LEEDS UNITED VS LIVERPOOL - carling cup discussion

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Postby bigmick » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:15 am

s@int wrote:The truth is if we have to rely on most of the squad players on show tonight for more than the odd cameo appearance in the league, we had better start trying in the cups....... because we would have NO CHANCE in the league.

None of them impressed, none of them took the chance to shine, and none of them come even close to challenging the more established players.

That is the reality S@int.

If we have to rely on he Greek for a sustained period at the back, we are fecked (I was concerned by his grapple with their striker from the ground, could easily have been a penalty for that piece of silliness).

If we have to rely on either Dossena or Deggen we are fecked. Neither IMHO are anywhere near good enough, and Dossena is just about as bad as I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt. A truly awful, terrible, astonishingly bad signing.

If we have to rely on Spearing we are fecked because IMHO he isn't and never will be good enough.

If we have to rely on N'Gog as a central striker if God forbid Torres get's injured, we are fecked.




So in essence, as long as Torres and Gerrard stay fit and play in practically every single match, we'll be competitive. We haven't got anyone who even remotely, slightly covers for either. As long as Carragher stays fit, Johnson, Kuyt and Reina, we have a good team.

It's going to be a roller coaster of a season, just for a change  :D .
Last edited by bigmick on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:26 am

s@int wrote:The truth is if we have to rely on most of the squad players on show tonight for more than the odd cameo appearance in the league, we had better start trying in the cups....... because we would have NO CHANCE in the league.

None of them impressed, none of them took the chance to shine, and none of them come even close to challenging the more established players.

exactly what i was thinking, some of the reserves did ok, but would that be enough in the premiership? i dont think so
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Postby Reg » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:38 am

bigmick wrote:
s@int wrote:The truth is if we have to rely on most of the squad players on show tonight for more than the odd cameo appearance in the league, we had better start trying in the cups....... because we would have NO CHANCE in the league.

None of them impressed, none of them took the chance to shine, and none of them come even close to challenging the more established players.

That is the reality S@int.

If we have to rely on he Greek for a sustained period at the back, we are fecked (I was concerned by his grapple with their striker from the ground, could easily have been a penalty for that piece of silliness).

If we have to rely on either Dossena or Deggen we are fecked. Neither IMHO are anywhere near good enough, and Dossena is just about as bad as I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt. A truly awful, terrible, astonishingly bad signing.

If we have to rely on Spearing we are fecked because IMHO he isn't and never will be good enough.

If we have to rely on N'Gog as a central striker if God forbid Torres get's injured, we are fecked.




So in essence, as long as Torres and Gerrard stay fit and play in practically every single match, we'll be competitive. We haven't got anyone who even remotely, slightly covers for either. As long as Carragher stays fit, Johnson, Kuyt and Reina, we have a good team.

It's going to be a roller coaster of a season, just for a change  :D .

I hate to say it but fair post.

However..... amongst themselves they look plain but placed indvidually amongst 10 better players and they'll probably survive. The Greek at the back, Ngog with Gerrard, Dossena on the left (as last season).

So together yes they looked bad but its not the end of the world. Afterall Phil Neal missed 13 penalties. Apparantly.
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Postby account deleted by request » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:55 am

Not apparently Reg..........actually :D

Phil Neal 03.04.1976 Everton H League
Phil Neal 05.03.1977 Newcastle H League
Phil Neal 04.02.1978 Coventry A League
Phil Neal 11.03.1978 Leeds United H League
Phil Neal 04.11.1978 Leeds United H League
Phil Neal 25.11.1978 Middlesbrough H League
Phil Neal 20.09.1980 Southampton A League
Phil Neal 01.01.1983 Notts County H League
Phil Neal 20.02.1983 Brighton  H FA
Phil Neal 07.05.1983 Aston Villa H League
Phil Neal 03.09.1983 Nottm For H League
Phil Neal 25.02.1984 QPR H League
Phil Neal 24.09.1985 Oldham H LC

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Postby Reg » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:08 am

Rose tinted glasses on their way to you via DHL.... :laugh:
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Postby ConnO'var » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:58 am

bigmick wrote:
s@int wrote:The truth is if we have to rely on most of the squad players on show tonight for more than the odd cameo appearance in the league, we had better start trying in the cups....... because we would have NO CHANCE in the league.

None of them impressed, none of them took the chance to shine, and none of them come even close to challenging the more established players.

That is the reality S@int.

If we have to rely on he Greek for a sustained period at the back, we are fecked (I was concerned by his grapple with their striker from the ground, could easily have been a penalty for that piece of silliness).

