Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:55 pm

Yes as you say Mick i didnt want Rafa to go , but he did and fair enough but i was expecting a different class of manager than Roy , i honestly feel he is out of his dept here , But i also said in another thread last night no one wants him to fail because if he fails Liverpool fail, He needs to sort it out sharpish , as you say we arnt Newcastle and as far as i know noone has turned on him yet , But this five games or not if we dont pick up soon then the tide could slowly turn , and we could end up just like Newcastle a mid to bottom table team,

by **rocky29** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:00 pm

its roys fault he should of got a fecking striker and play two upfront till nando gets his act together

by **burjennio** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:01 pm

He wasnt given the money for a striker, at least not a good one

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:11 pm

Yeah, I'm twitchy too but it's no time to feel vindicated about the choice of manager. The basic test was always whether or not Roy could re-establish us as a top four side and until that becomes a decidedly unrealistic objective it's probably better to resist the urge to confirm what you initially thought of his appointment. I'm not too sure of the connection between comments on an internet football forum such as this one, to the national press, and then on to managers and players alike, but simply from a forum and personal standpoint there's the risk you end up looking like a t!t, and I've no doubt there are people here willing to point that out further down the line.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:41 pm

What Roy Hodgson must do next to stave off crisis at Anfield
Adopt a more adventurous tactical approach

Tony Barrett.

No shots on target throughout Wednesday’s abject second-half performance against Northampton Town, a team ranked 69 League places below them, is as damning a statistic as is possible for a club of Liverpool’s grandeur and expectations.

It was not a one-off, either, as in both their previous Barclays Premier League matches, against Manchester United and Birmingham City, Liverpool failed to create any chances of real note from open play. An obvious lack of strength in depth in attack is part of the problem, but Hodgson’s strategy of sitting deep and not pressing play is also contributing to their impotence.

With just four goals scored from their opening five league games — only Wigan Athletic and West Ham United have scored fewer, while Blackpool have struck twice as many — the need for greater urgency going forward is obvious.

Make more positive public pronouncements

Before Liverpool played Manchester City, Hodgson said that he hoped to avoid a 6-0 defeat. It was a tongue-in-cheek, throwaway line after a number of Premier League matches had ended in that scoreline the previous weekend, but it also fitted in with a pattern in which he dampens expectations before and after games.

“My expectations were not that high anyway,” Hodgson said after a goalless draw away to Birmingham. Avoiding a heavy defeat was his aim before a pre-season friendly against Al Hilal, which was postponed because of heavy rain, while Northampton were billed as “formidable” opponents before the Carling Cup third-round tie.

Were Liverpool on a supreme run of form, such pronouncements would not be a problem, but when sixteenth in the Premier League they smack of negativity, particularly at a club whose managers traditionally have an unshakeable belief in their players, in public at least.

Solve the longstanding left-back problem

Different players, same old problem. When Courtney Herbert danced around Danny Wilson to set up Northampton’s second goal it evoked recent painful memories of Paul Konchesky being given a torrid time by Nani and Daniel Agger being taken to the cleaners by Adam Johnson.

The likelihood is that neither Agger nor Wilson is best suited to playing left back, while Konchesky is only in the early stages of his Liverpool career and deserves the chance to find his feet.

The latter needs a consistent run in the side, although the physical frailty of Fábio Aurélio, who was re-signed in the summer despite the longstanding injury concerns that prompted his initial release, makes it difficult for Hodgson to risk Konchesky in anything other than league games. But at least he now knows that his central defenders do not make ideal auxiliary left backs.

Stop showing faith in players who are not good enough

When Liverpool failed to bring in a centre forward in the most recent transfer window, Hodgson insisted it was not a serious problem because he could still call on Ryan Babel, who, according to the Liverpool manager, had “never been given a proper chance” to prove himself in that position.

Babel’s performance against Northampton proved why because he made no impact whatsoever against npower League Two opponents before being substituted to a chorus of boos.

“I failed personally,” Babel said on Twitter yesterday. It was a similar story in the Europa League play-off against Trabzonspor at Anfield, only for the cracks to be papered over when the Holland forward scored. Perseverance is no longer an option.

Give Fernando Torres the support he requires

On and off the pitch, the growing feeling is that Torres is lacking in the support he needs to reaffirm his reputation as one of the world’s most feared strikers. Hodgson had the chance to offer him verbal backing at the weekend when Sir Alex Ferguson accused the forward of cheating, only for the Liverpool manager to fail to offer a defence of his player.

It is a similar story on the pitch, where Torres cuts an increasingly isolated figure, deprived of the kind of backup that comes with a more adventurous attacking approach and which would allow him to play on the shoulder of the last defender, the position in which he thrives the most, more regularly. Torres has scored only once in six appearances for the club this season.

