read the game well, like all good centre-halves he see pictures before they develop and puts a stop to them. He can't do that when he has to go win all the headers. I'd agree on playing him with Krygiakos for the time being but Hangeland would be perfect, he's basically Hyppia mark II plus he is far more mobile and comfortable on the ball than the Greek.

by **Thommo's perm** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:48 am

Did Carra shout at Torres and Torres tell him to shush in the derby?

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:51 am

Hangeland and Carragher? Do you guys realize what type of horrible football these two would produce? We need to have one ball playing CB out there, if we want to see some decent football.

by **JC_81** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:59 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:Hangeland and Carragher? Do you guys realize what type of horrible football these two would produce? We need to have one ball playing CB out there, if we want to see some decent football.

Yeah mate. It would destroy the free flowing stuff we're producing on a weekly basis this season.

In all seriousness, there is some truth in what you're saying, but I think it's a myth that you need a 'ball playing centre half' to be a successful team. There aren't that many of those type of player around to be honest. Chelsea don't have one and they won the league last year. Ferdinand rarely plays for United these days, and when he doesn't they don't have one either, and they were the second best team in the league last year.

As long as you have a deep lying midfielder that is good at taking the ball off the centre backs and starting moves off then not having centre backs that are good on the ball isn't a big problem. Trouble for us is that we don't have any of that type of player either, not since we lost Alonso and Mascherano. That's the bigger problem, you can't have Lucas or Poulsen pulling the strings. That area is the root of most of our problems at the moment.

by **Rush Job** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:00 am

95k a week though? Seems more than a little over the top. He`ll be with us till the end of his contract now thats for sure.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:31 am

john craig wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Hangeland and Carragher? Do you guys realize what type of horrible football these two would produce? We need to have one ball playing CB out there, if we want to see some decent football.

Yeah mate. It would destroy the free flowing stuff we're producing on a weekly basis this season.

In all seriousness, there is some truth in what you're saying, but I think it's a myth that you need a 'ball playing centre half' to be a successful team. There aren't that many of those type of player around to be honest. Chelsea don't have one and they won the league last year. Ferdinand rarely plays for United these days, and when he doesn't they don't have one either, and they were the second best team in the league last year.

It's a total myth that gets MASSIVELY overplayed by fans. The days of 3-5-2, sweepers, Franz Beckenbauer and Mathias Sammer are long gone. Does Danny Agger really make any difference to our play going forward when he's in the side? Sure he might bring the ball out once or twice (if we're lucky) a game but that's about it. All this talk of 'needing' a ball playing centre-half is more of reflection on the rest of the team's inability to string 5 passes together than anything else. I want defenders who can defend. Than don't need to be 'ball players', I just want them to be tidy and composed on the ball and for the most part be able to give it to someone who has a better idea (and the ability) of what to do with it. Incidentally, Hangeland is a tidy player on the deck, much the same as our Sami was.

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:02 pm

Totally agree with John and Scott, Carragher is our best defender and it's not even close. Unfortunately our whole defence is pretty average to be honest, and it says much that despite being past his best Carragher is at the top of a very small tree. When Johnsons confidence has gone like it currently has, he contributes little going forward to compensate for his suspect defending, while Konchesky is taking time to find his solidity. The centre halves are all over rated IMHO, with Agger being the biggest disappointment of all, he simply hasn't developed as a footballer the way I'd hoped.

We are currently suffering from the same delusions with regards many of our players that we saw last season. Last season we tried to convince ourselves that Lucas was actually quite good really, Insua was an "up and coming" left back etc etc and we were getting beat every week. I was as guilty as any of over-rating our players, but once again we are showing this season that the reality is that we aren't actually that good. We do the same with Skyrtel and Agger. Skyrtel is decent but no better, he wouldn't get a game at any of the top teams, wouldn't get a game at Birmingham even. Agger whle being slightly better IMHO simply isn't a good enough defender to be considered top quality. Unfortunately he also seems to have developed a feeling that he is actually better than he really is as well. Benitez didn't play him for long periods, Hodgson doesn't appear to fancy him at all, and although it makes the blood of come of our fans boil for some reason when he isn't selected, he isn't that much chop really. Stick a Vidic or a Terry in our team and we'd be a completely different outfit, completely transformed.

