Liverpool v everton - 16/01/11

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Postby only me » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:34 pm

Steve Crooks wrote:
only me wrote:
metalhead wrote:
only me wrote:If you can't see how desperate torres is when he plays alone then you are blind.

:laugh:

His best season when he scored was it 33 goals.. he played as a LONE striker.. your the blind one not me buddy

Guess what buddy this isn't that season and he isn't being serviced a lousy chip ,so as this is the case the 2 strikers option is the best one we have for now.

I just thank the lord that Kenny is the boss and not your good self!

You know what i agree!! I love Kenny and wish him and us the best. You have no questions and no doubt good for you. But let's be clear 2 games against weaker teams = 1 point.
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Postby Zidane » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:31 pm

I see things haven't changed.  Overall it's a very positive result based on what we have seen all season long, the problem is whether the players really believe that.  We have to keep building on things and this is another stepping stone to getting things fixed, we aren't that good a squad but we're playing the way we should play every single game now.  The players are more energetic and look lively for the most part but we need to start winning or it will all go to sh!t once again, even if Kenny is manager.  There was no problem with the lineup as seen in the first half but losing Agger shook up our back four and we quickly got on the back foot due to some bad luck, fortunately we recovered and almost ended up winning the match.. that's an achievement in itself imo. 

Anyway on to the players, Skrtel is so uncomfortable when defending it is nerve racking he has to be replaced asap.. and no, not with Carra.  People forget we've had these problems as long as I can remember and Carra has been part of the problem for the most part.  I've been saying over and over that our CBs are our problem and not our flanks, although our LB situation needs to be dealt with it isn't our major problem.  Meireles had a great goal but overall I thought he was as bad as he has been for a while now, he needlessly gives away possession far too much.  We can't give away possession so cheaply throughout the game like that and expect to win.  Spearing was a passenger in midfield as well, thought he would come out and do better tbh.  Lucas had a solid game in midfield yet again but he needs someone better alongside him.  I still would have preferred Raul in midfield with Lucas and someone else up front with Torres.  Glen had a great game and why people are criticizing him at all, not sure if anyone has yet but I'm sure they have, is proof that his criticisms are OTT and off the mark.  Kelly did well again and I agree with Kenny's post match comments that he is really hard to drop right now.  I'm worried about how he goes into headers though he fell really awkwardly more then once today and it looks like he could hurt himself eventually.  Maxi was great on the left again, shouldn't be dropped anymore until his form drops imo.  Kuyt worked hard and put in his usual shift, nothing wrong with him today really. 

Like I said overall it was a positive performance but we absolutely needed those 3 points and confidence still hinges on goals on the pitch, after the first half I knew that we needed a second before they got one or we wouldn't get the 3 points.  I just KNEW that we would concede and if it was before we had our second that we would be in trouble.  These are huge problems cause I know the opposition has that same feeling, if they go down 1 against us its not a big deal, we need a season or two to really rebuild the confidence in us and the fear in the opposition.
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Postby Bermenstein » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:32 pm

Judging by todays performance and many other performances, I think Kenny should use Dirk Kuyt as a Right Back!!

His defensive abilities are so much better than his attacking abilities. This would give licence to use maybe Johnson on the right side of midfield as been suggested so many times on this form. Everytime Kuyt went forward he was out of sorts. When he tracked back, he blocked nearly everything and marked up very well.

Kelly as centre half???

We've nothing to loose. Kuyt started out as a striker, then as a right Mid fielder, but his best position is defo Right Back!!
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Postby bunglemark2 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:38 pm

metalhead wrote:
bunglemark2 wrote:Only caught the last 15 mins or so...but what I did see, we looked pi$$ poor again....Another striker, a couple of decent centre-halves (or is there ANYBODY at ALL coming up through the ranks, if we don't have a pot to pi$$ in ??), a decent winger either side and we might have a half decent shout of a Useless Cup position at the end of this season...

mate, you should have watched the first half then, we were all over them.