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:37 pm

I wouldn't dismiss any of that, although I do think we are closer to playing well with our first team than most.

by **Reg** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:59 pm

Whatever the reason, these are worrying times both on and off the pitch.

If Woy sells more deadwood in january we could be down to a 12 man squad.

by **Fauxy** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:06 am

Deadwood are just as good as having a 12 man squad though

Sell Babel, Maxi + Lucas.

Buy a winger + striker

Shelvey can cover for Lucas if needed. He is a better player anyways!

by **taff** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:07 am

There are always positives and I think we have to get used to Roys style. We also have to give him until at least xmas. It would be insane to get on his back now, even for pragmatic reasons of who else would come here, we have decent players and if Rafa and Roy cant get them playing as weve now witnessed then its obvious there are more dfeep rooted problems and who in their right mind would come to a club the size of Liverpool for the pressure and hassle it would involve. There is also the cult of the manager and none of them want to have a blip on their CV.

But IMO Roy has to switch on and realise he has taken on a monumental task where his every move is scrutinised a vast amount more than his last job. His jocular way with the press might be his style and endearing but we have been used to a more aggressive tact as the size of the club demands.

I am happy to give him time but I also think he has to do or say something to make his stamp on the club as it does seem like we are treading water at the moment

by **maguskwt** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:09 am

bigmick wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:So like you say when will or what will it take for you to get twitchy at Roy .

I'm twitchy already Nan, I'm not going to sit here and talk b0llocks, sit here and deny the sky is blue in order to make my point. Clearly we aren't playing well, and equally clearly if we went through the whole season playing like we are now then we would win feck all and not finish in the top four. I really want us to get back up there, so of course I'm twitchy. I was twitchy when Roy got the job, not like you because I didn't want to get rid of Rafa (I did and I'm absolutely convinced that was the right thing to do however Roy gets on), but because we really NEED Roy to be a success. Just like we really NEED Mereiles to be a success, I'd never heard of the bloke before we signed him but we haven't exactly got lots of cash right now, so 11 mill or whatever he cost is probably equivalent to us signing Torres for 20. It's a huge signing by the manager, and we really could do with it coming off.

If people get their wish (and since I'm being honest others might as well start at some point) and Roy does bomb out, what do they want to do then? Whoever comes in, whichever manager we get has got a hard job on his hands. Whoever it will do the job much better if the fans close ranks behind him and give him a chance. This is the bit I totally don't get about people, give Roy a shot FFS.

Yes we aren't playing well, yes yesterday was a disaster, and yes we are all twitchy. I'll tell you this though, the media are feeding off the forums, hoping we'll become another Newcastle. Not only that, but ironically if Roy fails it will enable them to have another go at Benitez, say he left behind a load of sh!t etc etc.

Others can please themselves, but I'm not buying into it. We have been poor for a long time and it's Roy's job to try and change it. Of course I'm concerned that when push comes to shove he might not be up to it, but he deserves a chance to give it a go. Five league matches is not a chance, it's not even a snapshot. We aren't Newcastle and we don't get rid of managers after a few matches. If we go down that route then we really are fecked.

That's actually a good post Mick (even though it took you 6 games of underperformance by the team to go from :buttrock

to a very balanced post like this : p).

For me personally, the manager has to prove himself one way or another that he is worthy to manage Liverpool because Liverpool deserves the best. I was a pro-Rafa but when we first appointed him I was skeptical of him not disimilar to how I'm skeptical of Roy now. He won la liga twice with Valencia but I thought it was only because real and barca were in decline. I thought why couldn't we get that guy who won the champions league with Porto? Yes I wanted mourinho ahead of rafa. Further on, I wasn't convinced our performances in the league. But rafa surprised me by our performances in the champions league and when we won it, he had my full support. Next season we won the FA cup, and the third season we reached the CL final again and broke our points total in the league. We were clearly progressing and that's why I always advocated giving more time for rafa. I believe this is how a manager should win the faith of Liverpool fans because we deserve the best. I will remain skeptical of Roy, but I won't be so unreasonable as not to give him time. He deserves a full season to make his mark (unless of course we end up in bottom 3 around x'mas time).

by **The_Rock** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:23 am

My take on RH so far is that he has to quit being so nice and diplomatic to everyone (ciggy raised this earlier and i agree 100% with her).

Before the manure match, all he can talk about is having wine with f@ck fergie ...... WTF ? A liverpool manager has to have some sort of arrogance with how he conducts himself both on the off the pitch. But not brownosing to that manure piece of $hit.

