Liverpool FC Forum

[Ciggy]

Yesterday another dire away from home performance again to many 1 pointers that feel like a loss.
Playing 5-4-1 against lower teams that defend for their lives who dont even try to win games.
The same at Villa that was worst the worst performance of the season.
Again failure to break down resolute defences with 10 men behind the ball.
Ok a draw is not a bad result against Arsenal, Yernited or Chelsea away from home.
But every time we play away from home against lower oppo I am not filled with confidence that we will win its always 50-50.

And most of the time its a draw, we dont impose ourselves on most teams.
And I feel Rafa worries to much about what they are going to do rather than play the same as we do at Anfield.

This season has been horrible TBH, our only hope of silverware is the CL and its a very tough task, and I feel some people are getting carried away and think we are already in the final.

Manu and Chelsea are still in the other cups and still batteling away for the prem, we seem to only be able to compete for one cup and not for everything that is on offer.

When was the last time Liverpool where being mentioned for a quadruple?
Surley the most decorated club in England should be aiming for this every season.

I feel Rafa has to take the shackles off away from home next season otherwise another season will pass by without us in for a shout in the prem.
There is also no one trying to get a dying minute winner, no one taking games by the scruff of the neck to win games away from home.

Gerrard used to but he doesnt seem interested anymore or maybe because we are not a one man team anymore as we have better players now.
But unfortunatly not good enough.

We fear no one in Europe and have it sussed out to a T.
If only we had the same commitment in the prem over 38 games we would have won number 19 by now.

And on this seasons performances away from home I am not holding my breath for number 19 coming home next season unless there is drastic improvements made over the summer and we get some real quality players in.

[Owzat]

I certainly agree we don't appear positive enough away from home some of the time, Man City haven't scored in the league at home since before CHRISTMAS ffs. Let's hope we don't have an end of season feel to the rest of our games in the Premiership, if people think there's nothing to play for then they're missing the opportunity to test ourselves for if this were a title challenge. Would title challengers meekly accept a draw at a mid-low table club like Man City? I will await with interest the result when the manc derby comes around

Man City 0-0 Liverpool

43% Possession 57%
1 shots on target 3
6 shots off target 8
4 corners 4
12 fouls 15

Most interestingly for me is the striker selection or non-selection policy stats :

Dirk Kuyt (started)

3 goals in 22 away games (0.137 goals/game)

Peter Crouch (sub)

11 goals in 41 away games (0.268 goals/game)

[/b]Robbie Fowler (not in squad, record since his return)[/b]

6 goals in 16 away games (0.375 goals/game)

The approach of playing Kuyt up front alone wasn't going to help, but only Fowler has a decent scoring record away from Anfield and he's not getting picked! If the players and management are in some kind of Champions League mindset that assumes were safely in the top four and that we're only interested in the semi and possibly final, then we could yet up third and maybe even fourth. I reckon the goners had a tougher game than we did, came away with a result having gone behind as well.

[112-1077774096]

541 cigs and that lies at rafas door, too defensive, too worried about losing rather than concentrating on winning, its as though rafa doesnt trust the players to do the job in the away games in the league, how can we roll over arsenal at anfield only to struggle against a poor city side.

we will never win the league with this defensive attitude, every game needs to be treated as a 'must win' game these days, too many times we have treated the games as a 'must not lose game'

[Rafa D]

A brutally honest assessment of how our season has gone there. The away performances is what has really let us down this year. Anfield is once again "Fortress Anfield" and its very rare for us to drop a point there. Thats the way is should be with Liverpool. Anfield should be a nightmare for the opposition to come and play, however we went through a patch that lasted around 10 years where teams like Ispwich, Barnsley, Sheff Utd and Coventry could all come and steal the points.

  Fair play to Rafa, he made this a priority when he first came here and our home form is up there with the best in the world. Until United recently beat us we were unbeaten there for practically over a year. Winning at home is vital, however winnning away is what makes you Champions. Just look at the table this weekend. We have lost 7 games away from home - you cant afford to lose that many if you want any chance of even challenging for the league. Coupled with the  4 draws away from home and thats a lot of missed points. We actually have only won 6 away so we've lost more than we have won on the road, thats not title winning form.

