Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Been relegated with how many clubs now ? 2 ? 3 ? bombed at derby as well .

[bigmick]

Well we haven't won anything for three seasons which brings us back to the other discussion. Are there any other managers in World football who are capable of managing us and not winning any trophies? Yes in all probability there are, which is why if we won something even minor fairly soon, it would put that one to bed.

It's impossible to say for certain if any other manager would do better than Rafa or worse. I think based on the balance of possibility from what we know, neither Glan Roeder nor Juande Ramos would do as good a job as Rafa. We know this based on their respective records etc. Equally, based on the balance of probability it is possible to imagine some other managers may have even done better than Rafa. My own thoughts are as I've said many times that we had an absolutely golden opportunity to win the Premiership last season for instance. I think that in the fullness of time, we will come to realise just how perfectly a number of factors aligned in our favour. Nobody will ever know for sure so in many ways it's a pointless discussion, but my belief is that if Mourinho had been our manager last season we would have won the title.

[GYBS]

If we won just a minor trophy next season do you think people/fans would be content with that or would the knives be out for Rafa because its not the one we all want or it wont be the CL . Or will it depend on where we finish in the prem ? 2nd and a minor trophy maybe just about ok but 4th and a minor trophy ?

[Judge]

has to be the league this time around

[DrPepe]

i think you have to keep the domestic cup count ticking over to keep big4 gloryhunters supporters happy (& the players too!)

Ged did this well, although he had his periods without...

ps. for the record i don't think mourihno would have been any more succesful in bringing the league. He may made some difference to last season , but  would he have lasted in the job as long as rafa?

[babu]

ps. for the record i don't think mourihno would have been any more succesful in bringing the league. He may made some difference to last season , but  would he have lasted in the job as long as rafa?

fair point. He would have walked the moment the owners broke a big promise, eg transfer kitty or stadium.

Not to mention tapping up another manager.

[GYBS]

I think an FA Cup and a second place finish would be enough to keep Rafa in his job . I guess it all depends on the circumstances of the season - he does have a big long contract so maybe no matter what happens this season he will be here for longer .

[Reg]

Ged did this well, although he had his periods without...

You're right Ged did well but looking back I dont see he had a long term gameplan, he was living season by season. Rafa has reorganised the club and is looking 2-3-4 years forward with the new academy set up, scouting etc... Rafa seems to be far more of an all round professional than Ged who was just an old fashioned footy manager.

And I agree, Joss the Toss would have walked, his ego would have been too strong.

[bigmick]

People seem to me to be so jumpy they seemingly can't get the right end of the stick. I'm not saying for one minute that Rafa needs to win a domestic cup to keep his job, far from it. I merely answered the inevitable and predictable "well who else is there" with the equally inevetiable fact that as we haven't won anything for three seasons, there's plenty of people. Rafa doesn't NEED to win something to keep his job, but it would be nice before too much longer.

As for the Doc's 'gloryhunter' line, not one of your best mate. Surely ALL fans want to win a trophy occasionally? Doesn't mean you won't still follow the club if it doesn't come to pass, but wanting to win the odd trophy here and there hardly makes you a 'gloryhunter', don't be daft.

As far as Houllier is concerned, I've always maintained Rafa is much the better manager. That said, as a couple have mentioned Houllier did win the occasional trophy. Rafa will going forwards too I'm pretty confident of that.

On the question of Mourinho, I agree that it is unlikely he would still have been at the club by now, had he have started at the same time as Rafa. Equally, you could argue with some certainty that he wouldn't have bought exactly the same players as Rafa therefore we wouldn't have the same team, so therefore we may or may not have had an equal chance of winning it had he been the manager from the start. We will as I said never know. I am merely stating my opinion that had he been our manager for LAST season, with the same team, we would have won the title.

Anyway, he isn't our manager and isn't going to be our manager, and the one we've got has got the hang of things now after five seasons so onwards and upwards.

[GYBS]

Mick i wasnt saying that you were saying that Rafa needs to win a trophy to keep his job i was asking your opinion on wether you think if we won a minor trophy but didnt win the league do you think that would please the fans enough .