Fairy nuff mate.....but 45 mins don't win you a match, eh ? 90 do...
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Postby Dundalk » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:11 am

Improvement today no doubt about it but we still look dodgy at the back. Pepe wasn't great today and I thought Kuyt and Skertl had poor games. Torres on the other hand looked sharp today and Kelly was strong.
The problem I had today with the team was that when we broke we were slow and allowed Everton time to get back. There is a lot of work to do but I think we can all take a bit of hope from the first half today. We WILL get better under Kenny
Last edited by Dundalk on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dundalk » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:23 am

Dalglish after second goal: "pass, pass, pass". Knows how LFC fans want side to play.
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Postby LFC2007 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:48 am

Dundalk wrote:Improvement today no doubt about it but we still look dodgy at the back. Pepe wasn't great today and I thought Kuyt and Skertl had poor games. Torres on the other hand looked sharp today and Kelly was strong.

The problem I had today with the team was that when we broke we were slow and allowed Everyone time to get back. There is a lot of work to do but I think we can all take a bit of hope from the first half today. We WILL get better under Kenny

I thought Kuyt was much improved in the first half compared with his recent form. His header and then shot from Johnson's cross allowed Meireles the chance to score from the rebound, and he also set up two other good opportunities, one was a ball he played into the feet of Torres near the edge of the box, having chased down a lost cause near the corner flag. The other was a weighted pass in behind the full back that Meireles latched onto for his second shot on goal - unusual for Kuyt to have success with that kind of pass. Second half, more mistakes crept in and his performance waned along with the rest of the team. He definitely plays better when we are doing the pressing deep into their own half. It's when there's distance to go and opposition players to negotiate that he really struggles.

You're spot on about Kelly. He had a little difficulty with Anichebe for a period at the start of the second half, but was otherwise assured in possession and strong in his defensive duties. You can't drop him in the form he's in. Torres too was a lot sharper and more dangerous than he has been for most of the season, unfortunate not to have scored with that brilliant individual effort that hit the post. Skrtel as per usual was his rickety old self, p!sspoor in the air and unable to take control of a situation, who we must replace with an authorative CB when we can find one. Johnson made in-roads down the left first half especially, but became a little too wasteful for my liking, clipping in at least two, if not three, crosses that evaded just about everyone at a time when we were struggling to gain momentum. Meireles, too, while he took his goal well and was effective in spells, lacked consistency in his passing and gave the ball away far too easily, far too often especially second half. Lucas was Lucas, I suppose. He did the usual sticking his foot in, blocking, putting himself about etc reasonably well..but he is inherently a very limited player and that shows whenever he plays....we need a more authorative CM with better all-round ability. Although he tried, Spearing looked completely out of his depth again, he just doesn't have the ability, plain and simple. Maxi was very quiet, but used the ball quite well when he had it. The others - Agger, Reina - were just OK, and Kyrgiakos a little less so particularly given his defending for Everton's second goal....as tempting as it was to come out, he should have held his position.
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Postby Kenny Kan » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:19 am

Emerald Red wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
metalhead wrote:our 2 center backs are just appalling, absolutely ruined the game for us, should have finished the game in the first half.

Skrtel :no

Agger?  ???

Agger was ok, its his partner who let us down today, sloppy for the first goal and let Beckford get away from him for the second.

I can understand his first wasn't as simple as him being poor. He was on the back foot. It's hard to jump off the deck like that. You could argue Johnson should have cleared the ball off the line too. His second was a poor mistake, granted, but when you isolate most center halfs like that, a good forward will almost certainly come out on top inside the area. I think people can be overly critical of Skrtel. He and Agger have shown signs of a good partnership at the back when all is well in other areas of the pitch.

