This keeps running through my mind...

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Ciggy » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:49 am

The_Rock wrote:Well guess more & more think that gerrard will leave.


http://sport.scotsman.com/football.cfm?id=1339382004


Quality of Mersey strained as Benitez and Gerrard weigh options

JON HOTTEN


DAVID Beckham might have drawn many hundreds of lovesick Japanese girls to an airport for just a glimpse of his gorgeousness, but Steven Gerrard offered a different measure of football stardom last Monday. His return from injury to Liverpool’s reserve XI at Telford’s Bucks Head ground brought 6,280 people out on a late autumn night.

The crowd was a stadium record, and if the young men of Wolves’ second team were in any doubt that the evening was a little out of the ordinary, Gerrard’s performance, when he took the field at half time, quickly dispelled them. Short of breath he may have been, short of class he was not. From his prescribed role just in front of the back four, some destructive passes and one graceful goalward surge essayed forth, and when he was substituted with a minute still to play, not many in the crowd or on the pitch felt short-changed.

Gerrard offered the expected platitudes to the press afterwards - Beckham beats him on sound bites as well as looks - but then he would not choose to expand on the complexity of his situation even if he were capable. It’s a signal of the accelerated speed at which the Premiership moves that both Gerrard and his manager Raphael Benitez might now be ambivalent about his future. A few brief weeks ago Liverpool without Gerrard was as unthinkable as an issue of Heat magazine without Beckham in it. He was a man hauling around his winded team like a spare tyre.

An emotional, gut decision had played its part in keeping him at Liverpool, yet there have been subtle shifts at Anfield since the summer. Gerrard has told the ubiquitous ‘pals’ that he is unsure if Benitez sees him as the team’s fulcrum. Equally ubiquitous ‘insiders’ have it that Benitez wants to buy two, perhaps three players, and the fee that Gerrard would command is the fastest way to realise that ambition.

These kind of rumours surround every big player of course, but the smoke signals often fuel some fire. A move would require both Gerrard and Benitez to position themselves with some subtlety within the media. These could be early skirmishes.

What is beyond doubt is that Benitez has bought Xabi Alonso as the motor of his midfield, and in the few games that they have played together, it has been Gerrard who has accommodated the Spaniard by moderating his game. Alonso was acquired when Gerrard appeared almost certain to be joining Chelsea; it is the England man’s u-turn that has caused the problem.

Between them, and in Gerrard’s absence, Benitez and Alonso have got Liverpool playing. Whilst no-one is under any illusion of a title thrust, they have been effective in the Champions League.

Suddenly the form of Real Madrid impacts upon Anfield. That Real covet Gerrard is no secret. Not even Abramovich is as greedy for players as Perez and Madrid; and their need for an aggressive midfielder is very real. That Michael Owen spoke publicly of a Gerrard phone call to him after he’d broken his Bernabeu duck, allied to the fact that Gerrard’s agents, SFX, helped to take Owen, Beckham and Woodgate to Spain, might be more significant.

It’s all smoke and mirrors, but Real have rarely needed more encouragement, and Patrick Vieira is now off their agenda.

Gerrard finds himself in much the same position as Owen.

Unlike Beckham, their talent has not yet been translated into major honours, and it is less likely to be at Liverpool than at England’s big three, or at Real. All of those four clubs would have Gerrard if they could, and the player would not be human if he had not dreamt, however idly, of how it might feel to partner Lampard or Vieira, or Zidane every week.

His heart lies on Merseyside though, no-one doubts that. Having exited a moribund side when he broke his metatarsal (a rare concession to fashion), Gerrard can return to one in which Milan Baros is scoring goals, Alonso and Luis Garcia occasionally touch the sublime and tough guys like John Arne Riise and Jamie Carragher are working genuinely hard. If Benitez could unscramble Harry Kewell’s circuits as capably as he has the mercurial Baros, Gerrard might relish his comeback even more. As it is, he must feel a little like a man returning to the office after six weeks off. The surroundings are utterly familiar, the dynamics almost imperceptibly altered.

In Benitez’s mind might be a need to free himself from a history that Houllier often felt was pulling him down. There is no shortage of ex-Liverpool men in the media letting everyone know exactly what is wrong with the club. Losing Owen and Gerrard, two totemic figures on Merseyside, might seem careless but it would allow the Rafa-lution to begin for real. It’s an exit strategy that could suit Gerrard too, clearing his conscience and allowing his glorious talent free reign, unencumbered by the expectations of a home where six thousand turn up for a reserve game.