Now how do we explain it? The tactics, the formations, the personall employed, the managers reservations? You can point to a number of things and have a valid point and thats what I think it is, we've failed in games because of a mixture of a lot of things. The rotation at the start of the season was sometimes baffling for me, Gerrard left out of PSV away in the CL? Crouch dropped after scoring 2 goals the weekend before? The backline being changed on a weekly basis? Sometimes even I, the great defender of Rafa was left shaking my head in disbelief, our title challenged slipped away within 1 and 1/2 months of the new season and Rafa has to shoulder some of the blame for that. You also have to take into account a lot of our losses in the league away from home came within the first 2 months of the season. The fixture list wasn't kind to us, but when going to Goodison, the Reebok, Emirates, Old Trafford and Stamford Brigde - 0 points return is not good enough. I know there were probably the 5 hardest away days of the season and we were terribly unlucky to have them all bundled together like that but champions would work through it. To not even pick up a win and a couple of draws was pathetic, even the law of averages would assume us picking up something from the games. The dodgy decisions at the Reebok, the Drogba wonder goal, they did hurt us but we should have more about us then to lie down and take it like we did. The most disapointing match of the season for me was the United game at Old Trafford. The lads who has served us so well in the 2 previous finals, where they had played like wounded lions, let me miserably - Gerrard - no heart, Carra looked lost. I was really upset after that game.

Another possible reason for this poor showing at the start of the season is down to the players we had brought in. The revolving door was in full swing last summer with lots of new arrivals. Pennant, Gonzo, Aurelio, Bellamy and Kuyt were all brought into the squad to be first team players, bedding this many players all in at once was always going to be difficult even more so coupled with Rafa's rotation. Kuyt and Bellamy took a while to get used to our systems and the rotation, Pennant looked scared in his first game for us and Gonzo was never going to live up to the hype. Aurelio struggled as well and the decision to play him in a Merseyside derby when he was new to the Premiership and the country will go down as one of Rafa's weirdest decisions in his tenure as the boss of Liverpool. Considering the fact we probably have a core squad of first teamers of around 20 players, 5 of these were brand new to the club, thats around 25% of the squad was suddenly working under a different manager, different systems, different expectations, different fans etc. Bedding in of players is notoriously hard work and I think Rafa made a big boob in trying to intergrate them as early as he did. With hindsight, he should of kept Didi and gone with the tactics and players that finished the previous season so strongly. Fowler up front with Crouch, Gerrard on the right, Riise on the left and poss Warnock at Left back. They knew the roles and the systems and would of fared a lot better at the start of the season - but thats hindsight. What does stand us in good stead next year is hopefully there will not be the whole sale changes we seen last year, possibly 2 or 3 transfers so the core base of the squad will be confident and happy with the roles they have to perform in the team.

The formation I am not too concerned with. I am a big believer in the benefits that the 4 - 5 - 1 brings to the team.  It allows us to pack the midfield and gives the wingers license to roam down the wings - if done correctly. I don't feel its too negative - as Rafa has stated it can be seen as 4 - 3 - 3 and can easliy be changed to this if need be. The recent draws against Villa and yesterday against Man City would not be ideal results but I feel the players and Rafa to a certain extent are quite content in the 3rd spot and I would not expect to see them busting a gut or going that extra mile when the "big one" is right around the corner. It shouldn't be like this, I agree but with Chelsea in the semi's and a possible final appearance in Athens for our 6th European Cup why would they. Players dream of playing on the big stage and winnning things and the European Cup is the biggest of them all. How many players can look back at their career and say they played in a European Cup Final? not many. With a CL spot practically sewn up, players do not want to get injured or push themselves when the biggest game of their lives is round the corner. It shouldn'e be like this, and the players will deny it, but its certainly a major factor for me. I'd guarantee you now, if we were in Chelsea's position, 3 points behind the Mancs, then a very different Liverpool would of showed up yesterday.

All in all our away performances at the start of the season is the single major factor. Out of the 11 games we have dropped points in away from home ( 7 losses and 4 draws) 7 of these games were in a row at the start of the season. Out of our first 7 away games in the league - we won 0, drew 2 and lost 5 games. Thats were our title challenge was lost. We just have to make sure it doesn't happen again. And hopefully we won't.

[The Manhattan Project]

Teams we play away either kick us off the field and outmuscle us, or play the classic 10-0-0 formation.

[Ciggy]

Great post Rafa D,
Owzat Fowler was injured mate thats why he didnt travel with the squad.

[Lucky]

Teams we play away either kick us off the field and outmuscle us, or play the classic 10-0-0 formation.

The classic 10-0-0 formation! 
Can we just play 0-0-10 formation to break it? Too risky, perhaps

[Sabre]

Did we lose yesterday?

It seems we didn't win 4-1 against Arsenal (with a defensive 4-5-1), 0-3 against PSV (Defensive again), 1-0 against Reading and 1-0 again against PSV. A draw away after an european game and people saying Rafa is defensive and everything is wrong?

Call me of the happy clappy brigade,  but I don't see major troubles. Rafa HAS NOT enjoyed this season of the signing funds he'll have now, and we're asking him to compete against team that has enjoyed bigger sums.

Why we do this? BEcause we won a CL cup, a FA cup, and we inmediatly think that these things are easy. Back to the semifinals of the competition of the very best, we draw away, and the negative posts appear.