If we have to rely on either Dossena or Deggen we are fecked. Neither IMHO are anywhere near good enough, and Dossena is just about as bad as I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt. A truly awful, terrible, astonishingly bad signing.

If we have to rely on Spearing we are fecked because IMHO he isn't and never will be good enough.

If we have to rely on N'Gog as a central striker if God forbid Torres get's injured, we are fecked.




So in essence, as long as Torres and Gerrard stay fit and play in practically every single match, we'll be competitive. We haven't got anyone who even remotely, slightly covers for either. As long as Carragher stays fit, Johnson, Kuyt and Reina, we have a good team.

It's going to be a roller coaster of a season, just for a change  :D .

Agreed..... we'd be well and truly rogered if we have to depend on those guys.

One exception though mick...... I reckon the Doss could do a fair job as a back-up left mid.
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Postby TheLad » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:01 am

bigmick wrote:So in essence, as long as Torres and Gerrard stay fit and play in practically every single match, we'll be competitive. We haven't got anyone who even remotely, slightly covers for either. As long as Carragher stays fit, Johnson, Kuyt and Reina, we have a good team.

Of course, you could have mentioned Benayoun as well, but you can't stand him so it's understandable.. ???
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Postby bigmick » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:41 am

TheLad wrote:
bigmick wrote:So in essence, as long as Torres and Gerrard stay fit and play in practically every single match, we'll be competitive. We haven't got anyone who even remotely, slightly covers for either. As long as Carragher stays fit, Johnson, Kuyt and Reina, we have a good team.

Of course, you could have mentioned Benayoun as well, but you can't stand him so it's understandable.. ???

Eh? :laugh: What do you mean I "can't stand" him? I just think he's not as important the team as the players I've mentioned. He wouldn't get in a first choice eleven if I was picking it and everyone is fit, but that hardly qualifies as me not being able to "stand" him :D.

I tell you people on here could start a row in an empty room   :laugh: .
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Postby abbiedukes » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:04 am

This was a really difficult match as expected because Leeds are a difficult side to beat taking into account how they've been playing of late.

I was glad to see Spearing make his first start for the senior team and was also impressed with the contribution made by him, Degen, Ngog and the Krygaros (spelling).

Babel played well again in consecutive games on the far right and it seems like this position fits him well better than when he plays on the far left. I think he swithced from playing on the right in the 1st half, to playing on the left during the 2nd half and even as a striker when Ngog was subtituted.

Glad to see Aurelio back in action.

Watch the goal highlight:

http://www.liverpoolfcgoals.webs.com  :eyebrow
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Postby Owzat » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:58 am

lakes10 wrote:how much did we pay for some of them?
i know some were free but the rest !!!!!!!!!!!


bloody hell how bad was that

I thought I heard mention of the XI being worth COSTING £50m

Carragher YOUTH
Spearing YOUTH
Degen Bosman
Aurelio Bosman
N'Gog £1.5m
Kyrgiakos £2m
Diego £3m
Dossena £7m
Riera £8m
Babel £11.5m
Mascherano £18.6m

Believe it or not, with four zero fees and three £3m or under, that cost £51.6m! And the squad cost over £100m, two of our three most expensive players on the bench.


By the way, this was our THIRTEENTH game in a row without a draw. That isn't a record under Rafa, we went SEVENTEEN games without a draw in 04/05 between 19/12/04 and 09/03/05. Of course it says it all that the draws either side of that run were at home to Portsmouth and Blackburn, games we should be winning. Defeats during that run included the mancs and Chelsea at home, BURNLEY in the cup, brum, barcodes and Southampton away with the League Cup final defeat making up the seven defeats (P17 W10 D0 L7 F26 A17)
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Postby Owzat » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:01 am

bigmick wrote:I tell you people on here could start a row in an empty room   :laugh: .

I think most arguments start because of empty heads
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Postby Ciggy » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:08 am

Owzat wrote:By the way, this was our THIRTEENTH game in a row without a draw.

Dont bloody jinx us Owzat  :sniffle
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Postby Owzat » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:14 am

bigmick wrote:
s@int wrote:The truth is if we have to rely on most of the squad players on show tonight for more than the odd cameo appearance in the league, we had better start trying in the cups....... because we would have NO CHANCE in the league.

None of them impressed, none of them took the chance to shine, and none of them come even close to challenging the more established players.

That is the reality S@int.

If we have to rely on he Greek for a sustained period at the back, we are fecked (I was concerned by his grapple with their striker from the ground, could easily have been a penalty for that piece of silliness).

If we have to rely on either Dossena or Deggen we are fecked. Neither IMHO are anywhere near good enough, and Dossena is just about as bad as I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt. A truly awful, terrible, astonishingly bad signing.

