Liverpool FC Forum

[66-1112520797]

And certainly I think that other big clubs in England did well in putting some time and confidence in their managers. If 2 (possible) Champions League aren't enough to give him the credit, and winning the F.A cup isn't a proof of adapting to the english game, then I can't argue much more

I'm sure Liverpool will put time and confidence in Rafa, they always do so there isnt going to be anything different there.

But winning the F.A cup IMO isnt proof that the manager has adapted to the English game, know way !
Winning the league means that mate, Mourinho's adapted he's won it and on more than one occasion in a short period of time. I know he was helped finacially and people will point that out, but believe me it still takes a world class manager to win the league.

If people were to use Chelsea's finacial clout as the main example of them winning the league  aswell as the manager. Well then in theory now or next season we'll have both, the money and the man so lets wait and see.

[112-1077774096]

we dont need to switch managers, we just need rafa to realise that the league is more important than the champions league, its a true measure of success.

the last three seasons rafa has really shown no interest in the league, this is obvious.


all i will say guys in relation to rotation and tiredness,

man utd, no rotation policy at the start, chance of 3 trophies


chelsea, no rotation policy at the start, chance of 4 trophies


i dont see any tiredness there and lethargy in games, thats because they still have things to play for, they have the title to play for. us in the league, especially on saturday looked like we couldnt be @rsed.

if we fail in the champions league then this season will be a disaster

[Effes]

Hypothetical question here.
If I was offered the following in the next 3 years:

A) 2 Champions League - 0 Titles

B) 0 Champions League - 1 Title

I'd take B - any time of the day.

This is turning into a Rafa thread, it seems.
But I think that's just an indication of who people think are responsible for the poor away form.

I can think of 3 reasons off the top of my head:
IN THIS ORDER:

1. Manager faffs with tactics and DVD's/stats (and mad lasers things that track players' movements).
2. Captain not strong enough
3. 2 defensive midfielders

[Sabre]

And certainly I think that other big clubs in England did well in putting some time and confidence in their managers. If 2 (possible) Champions League aren't enough to give him the credit, and winning the F.A cup isn't a proof of adapting to the english game, then I can't argue much more

I'm sure Liverpool will put time and confidence in Rafa, they always do so there isnt going to be anything different there.

But winning the F.A cup IMO isnt proof that the manager has adapted to the English game, know way !
Winning the league means that mate, Mourinho's adapted he's won it and on more than one occasion in a short period of time. I know he was helped finacially and people will point that out, but believe me it still takes a world class manager to win the league even still.

If people were to use Chelsea's finacial clout as the main example of them winning the league, aswell as the manager. Well in theory now or next season we'll have both, the money and the man lets wait and see.

Understanding the English game is necessary in order to win the league, I agree. But you also need deep squads, deep squads are for me one of the most important things alongside good planification.

The first year Rafa had a lot of deadwood. The second year he hadn't a right winged man and had o play with Gerrard there. The third year we lost Hamman and Kronkamp and we only filled the gap in Winter, it WAS ABOUT TIME, we had a decent midfielder to fill the gap hamman left.

Look at what team we played against Arsenal in the CUps. You played Guthrie, and Paletta, they bring Baptista who come from Real Madrid. IMHO Rafa was close but hadn't the resources to win the league. A not deep squad struggles a lot more when you have the injuries like Fabio Aurelio or Luis Garcia.

Decent points in this thread. I think indeed SOME of the lining ups of the first part of the season were wrong. I disagree but I accept the 4-5-1 is shíte arguement (I think that we wouldn't have lost against Everton away when we went there with that system, totally dominated game and we got caught in 2 counterattacks). We do need to improve, and we'll get the league. 

[66-1112520797]

The first year Rafa had a lot of deadwood

He won the CL with the deadwood he inherited, he got the best out of players like Traore and Biscan that season and a few others.

That to me means, winning the CL is either :

a) An easy trophy to win
b) It was a fluke we won
c) Rafa is able to get the best out of what he's got.

Now I'd like to think 'C' was the answer, but if thats the case why hasnt he been able to exactly the same with a better squad this time around in the league ?

[112-1077774096]

we didnt lose hamman, rafa let him go. we didnt have a right sided player because rafa chose to put one of worlds best attacking central midfielders on the right. ok a big squad is important but not as important as quality over quantity, i am sure we can have a squad of 200 players but all of them rubbish and earn a tenner a week.

with regards to the everton game, we did lose that game, it doesnt matter how many chances we created blah blah blah, we lost. and at the end of the season that means we are three points further adrift.


keep coming up with excuses, thats a sign of weakness. its better to just be honest and highlight the failings, the fact is we are no closer to winning the league than we were when rafa came, of course there are many factors in this, but in my opinion the main factor is the manager being too uncertain about many things, he even said himself round christmas time that he didnt now what his best team was, and thats a scandal however you want to dress it up

[kunilson]

i wouldn't say that rafa has had no progress in the league....last season WAS our biggest tally in the "premiership", and we managed to stay above Arsenal for a possible 2 seasons.....he brought in new players to adapt his rotation FOR the league mainly.
I think he knows how important it is to Liverpool fans to win the league, this season he has made obvious mistakes and that is the point i agree with, his stubborness(sp?)