I know all this post appear because people want our team wins but, hey, we're not doing so badly.

[112-1077774096]

we're not doing so badly.

how points behind man utd are we? how many trophies are we in the running for this season?

i appreciate you may have become a liverpool supporter when we suddenly turned spanish, but those of us who are not bit part supporters know that this is not good enough.

did we lose yesterday? no

should we be beating teams like man city comfortably? yes we should


excuses about transfer funds dont hold any sway either unless you are suggesting we have transfer funds at home games but not at away games, its ot logical what you are saying.

the fact is the team selections and formations away from home, as well as the tactics have not been good enough and thats is the decision of rafa.

I have said this since the first game of the season that rafa has learnt nothing from the previous two seasons, we have all heard the argument "well it works in spain", but so does the spanish language and bull fighting, but it isnt going to work in the premier league and if rafa cant see that after nearly 3 years in charge then i am worried.

ok give him 40 million to spend in the summer, but if he persists with negative tactics away from home next season it doenst really matter if he has 100 million to spend, you dont buy a ferarri to tow a caravan.

the simple fact is that our away form this season has been a major let down, is it the players fault? no it isnt as they show they can do the job with the right tactics, is it tha managers fault? damn right it is

[66-1120597113]

I think a lot of it is down to lack of respect for 'lower' teams.Also a distinct lack of motivation.
Its almost as if without the Anfield crowd behind them the players seem to feel'its OK we are LFC we can just do our thing and we'll win it over 90 minutes'!

It has to be said that the effort that our players put in away from home is nowhere near enough when it appears there is not a lot to loose!
Regardless of it being a European match how can we justify a fantastic result in Eindhoven with basically the same team compared to the recent performances against Villa and Man City?

I think the manager has to take some blame of course but he can only lead the team to the white line after that its their effort and work that changes a 0-0 draw into a win.
I blame the players more than Raffa tbh.He looked as frustrated as any fan yesterday!They need to remember that when we go to a team like Man City they are gonna be delighted with a point and a lot of the time will play for a draw.Most teams that come to Anfield are resigned to a defeat if they were honest and would consider a draw a great days work.

More effort needs to be put in away from home next season..until we learn to grind out tough 1nil wins on the road we can forget about winning the league!

[Rafa D]

the simple fact is that our away form this season has been a major let down, is it the players fault? no it isnt as they show they can do the job with the right tactics, is it tha managers fault? damn right it is

If you see my post about Peewee I don't think we can just shoulder all the blame on the manager. The players at the start of the season did not perform. Carra, Gerrard and Hyypia are all quality players and even these players who you would consider Liverpool through and through were guilty of mistakes that cost us matches.

The start of our season let us down badly. Thats it. We have to start a lot better away from home next year. There were factors that contributed to the losses but the blame cannot just lie at Rafa's feet.

We are a team. We win as a team and lose as a team.

Next year is important for all involved.

[112-1077774096]

but barry, rafa doesnt have to look as frustrated ast the supporters, he can do something about.

even stevie wonder could see after 5 minutes yesterday that he got his formation wrong, he changed that formation after 75 minutes. he cant really sit there then and say that he is frustrated and dissapointed when that formation and tactic has failed more than its suceeded away from home this season, its his choice, its his mistake

[112-1077774096]

i do get your point rafa, some players have under performed at various times this season, but thats not assisted in my opinion by a defensive formation.

ok we have the second best defence in the league but we are still light years behind the leaders, that should tell you something, it tells me that are defensive.

in fact we are cheeky when we criticise teams for playing defensive against us when we are doing the same and spoiling the game

[66-1120597113]

but barry, rafa doesnt have to look as frustrated ast the supporters, he can do something about.

even stevie wonder could see after 5 minutes yesterday that he got his formation wrong, he changed that formation after 75 minutes. he cant really sit there then and say that he is frustrated and dissapointed when that formation and tactic has failed more than its suceeded away from home this season, its his choice, its his mistake

I never got to see the whole game mate!I guess your right he needs to be a bit more ruthless with changing formation and subs...true!

Still though Peewee the players selected to play on the day have the ability to beat the likes of Man City and Villa etc.

They need to but a lot more effort in away from home than at Anfield...all teams do on the road!At the minute they just are'nt giving enough..each man needs to be giving 100% and that aint happening!


BTW are you back for good or just visiting?

[112-1077774096]

yes mate, the players selected have the ability to beat city, but sadly the players selected are restricted by formation and tactics, 442 yesterday with two forwards would have seen city off, are we that worried by cities midfield that we need to cram the midfield with 5 players.

anyway one bright point is that rafa may have finally realised the sissoko is a donkey.


oh and i am visiting