We don't like to admit it as Liverpool fans, but take Torres or Gerrard out of our team (and you might as well consider Torres to be not playing at the moment) and we are a very average outfit. Carra is our best defender, and that's one of the reasons we are down the bottom of the league. There are many others, but that's definately one of them.

by **parchpea** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:16 pm

Garragher is on the slide but still has the edge on the dissapointing Skrtel and Agger. I would go so far as to say Kyriagos is a better defender than those 2, least hes a proper centre back who throws himself in and is agressive in the air. Agger seems to think hes too good a player to defend so maybe they should stick him as the holder so he can win it and pass if are to persist with the formation. Skrtel gets bullied, just isnt powerful or aware enough and concedes daft free kicks far too often. Yakubu mounted him big time in the derby, all over him he was. I would play Carra and the Greek at centre half as at least they are old school defenders and rather than the other two who just arent agressive enough on the floor or in the air.

by **mart** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:20 pm

Imo carragher is only considered out best defender because of past performances and where he comes from. Sorry but its been quite some time since he was our best defender. None of our CB are really top class, but on current form i'd say the greek is our best defender. Agger should be, but with his constant injuries i dont think he can be depended on as a first choice.

by **Penguins** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:12 pm

Carra our best dc??

Surely you are pulling me leg here...
He is without question our worst dc by a margin right now.

Take away his legendary status and scouse staus and he is not in the starting 11.

Best defender... :no

Is it just being deluded or just wanting to believe you see something else than he is producing each week.... that is the question

by **boodiddy1** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:50 pm

Its great football isnt it? Carra our best CB? Not a chance. He's the reson why we sit so deep because we are afraid of getting caught over the top.

To think that hangelaand and carra would be a good pairing, just shows where this club would end up if the fans were allowed their say.

We need mobile CB's. cahill at Bolton would :censored:

it. Young Wilson looks impressive also.

Carra's constant moaning is going to cause serious morale problems shortly, if it hasnt already. He's getting away with it cos he's scouse and no more. Skrtel would look far better at the side of cahill, or a player of the similar ilk.

We have to make him a squad player. Massively on the decline. IMO

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:18 pm

Scottbot wrote:
john craig wrote:
ruskiy playmaker wrote:Hangeland and Carragher? Do you guys realize what type of horrible football these two would produce? We need to have one ball playing CB out there, if we want to see some decent football.

Yeah mate. It would destroy the free flowing stuff we're producing on a weekly basis this season.

In all seriousness, there is some truth in what you're saying, but I think it's a myth that you need a 'ball playing centre half' to be a successful team. There aren't that many of those type of player around to be honest. Chelsea don't have one and they won the league last year. Ferdinand rarely plays for United these days, and when he doesn't they don't have one either, and they were the second best team in the league last year.

It's a total myth that gets MASSIVELY overplayed by fans. The days of 3-5-2, sweepers, Franz Beckenbauer and Mathias Sammer are long gone. Does Danny Agger really make any difference to our play going forward when he's in the side? Sure he might bring the ball out once or twice (if we're lucky) a game but that's about it. All this talk of 'needing' a ball playing centre-half is more of reflection on the rest of the team's inability to string 5 passes together than anything else. I want defenders who can defend. Than don't need to be 'ball players', I just want them to be tidy and composed on the ball and for the most part be able to give it to someone who has a better idea (and the ability) of what to do with it. Incidentally, Hangeland is a tidy player on the deck, much the same as our Sami was.

Watch some Barcelona matches and then you'll see how important it is to have a CB that's good on the ball. It helps a lot when theres a lot of pressure and you have CB that's comfortable on the ball. It also adds another option to breaking down teams that come to defend.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:21 pm

boodiddy1 wrote:We have to make him a squad player. Massively on the decline. IMO

So obvious and sadly true, but some people just cant see it.

by **Big Niall** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:07 pm

We all like Carra but I think his time is up.

I think Agger is by far the best centre back with the ball that we have and Carra is so uncomfortable on the ball that it is a major weakness, hoofing the ball away just gives away posession.

I'd go for Agger and Skrtel.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:17 am

I don't think he's necessarily past it. I do think there;s an overall unease at the back in every game we play, like we're nervous as fook every time the opposition even threatens. Maybe the players don't feel that way but I sure as hell do....

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