RH is too passive & reactive, He needs to step up to become more proactive (look to beat the other team rather than concentrating not to loose).

by **akumaface** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:50 am

Do you guys think that if we play with our best 11, we would achive better result than now? I do but Roy is not doing that even though we haven't been playing well. Is it politics, personal agenda, work ethics or performance during practice for Roy to decide who plays? He seems to have no clues and never saw him given out instruction during the game. In terms of the performance and result so far. I'm not as upset for the MU game as we can see we played well enough in the second half. But so far, we haven't been dominating lesser oppositions even during the West Brom game for Christ Sake. It is obviously that we had problems and why so many fans are pi.ssed and shout for changes is we can still salvage the season now. If we leave it by Xmas, all hope of getting to 4th would be gone. I think it is really funny when Roy said Nottingham is a formidable opponents and yet he put out a team like this. Don't tell me that a professional Manager wouldn't know that sh.itty performance would be expected if 11players that had never even played 1 full game together. If our 1st team played sh;t for most of the league games so far, how would he expect an unknown team full of reserve players will have a good performance. Why he didn't play a better team to have a convincing win to stop our bleeding and have their confidence back with an encouraging wins. Confidence is a strange thing, i think we have the players to acheive better result but they are lacking faith and confidence. The fact that if the players don't believe the system or think being too negative, then the result will only be negative. I think we need to have a younger manager with more fire and creativity and not some manager that is ok with bad result. I don't want to bet that if we do not make changes now, we will be so far out by Xmas. I don't want to bet on it as I want us to do better and it is more urgent than most think. I think some players mentality can still be changed now. If we wait for too long, most would think ok to lose and then the so called culture problem will be irreversable.

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:42 am

I think Roy should be given a few more matches and if theres no sign of improvement, then the club should replace him with Oneill. I hope I dont get too much abuse for saying that, but Martin is a much better manager than Roy.

by **bigmick** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:19 am

ruskiy playmaker wrote:I think Roy should be given a few more matches and if theres no sign of improvement, then the club should replace him with Oneill. I hope I dont get too much abuse for saying that, but Martin is a much better manager than Roy.

O'Neill was my first choice once it became obvious we weren't going to get Mourinho, but you don't get rid of managers after a few matches mate. It's been proven time after time after time after time that if you knee jerk and swap managers willy-nilly, you don't get success, you get the opposite.

I agree with you that O'Neill is a good manager, but Roy Hodgson is our manager and he deserves a fair crack of the whip. He hasn't had that so far.

by **Thommo's perm** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:49 am

I am not going to go on (like others) about Benitez other than to say his choice of team in the 2007 CL final brought home to me what the man was about.
A few points.
1. Roy succeeding. Mick is absolutely right:
"Yes we aren't playing well, yes yesterday was a disaster, and yes we are all twitchy. I'll tell you this though, the media are feeding off the forums, hoping we'll become another Newcastle. Not only that, but ironically if Roy fails it will enable them to have another go at Benitez, say he left behind a load of sh!t etc etc. Others can please themselves, but I'm not buying into it. We have been poor for a long time and it's Roy's job to try and change it. Of course I'm concerned that when push comes to shove he might not be up to it, but he deserves a chance to give it a go. Five league matches is not a chance, it's not even a snapshot. We aren't Newcastle and we don't get rid of managers after a few matches. If we go down that route then we really are fecked. Those who keep going on about his deficiencies and giving him til xmas have lost the plot. If he goes at xmas then we are well and truly fu'cked because there is NO-ONE of any stature who will take on such a poison chalice."
Be careful what you wish for...(Mon my ar'se!)

2. What Roy knew. I dont agree with Nan:
"He knew what hes was getting into , he knew what he was taking on before he came here "
Its one thing hearing about whats gone on in a club. Its quite another to actually be in there and find out the true extent of whats gone on. Roy may well have had some knowledge but he has only truly found out by being there. And to be honest I think hes sh'it himself when hes seen the state were in. He probably thought he had to clmb Ben Nevis but hes now realised its Everest.

3. What he needs to do. I agree with Barrett, especially:
"Make more positive public pronouncements"
Roy has got to take he bull by the horns and come out fighting. The players are on the floor confidence-wise and with no natural leader they need the Manager to tell them, and the world, that we are up for the fight. He now has to accept he has got the hardest job in football, roll his sleeves up and start swinging.
The negativity of certain supporters will, ironically be one of the hardest battles he has. They can help by stopping the constant whinging and by backing him and he can do his part by proving them wrong.

Were in this together guys. For better or worse, richer or poorer, till death do we part.
Otherwise its "Come on the Toon..."

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