'You could ague Johnson should have cleared it off the line' but really we shouldn't be having that arguement. Skertel is naff in the air, he was loosing his man for that set-piece and therefore it was his poor marking that gave Everton their goal back, not Johnson's effort. Skertel I'm afraid is a liabilty and for a fairly big lad he isn't that great in the air, he's more often than not caught flat footed. And the rest of his game isn't much better.

He isn't good enough, never has been.

As for Kenny's selection, well I don't think he should be blamed at all. He picked Spearing to help bolster and make the midfield more combative, it's just as shame Jay isn't really upto it. Torres played alone upfront, in the first half he looked the Torres of old, almost single handidly terrorising Everton's defence. He looks much more comfortable playing the lone role to me, provided he gets the service and in that first half today he got that and the rub of the green and he looked good. Johnson at LB is iffy, but the lad can hold his head high IMO he did well considering, aswell as Kelly on the otherside.

Agger was okay, again like Skertel is weak in the air and isn't that great at organising a defence and marking but he's better than Skirt.

Kuyt played well in the first half but his touch and passing at times is shockingly woeful for a fully fledged 'international' player. Maxi, was typical Maxi, in and out the game but when he was in he looked okay and perhaps should have done better when he skied his chance over the bar. He also had another chance in the first half where their midfield passed him the ball on the edge of the area and there was a massive gaping hole left between there two CB's. He went for a first time instep shot. I think a younger, quicker player would have controlled that and run through into the area a bit as there was ample space to do this before pulling off a shot, his legs unfortunately wouldn't have got him there - Maxi that is.

Meireles was okay, in the first half he did give possesion away a fair bit but he was one of our midifielders, perhaps the only genuine one who looked a threat with his runs and movement in and around the area. Lucas did his usual job, he did okay but we honestly still need better calibre players in mifield than what we have at the mo.

Just going back to Johnson at LB, although he doesn't look fully comfortable playing there he did do well IMO and it was his cross that led to our goal. I think he'll certainly do a better job there than Konchesky and even Aurelio and obviously Kenny thinks the same.

In a nutshell Kenny's only got the same players as Hodgson had to work with but you can see there's more belief in this team already. We're not sitting deep allowing teams to come onto us, we're going forward with the support of midfield and the movement is much better too, we look dangerous now, something we never looked under Roy, it was a totally different mentality.
Last edited by Kenny Kan on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby laza » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:32 am

Hard to say what I feel about the result, after open fifteen minutes where Everton had their chances we seem to completely boss them around and should have been 3-0 up by half time

Then in a few minutes of sloppy insanity we are behind the eight ball, nice to see guys dig in and get draw though.

Kelly was  a standout for me and Dirk looked a lot better in the second half. I also thought Meireles had a decent game capped with a nice goal. Torres looked much sharper though I really wish he would cut out the pentulant little kicks at defenders ankles.

Skrtel since his opening day rugby tackles against Gunners hasnt impressed me at all and this is just another game where his stock just gets lower

In end though much improved fight from guys when considering who wasnt in the line up and Im not real sure what people was expecting Kenny to do. Just because you break the emergency glass and put out that trusty fire hose, doesnt mean its going to stop raging inferno in an instant
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Postby metalhead » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:54 pm

I thought Kuyt was poor to be honest, I've lost count on how many times he lost the ball yesterday. Every time someone passes the ball to him he just can't control the ball properly because of his very poor first touch. our attacking momentum was being squandered when he got the ball.

Yes he huffed and puffed and worked his socks off, but Everton closed him down properly and exposed his weakness (which is his first touch)
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Postby red_guy » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:53 pm

IMHO, We need to offload Skrtel. Agree with Kenny Kan, he's a liability. If i am not mistaken, most of the goals we conceded this season came from Skrtel's mistake. Pity the lads busting their a.ss just to create and score goals and finally let down by the incompetence of our back line. We need Agger and Soto to play after this. Skrtel had enough chances and he's not good enough for the team.