:( That sort of brings it in perspective  :(
40 mill would be great for us for new players but I love him and wouldnt want him to go. Look at the damage since Owen has gone, we really miss his goals and any one who says otherwise is thick.
So if Gerrard went we would miss the powerful driving force in our team, to a team like we seen yesterday no pride in the shirt, just picking up a dirty fat pay cheque every month :(
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Postby mynameisred » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:54 am

cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:I love him and wouldnt want him to go. Look at the damage since Owen has gone, we really miss his goals and any one who says otherwise is thick.

CGGY that was beautiful,moving and funny all in one. :)
The man who came to merseyside from Newcastle, the man who says he's part of Liverpool as much as the Liver building. When he was needed Alan Kennedy was there. And with now just 8 minutes to go it could be that Alan Kennedy has made a little history.
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:57 am

mynameisred wrote:
cisses_gona_get_ya wrote:I love him and wouldnt want him to go. Look at the damage since Owen has gone, we really miss his goals and any one who says otherwise is thick.

CGGY that was beautiful,moving and funny all in one. :)

:D I feel like cryin mate to be honest I love my team so much and just want them to do well like the rest of us, and when you think we are making a step forward all of a sudden its 2 steps back. :(
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Postby mynameisred » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:08 am

I know its hard Ive been laying off the posting lately as I think it s beggining to affect my perception of our current posistion. I really think we need to be patient with the club at the moment. The change at the top and its subsequent filtering down has been more deep and thorough than anyone imagined it would be and who would have thought we would see the turnover of players that we have.Rafa would prob got rid of more but he has to his hands tied with the transfer restrictions. Keep the Faith I know thats so cliche but thats all we got at the moment but at the end of the day at least we are not Manc fans. It must be terrible going through what they are at the mo and to make it worse for them its only us that really know what they are going through. Their cycle is over it lasted half the time of ours and still have half the euro champs cups that we do. Football can be a tough emotional ride but focus on your love, the team needs it.
The man who came to merseyside from Newcastle, the man who says he's part of Liverpool as much as the Liver building. When he was needed Alan Kennedy was there. And with now just 8 minutes to go it could be that Alan Kennedy has made a little history.
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Postby ShaneK » Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:51 pm

im still split on selling stevie G, sell him for bug bucks and we get our selfs a few good players, keep him and have a world class player, not sure which to choose, wonder which one will be better for out future. ???
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Postby spud » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:38 pm

Stevie is world class and belongs on a world class stage, i.e., playing in front of 98,000 at the Nou Camp last night.  He knows this.

I think he is hungry and ambitious and doesn't want to be a (dare I say Scholes or Giggs) who just played domestically in England (whilst collecting a load of silverware).

I imagine that he'll go.  I will be personally gutted.  We need to gather some momentum and stay in the CL for him to be less vulnerable.

RB needs time and a few more players plus we need to change the structure at the top.
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Postby 115-1073096938 » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:42 pm

Personally i'd keep him.

Baros would have been a good sale after the Euro's for about £10m but he's showing signs of improvement and is our only striker with an ounce of experience and in all honesty any quality.

I think money may have to come from the sales of Dudek, Traore and maybe even Hamann or Biscan but how much we'll get is debatable, maybe £6m for those three if we're lucky.

Obviously theres Diouf, Diao, Vignal and Cheyrou.

We need to get money from somewhere but hopefully it won't be selling our best player.

Personally, the signings i'd be looking at are Fowler, Angel and a quality centre half although who that is i don't know.

I think Robbie would come cheap and he'd get the goals. Angel would offer goals and something different aswell. We need someone like Jermaine Pennant who can beat a man and whip in a good cross aswell.
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Postby Pig Catcher » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:51 pm

stu_the_red wrote:and a quality centre half although who that is i don't know.

Joseph Yobo - I have always been impressed with him since the 2004 world cup. Has shown that he can hack it in the Premiership and always does a great job on Henry, is really quick and strong, though not much ball ability. I think we could unsettle him and get him for about 7.5 MIL.

Ledley King - Probarly an unrealistic target but he is quick, strong, has ball playing ability and is English. But he is unlikely to leave, and a bid in excess of 15MIL would be required.

Boumsong - Though he rejected us before, that was due to a clash with Houllier, he stated that clearly and called Liverpool a great club. He is quick and strong, he is extremely competent and destined to be a regular for France. Rangers are in finacial disaray and I'm sure if we put a big enough bid in they couldn't refuse.

