Liverpool FC Forum

by **supersub** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:12 pm

Big Niall wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Exactly Penguins anyone and everyone of the Rafa hates blew their tops till they were red in the face last season that Roy was going to motivate the players we had. We only needed 'a backup striker to Torres and 1 more'. We didn't even get a new striker in the end. But the point is for the most part we had a top 4 side last season, it was just 'low on morale'.

I , for one, never said that.

I said Benitez had destroyed the team, Alonso was our most important player but Benitez thinks Gareth barry is better. Then I pointed out that blowing 38m on a full back that cannot defend and an injury prone midfielder is a waste of our entire budget.

I also said that wasting 10m on Keane purchase/sale, spending 13m on babbel but rarely giving him a run, spending a similar amount on Kuyt and then playing him as a winger, buying players like Lucas/Pennant etc was a waste.

I also said rotation is nonsense as is zonal marking. I also said that he has terrible man management (none of our players really stuck up for him - did they?)

The list is endless. DON'T claim the "Rafa haters" said this team is top 4 material, I think Benitez built a poor squad and paid a fortune for it.

You also said winning trophies are a waste of time if it's not the premier league in fact coming 4th is better than winning any silverware bar the european cup......well I beg to differ and if Roy's future hangs on a win in Dublin come May and 3 points to avoid relegation, I'm sure you'll be toasting the tactical genius if he succeeds. Despite your insistance it was all Rafa's fault... this relegation battle :;):

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:12 pm

dawson99 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Is this now a thread going over previous manager and last season ignoring all the season before and trying to rewrite history discussion ?! As for the original topic - hodgson tactics set up and players he has brought has got us to exactly where we are right now - the manager himself is talking about relegation fight ?! Not good enough and he has to change his tactics and his set up and quickly .

we're 17th, it is a relegation fight at the moment, maybe hes trying to pump the players up? How would the players feel hearing they are in a relegation fight?

We are 18th - I'm sure the players like Torres will be delighted to hear they stayed at the club to fight relegation .

by **Big Niall** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:17 pm

supersub wrote:
Big Niall wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Exactly Penguins anyone and everyone of the Rafa hates blew their tops till they were red in the face last season that Roy was going to motivate the players we had. We only needed 'a backup striker to Torres and 1 more'. We didn't even get a new striker in the end. But the point is for the most part we had a top 4 side last season, it was just 'low on morale'.

I , for one, never said that.

I said Benitez had destroyed the team, Alonso was our most important player but Benitez thinks Gareth barry is better. Then I pointed out that blowing 38m on a full back that cannot defend and an injury prone midfielder is a waste of our entire budget.

I also said that wasting 10m on Keane purchase/sale, spending 13m on babbel but rarely giving him a run, spending a similar amount on Kuyt and then playing him as a winger, buying players like Lucas/Pennant etc was a waste.

I also said rotation is nonsense as is zonal marking. I also said that he has terrible man management (none of our players really stuck up for him - did they?)

The list is endless. DON'T claim the "Rafa haters" said this team is top 4 material, I think Benitez built a poor squad and paid a fortune for it.

You also said winning trophies are a waste of time if it's not the premier league in fact coming 4th is better than winning any silverware bar the european cup......well I beg to differ and if Roy's future hangs on a win in Dublin come May and 3 points to avoid relegation, I'm sure you'll be toasting the tactical genius if he succeeds. Despite your insistance it was all Rafa's fault... this relegation battle

Yes - I believe coming 4th is MUCH more important that this euro thingy we are in and the FA cup and the Carling cup all combined.

And no - I don't believe we'll be in a relegation battle. I think we'll finish in the middle somewhere (like last season). If we are in a battle in the end of the season then I'll be forced to join the "sorry Roy, it hasn't worked out" even though, in normal times, I think 3 years is needed.

by **sgs** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:21 pm

What is especially embarassing is watching the same daft pundits and fans who applauded what was always a flawed choice doing a kabuki dance in finding all manner of hare brained excuses for Hogson.

If we had any real football people in the Board we would cut our losses right now and sack this pensioner Hogson.

The key evidence in support of this drastic decision is right there on the field of play; the use of players, the assignment of roles; esp the lack of understanding of the strengths of players and their weaknesses and how best to deploy them, rather than simply going with what is popular, as in Gerrard in central MF, where frankly he is a disservice to the team; or playing Raul on the right...

The key evidence is his insistence on doing it the way he has done over 35 years of coaching mediocre teams and expecting it to work in a much different setting and level.

Roy Hogson is a disaster that already happened. Its how bad it will be that is yet unclear.

The mealy-mouthed bugs out there can find all the excuses in the world. It changes nothing about the evidence on the field. When a team plays, it leaves tactical imprints out on the field, which always tells you the truth about a team. What you choose to believe is ur problem...

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:23 pm

we finished 7th last year - not midtable. And that was Rafa's worst season.

There is no point in arguing with you though...you've made your mind up that this is all Rafa's fault even though you have been proven wrong.

by **tubby** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:27 pm

As much as I want him to step down now Purslow and co will probably hold of doing anything until the RBS situation is resolved. Unless of course this losing streak continues into November.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:27 pm

jacdaniel wrote:we finished 7th last year - not midtable. And that was Rafa's worst season.

There is no point in arguing with you though...you've made your mind up that this is all Rafa's fault even though you have been proven wrong.

How have I been proven wrong?

I said lets give the manager of LFC two seasons to see how he does in the job.

How can that be PROVEN to wrong?

Are you using the word "proven" the way some people use the word "fact"?