[DrPepe]

As for the Doc's 'gloryhunter' line, not one of your best mate.

that's an over-reaction or a misunderstanding of my "gist", BM.

as you say, we all want glory for our club

[bigmick]

The only thing that will ultimately "please" the fans is winning the league I think. That said, most fans are not mugs and they realise winning the league isn't easy. It's not every season Chelsea sack their manager half way through it, the Mancs fall out of the blocks and have to go to Brazil to play in a jamboree mid season, and Arsenal sell half their best players and see the other half injured for most of the campaign. Normally, to win the league you've got to get past some pretty good teams and you need a bit of luck along the way. It isn't easy.

With that in mind, I think it's quite nice if you can pick up the odd FA Cup or Carling Cup along the way. Obviously one league is worth five FA Cups or maybe more, but unless you win things occasionally you become another Villa or Everton.

Ultimately though, it's the league where it's at. I just think it would be unwise to put all our eggs in the one egg box given how hard it is to win it in a normal season, without the circumstances previously mentioned. Next season we may well find it a good deal harder to win, and in which case while we're giving it our best shot I'd be pretty made up if we won the FA Cup as a little consolation should we eventually fall short.

[DrPepe]

The only thing that will ultimately "please" the fans is winning the league I think. That said, most fans are not mugs and they realise winning the league isn't easy. It's not every season Chelsea sack their manager half way through it, the Mancs fall out of the blocks and have to go to Brazil to play in a jamboree mid season, and Arsenal sell half their best players and see the other half injured for most of the campaign. Normally, to win the league you've got to get past some pretty good teams and you need a bit of luck along the way. It isn't easy.

With that in mind, I think it's quite nice if you can pick up the odd FA Cup or Carling Cup along the way. Obviously one league is worth five FA Cups or maybe more, but unless you win things occasionally you become another Villa or Everton.

Ultimately though, it's the league where it's at. I just think it would be unwise to put all our eggs in the one egg box given how hard it is to win it in a normal season, without the circumstances previously mentioned. Next season we may well find it a good deal harder to win, and in which case while we're giving it our best shot I'd be pretty made up if we won the FA Cup as a little consolation should we eventually fall short.

it's not every season the league champions lose "the best player in the world" (81 goals in the last 3 seasons)... so i'm hoping Ancelotti takes a while to bed in to the premier league too

if we learn and improve from last season we might just be getting another crack at the title...(against "weak"  oppositon )

[GYBS]

Ok thank you mick and will agree with most of the post - yeah it will be nice for us to win a few trophies will going for the holy grail , i guess it will depend on how far we go into each competition and how many fronts to fight on , it would be hard to go for the FA Cup with any serious conviction if your up their in with a shout of the league and your into the knockout stages of the CL . While it is also hard to have a good crack at the League cup with your first team squad as the months of september,oct and nov is when you want to be putting markers out there . Sometimes (most times) you have to judge which competitions to go for as a priority , but a nice friendly couople of draws in the cups would help a long way .

[bigmick]

The only thing that will ultimately "please" the fans is winning the league I think. That said, most fans are not mugs and they realise winning the league isn't easy. It's not every season Chelsea sack their manager half way through it, the Mancs fall out of the blocks and have to go to Brazil to play in a jamboree mid season, and Arsenal sell half their best players and see the other half injured for most of the campaign. Normally, to win the league you've got to get past some pretty good teams and you need a bit of luck along the way. It isn't easy.

With that in mind, I think it's quite nice if you can pick up the odd FA Cup or Carling Cup along the way. Obviously one league is worth five FA Cups or maybe more, but unless you win things occasionally you become another Villa or Everton.

Ultimately though, it's the league where it's at. I just think it would be unwise to put all our eggs in the one egg box given how hard it is to win it in a normal season, without the circumstances previously mentioned. Next season we may well find it a good deal harder to win, and in which case while we're giving it our best shot I'd be pretty made up if we won the FA Cup as a little consolation should we eventually fall short.

it's not every season the league champions lose "the best player in the world" (81 goals in the last 3 seasons)... so i'm hoping Ancelotti takes a while to bed in to the premier league too

if we learn and improve from last season we might just be getting another crack at the title...(against "weak"  oppositon )

Once again it's all opinions, but mine as I've said before is that we will find it MUCH harder next season. I've already said that if we finish 10 points back in third (which I think is a distinct possibility) many will be saying we've gone backwards but I think it will be more complex than that.

The "golden opportunity" theory will get its true tester next season. Lets hope next season is just as "golden" as this last one was, we'll see.