Tomas Ujfalusi of Hamburger SV - Was very impressed with him in Euro2004, he is strong and quick, he would be a more risky signing as he is untested in the Premiership, not sure about the fee.

Samuel Kuffour: His contract is up at the end of the season and he has stated he wants to leave, proven calibare in the Champions League. The guy is good in the air, very quick. Barca and Real Madrid were both interested in him 2 or 3 seasons ago and he would have no problems adjusting to the Prem's phyical nature. Arsenal are rumoured to be interested in case Sol Campbell doesn't sign a new deal,which says it all about his ability,it might be hard to get him though. We were linked with him before the deadline, I hope we can sort something out for when his contact runs out.
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Postby Redrider » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:04 pm

4th place is absolutely essential from a Financial point of view.
If the Board have any sense, they will forget about a new stadium until we have a team. All avilable funds should be channelled towards the purchase of essential players.
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Postby andy_g » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:46 pm

i think the bottom line this season is...

4th or above = champions league = gerrard stays
5th or below = no champions league = gerrard goes
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Postby The_Rock » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:56 pm

mynameisred wrote:Keep the Faith I know thats so cliche but thats all we got at the moment but at the end of the day at least we are not Manc fans. It must be terrible going through what they are at the mo and to make it worse for them its only us that really know what they are going through. Their cycle is over it lasted half the time of ours and still have half the euro champs cups that we do. Football can be a tough emotional ride but focus on your love, the team needs it.

:D

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Postby adayinthelife » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:46 am

stu_the_red wrote:Personally i'd keep him.

Baros would have been a good sale after the Euro's for about £10m but he's showing signs of improvement and is our only striker with an ounce of experience and in all honesty any quality.

I think money may have to come from the sales of Dudek, Traore and maybe even Hamann or Biscan but how much we'll get is debatable, maybe £6m for those three if we're lucky.

Obviously theres Diouf, Diao, Vignal and Cheyrou.

We need to get money from somewhere but hopefully it won't be selling our best player.

Personally, the signings i'd be looking at are Fowler, Angel and a quality centre half although who that is i don't know.

I think Robbie would come cheap and he'd get the goals. Angel would offer goals and something different aswell. We need someone like Jermaine Pennant who can beat a man and whip in a good cross aswell.

You forgot Henchoz who barring injuries is a certainty to go.

It is not going to be easy for Benitez with the lack of cash so I am expecting 2 or 3 more spaniards to arrive with Morientes the player I really want us to sign.

There must be alot of decent players out there whose contract is up in the summer that we can pick up cheap in january.
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Smith to Fagan:Tell him to sod off.It is not his leg,it's mine.
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Postby SouthernScouser » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:11 am

I think the issue of Gerrard leaving is inevitable.  At the end of the day - we can all see a tiny tiny light at the end of a long dark tunnel.  Rafa needs time & money in order to achieve his dream team.  Obviously any dream team would want Gerrard in it.  But the lad is craving honours & his football deserves to be played on the best stage - so I think he will definitely go at the end of the season - probably to Spain.
I think it would be too painful for him to stay in the Premiership & have to play against us at least twice - possibly more a season.
If his final gift to us is to supply 30 - 40 million for the good of the team and in a few years he can see we are back where we belong - he will be a happy man & Liverpool like on so many occasions - would be forever in his debt.
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Postby andy_g » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:18 am

the thing that makes me wonder though is how much would it mean for a player to win the CL with, say, real madrid compared to how much it would mean with youor own team from your own town.

i think that in 2 or 3 seasons we will be genuine contenders for winning it and i am convinced that gerrard would get such a better feeling winning with liverpool than anyone else. but footballers these days seem so short sighted and want immediate glory and prizes where ever.

so, yeah, i see him going - but at the end of this season. and it will just prove to me again that there is no pride or loyalty left in football.
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Postby SouthernScouser » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:38 am

Andy
Can definitely see what your sayin
But Gerrard has been more loyal than most
The only other thing I would say in his defence is - football careers seem to be getting shorter now - there also seems to be different injuries in the game - that weren't happening years ago - I truly believe it's partly the pace of the Premier League
So how long does he (from his own point of view) remain with the team he loves - in a huge period of transition - and desperate for money - which is going to stutter for yet another season (probably)
Totally agree about the difference with winning the champions league or championship with his boyhood heroes - or winning stuff with the galatica
Just wouldn't come close
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