Also I didn't say we finished in the middle of the table. What defines mid table? there is no rule. We finished in the middle third of the table and that is a............well.........fact!

by **tubby** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:29 pm

Mate 2 seasons more of this and we will probably be a whole division away from the 7th of last season. And he has hasn't even had any injury troubles this whole time. Now Torres is out for probably a month it could get even more messy.

by **Big Niall** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:31 pm

bavlondon wrote:Mate 2 seasons more of this and we will probably be a whole division away from the 7th of last season. And he has hasn't even had any injury troubles this whole time. Now Torres is out for probably a month it could get even more messy.

Of course he'll have to be fired if we are still where we are in the table in the new year.

by **burjennio** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:31 pm

Big Niall wrote:
burjennio wrote:
Big Niall wrote:
Penguins wrote:Really funny this.

Last season was an utter failure and all Rafa haters said that squad should challange or at least easilty get into the top 4.

So now that Rafa is gone and Roy left with the same squad
7th isn't so bad after all with that same squad...

And this isn't a question of turning it around. Wasn't the sacking and change of manager supposed to get us back into the top 4?

What was the point if not...?

Benitez was sacked because after 6 years and loads of money that he spent the team was sliding, our CL campaign was humiliating and we were basically a mid table team.

Roy is just in the door, is stuck with Benitez's mistakes and has no money to spend.

Let's give him the shedload of cash Benitez got and 6 years and he'll do a lot better than the last bloke.

, making statements that no one agrees with you look like a biased, self righteous fool.

You think it wrong to give a view different to that held by the majority of people?

For whatever reason you edited my post to make it look like a personal attack when my frustration lies solely with your insistance on blaming the previous manager for all our problems using flawed logic, selective memory and historical rewrites. You are entitled to your opinion, but when the majority of people continually have to make posts specifically to counter your repeated attacks on the man who, for all his faults, most consider a success at Liverpool you are poking the bear so to speak when you absolve the current man in charge of any blame when it is clear for all to see that his approach to the game is clearly not working at the moment and either he needs to realize this or he needs to bed move on before a bad situation gets worse.

by **Benny The Noon** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:32 pm

Big Niall wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:we finished 7th last year - not midtable. And that was Rafa's worst season.

There is no point in arguing with you though...you've made your mind up that this is all Rafa's fault even though you have been proven wrong.

How have I been proven wrong?

I said lets give the manager of LFC two seasons to see how he does in the job.

How can that be PROVEN to wrong?

Are you using the word "proven" the way some people use the word "fact"?

Also I didn't say we finished in the middle of the table. What defines mid table? there is no rule. We finished in the middle third of the table and that is a............well.........fact!

Going by your definations if we dont get into the CL then manager must go - you have already stated that it is very important yet you say previous manager was a failure yet he got us into cl 4 seasons out of 5 and also won it - yet your saying we should give manager more time even if we go mid table ? so why didnt you give previous manager another season to turn around his ONE bad season which is looking like a lot better season than we will get this year - basically all your posts point to a pure hatred for previous manager and you try and rewrite history and ignore every bit of good he did for us .

by **supersub** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:33 pm

Big Niall wrote:Yes - I believe coming 4th is MUCH more important that this euro thingy we are in and the FA cup and the Carling cup all combined.

4th may be better for your televisual feast of Liverpool playing Tirimasu in the champions league and an occassional Chelsea semi and the odd game against an Italian or Spanish team but I enjoy going to the games and all that it is packaged with. So when cup finals come around it's a big deal for me...not just popcorn, hot dog and a can of Skol in front off the google-box....

by **jacdaniel** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:34 pm

Big Niall wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:we finished 7th last year - not midtable. And that was Rafa's worst season.

There is no point in arguing with you though...you've made your mind up that this is all Rafa's fault even though you have been proven wrong.

How have I been proven wrong?

I said lets give the manager of LFC two seasons to see how he does in the job.

How can that be PROVEN to wrong?

Are you using the word "proven" the way some people use the word "fact"?

Also I didn't say we finished in the middle of the table. What defines mid table? there is no rule. We finished in the middle third of the table and that is a............well.........fact!

What do you expect him to achieve?

Since the last manager ruined the club even though he won the champions league and FA Cup. and also had us challenging for the title 2 years ago under a very limited budget.

And you also said that the Carling Cup, FA Cup or Europa League aren't important.

Based on them points, Roy needs to win the title or you won't be happy?

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:41 pm

i just wanna see good football

by **Big Niall** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:44 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
Big Niall wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:we finished 7th last year - not midtable. And that was Rafa's worst season.

There is no point in arguing with you though...you've made your mind up that this is all Rafa's fault even though you have been proven wrong.

How have I been proven wrong?

I said lets give the manager of LFC two seasons to see how he does in the job.

How can that be PROVEN to wrong?

Are you using the word "proven" the way some people use the word "fact"?

Also I didn't say we finished in the middle of the table. What defines mid table? there is no rule. We finished in the middle third of the table and that is a............well.........fact!

Going by your definations if we dont get into the CL then manager must go - you have already stated that it is very important yet you say previous manager was a failure yet he got us into cl 4 seasons out of 5 and also won it - yet your saying we should give manager more time even if we go mid table ? so why didnt you give previous manager another season to turn around his ONE bad season which is looking like a lot better season than we will get this year - basically all your posts point to a pure hatred for previous manager and you try and rewrite history and ignore every bit of good he did for us .

Benitez had 6 years and probably mounted just 1 league challenge.

Let's give Roy 6 years and a huge amount of money too, then we will be comparing like for like.

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