By the way, yes we all know that  Kuyt is not a pacey, flair player but at least i'm proud of him just because of his determination, passion and work rate.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:28 pm

The thing about Skrtel is he is a much better player when Agger is alongside him ,the two seem to compliment each others styles
as soon as either is taken out of the equation it results in a mistake .... it may sound strange but the same could be said for Hyypia and Henchoz under Houllier  sometimes in football two players simply gel ...I still believe given the time Sami and Stephane had to develop their  understanding and overall solidity.....  then having the same patience  could pay dividends for the Reds with regards to Agger and Skrtel
Lets be fair Skrtel  was brilliant against the Mancs ..... I think Dalglish is nobodies fool and he will give the partnership time to evolve ,as for us fans I think the key word is patience .... with every display we see the team bonding more, with different players being scrutinised ,all the fringe players being given a chance to impress .... the transformation will be steady rather than rapid but it will keep us moving forwards even if the overall pace of our progression is somewhat slower than some expected ..... lets not forget who we have in place at the club now..........  Dalglish could go on to build a new team ,we could be witnessing the first tentative steps towards further greatness for this club ..... other than that he has breathed new life and a sense of optimism into the club just by his very presence and its showing in the atmosphere at games .....its now a pleasure to be there and feel the belief and faith returning
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Postby kunilson » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:47 pm

Apart from the first 15-20 mins of the 2nd half....was a pretty decent performance for me. especially the 1st half. if we had converted more of those chances we would have won, no doubt about it. However, to come back to atleast get a draw from a losing position was good to see, hasnt happened much this season!

Kelly was brilliant for me....Torres looked sharp again. Thought Spearing looked busy and Mereiles definately looked better than his last two performances. Skrtel is p!ssing me off at the moment. he needs to be dropped, far too many mistakes....and im not convinced with Johnson at left back yet but he didnt do too bad yesterday i dont think. Lucas was so-so first half, but broke was much improved in the 2nd half....still looked abit lightweight at times tho....Kuyt looks knackered these days, but as always he put in a good shift, and was decent enough to stay and clap all 4 stands at the end unlike the rest of them!

atmosphere was good where i was sitting....team showed a bit more belief too....we definately need atleast 1 good signing to give everyone a lift i reckon. striker = priority.

onwards and upwards....wolves will be a tough game no doubt about it.
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Postby red_guy » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:55 pm

Agree with you Red about the chemistry between Skrtel and Agger but i dont think we need to provide him with a quality partner  to justify his place in the first team or even in the squad. A good player is a good player. Just depending on others to be good is not the answer. It's not like he's playing as a lone CB, a good defender at least can play with other CB with the same or better standards. The thing is that the team suffers everytime he played without Agger besides him. How much longer can we endure that? For me,Skrtel is just an average defender.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:51 pm

red_guy wrote:Agree with you Red about the chemistry between Skrtel and Agger but i dont think we need to provide him with a quality partner  to justify his place in the first team or even in the squad. A good player is a good player. Just depending on others to be good is not the answer. It's not like he's playing as a lone CB, a good defender at least can play with other CB with the same or better standards. The thing is that the team suffers everytime he played without Agger besides him. How much longer can we endure that? For me,Skrtel is just an average defender.

I agree to a certain degree Red, and I'm not fighting his corner implicitly ,but I am saying defensive partnerships are usually built on forming an understanding between the CB's and this should be given time to grow ...Agger and Skrtel have had little time to form a consistent partnership .... but right now its the one that Daggers  has to persist with .... as I don't see Soto as having the mobility or the skill to adapt to playing alongside Agger ,Wilson is much too raw and with our precarious position in the table we can ill afford such faith in the lads ability ..Kelly however continues to justify his selection and could be utilised as a more than able replacement for Skrtel but that would mean weakening our right side by reintroducing  Johnson and to be truthful that could be even more detrimental to us climbing back into the top half of the table .......
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