If we have to rely on Spearing we are fecked because IMHO he isn't and never will be good enough.

If we have to rely on N'Gog as a central striker if God forbid Torres get's injured, we are fecked.




So in essence, as long as Torres and Gerrard stay fit and play in practically every single match, we'll be competitive. We haven't got anyone who even remotely, slightly covers for either. As long as Carragher stays fit, Johnson, Kuyt and Reina, we have a good team.

It's going to be a roller coaster of a season, just for a change  :D .

I think N'Gog is ok, although I am wondering where a certain Ukrainian was. I couldn't believe Rafa's substitutions, then again I think Saturday was the first time in a long time a substitution seemed to be based on what was happening in the game more than preset and routine.

The Greek CB was just for cover, based on theoretical strengths. We sold Warnock and brought in FBs like Dossena and Degen (free) Spearing will probably go the way of players like Guthrie and Mellor, get the odd chance then be shipped off.

N'Gog has scored five in 22 appearances, not bad for a benchwarmer who gets about 32 minutes per appearance on average - Babel averages 46 minutes per appearance

N'GOG

90+ mins : 2 apps, 1 goal (0.500 goals/app, 180 mins/goal)
60-89 mins : 4 apps, 2 goals (0.500 goals/app, 139 mins/goal)
30-59 mins : 1 app, 0 goals
0-29 mins : 15 apps, 2 goals (0.133 goals/app, 97 mins/goal)

So minutes per goal is 142 overall compared to a certain Fernando Torres who scores every 128 minutes.

MINUTES PER GOAL (SELECTED/RECENT STRIKERS)

128 Torres
142 N'Gog
147 Fowler
------------------
189 Crouch
257 Keane
268 Kuyt*
------------------
279 Voronin
299 Bellamy
318 Babel*

*put in because they have played striker, but do take into account that Kuyt and Babel both play wide more than up top. The lines mark the 180 and 270 minutes marks, or two games and three games worth of minutes.
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Postby Owzat » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:27 am

Zidane wrote:
RedRoots wrote:I think tonight has put to bed the belief held by some fans that Spearing would be a better starting option than Lucas.

Indeed, from what I saw he looked bad just like he didn't belong and I actually like the lad so it was disappointing to see that.

I didn't see the point playing Mascherano against a third tier side, especially as we wanted the game decided one way or the other by the 90th minute - or 4-6 minutes into stoppage tmie, no wait it wasn't the mancs at home and three points at stake.

I'd have played Lucas and Spearing, would have rested Carra who barely gets any time off despite growing consensus he might be getting a lot more time of very soon.

A lot is ALWAYS made when we put out our reserves, all the usual c ra p lines are trotted out about how Liverpool are in trouble if they get injuries and that the back-up isn't good. But the fact is we'd have to suffer half a dozen injuries for the league side to look like that and ANY SIDE would struggle with that many injuries regardless who their next best XI is. We were without Reina, Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Gerrard, Lucas, Kuyt, Benayoun and Torres in the starting XI. 6-9 of them get injured and we would be fecked, no sh i t sherlocks. But then so too would Chelsea if they lost the same numbers from Cech, Terry, Cashley, Essien, Bosingwa, Ballack, Lampard, Drogba and Anelka. Or the mancs without Van Der Sar, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Giggs, Carrick, Giggs, Berbatov and Rooney.

Maybe their benches are slightly stronger than our's, but take out even their key striker (Torres equivalent), key midfielder (Gerrard equivalent), their preferred wide players and half to two thirds of their defence and even their back-up is on the bench for a reason - because it's not as good as the preferred starters, duh.


So job just about done, I expect we'll draw a Premiership side away in the next round. The side won, I guess that is all that matters although not using Gerrard and Johnson would have been preferable.

What worries me now is we have three away games coming up on the bounce, after Hull I think it is Fiorentina away then Chelsea away and then another league game away. What odds the mancs have two home games in a row? In fact they played in Turkey so will be home in Europe next, played at home on Sunday so should be away next and then home so I reckon they have away next then three consecutive at home.  :veryangry
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Postby Johnny Boy » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:22 am

I thought Degen did ok and would be alright as a back up for Johnson, I think it's unfair to compare him with Dossena who cost £7 million and is just truly awful.
I know which one I would rather give a chance to.

Every time I see Dross play it pains me the money we spent on him.

Not many other positives for me, Spearing we all want him to be good because he is a local lad and it's nice to see someone coming through and given a chance - I just didn't see anything that suggests he is good enough for Premier League level.
Babel seems to have a bit of belief back, lets see him progress now hopefully.
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