He is good at what he does, he has the tactical brain of a chess grand champ in footballing terms, maybe the pressure of not only our fans but media questioning about his rotation made him act out of pride more when there was no need just to prove a point, which ended up in us dropping points.....as u can see he recently has promoted his rotation policy again, and if he was just goin about his business he wouldn't need to explain himself.....

[Lucky]

we dont need to switch managers, we just need rafa to realise that the league is more important than the champions league, its a true measure of success.

Well said. The CL champion is really great, but the EPL champion is much more than great. Even not being an English, I have the strongest aspiration for us to win the league title. Not because that I cannot stand utd or chelsea's fans mocking "when was your last time to win the league title? Oh, it seemed a very very long time ago, right?" I want us to win it just because I want us to be the best! I like rafa when he play us in Europe, quite fantastic. And I believe he has the ability to bring us the league title if he puts more interest in it and adjust some of his stubborness.

[Sabre]

we didnt lose hamman, rafa let him go. we didnt have a right sided player because rafa chose to put one of worlds best attacking central midfielders on the right. ok a big squad is important but not as important as quality over quantity, i am sure we can have a squad of 200 players but all of them rubbish and earn a tenner a week.

with regards to the everton game, we did lose that game, it doesnt matter how many chances we created blah blah blah, we lost. and at the end of the season that means we are three points further adrift.


keep coming up with excuses, thats a sign of weakness. its better to just be honest and highlight the failings, the fact is we are no closer to winning the league than we were when rafa came, of course there are many factors in this, but in my opinion the main factor is the manager being too uncertain about many things, he even said himself round christmas time that he didnt now what his best team was, and thats a scandal however you want to dress it up

Correct me if I'm wrong but Rafa did try to sign a man for the right wing last season. In fact, he seemed to need it badly, as he was ready to sign up Victor from Deportivo although eventually didn't happen because Deportivo put more troubles than expected. Gerrard playing on the right wasn't more than a patch. A patch that was succesful because he's a superb player, but a patch.

The Everton comment wasn't an excuse, but a point. We played that game with the all-mighty and attacking 4-4-2 system and we lost. After dominating all the game. And we lost in counterattacks. A 4-5-1 system has advantages aswell, and defensive and attacking are relative concepts. I preffer to see a "boring" (I say tactical) game and win 0-1 than an attacking (I say reckless) gung-ho system that is nice to watch and we lose 2-0.

keep coming up with excuses, thats a sign of weakness. its better to just be honest and highlight the failings, the fact is we are no closer to winning the league than we were when rafa came, of course there are many factors in this, but in my opinion the main factor is the manager being too uncertain about many things, he even said himself round christmas time that he didnt now what his best team was, and thats a scandal however you want to dress it up

A scandal?

Man management in my view. If you have 16 men with quality and you announce 11 are fixed you are doing no favour for the team. If you instead don't speak about a fixed eleven you'll have 16 men competing with all the strenghth and commitment.

Nowadays squads are much more complete than in the eighties. More games are played, mini league based European competitions, etc. The subs in the eighties were more back ups than they are now. I know the starting eleven of many teams of the eighties because they were fixed and well known.
And yes, back then, we all said that it's good to have a fixed starting eleven, that don't change what is working etc, but football has different requirements now, IMHO!

[babu]

Yes ok.

So having a 'fixed squad' nowadays is no benefit at all?

Thats seems strange to me.

[neil]

The premier league is cr4p, full of teams like sheff utd watford fulham middlesbrough everton and bolton. Believe it or not our stock is measured in Champions league success and rightly so. The winners of our domestic league are the best cheaters and moaners who contest every single decision, surround and intimidate officials and basically kill the game. Long live Bayern v Barca or Liverpool v Real Madrid.

[112-1077774096]

The premier league is cr4p, full of teams like sheff utd watford fulham middlesbrough everton and bolton.

and we still cant win it so what does that say about us

[neil]

The premier league is cr4p, full of teams like sheff utd watford fulham middlesbrough everton and bolton.

and we still cant win it so what does that say about us

It was said in context, keep it in context please.

[112-1077774096]

ah yes our stock is measured in the champions league against the might of Elbasan, Ekranas, Linfield, Cork, Legia, Hearts, Rabotnicki, Levski etc etc etc.

but to say our league is cr4p when 3 of the four semifinalists come from out league really does your argument no favours mate

[neil]

its not an argument my friend, merely a statement of fact. Our reps in the CL are the same every season unlike say Spain(sabre?) The fact they are in the semii finals shows how good those particular teams fare in Europe rather than any reflection of Charlton capabilites.