Liverpool FC Forum

[Ade]

It's about personal preference Ade. You can't take away a person's right to distance themselves from the sh*tholes who bang their f*cking drums and blow their f*cking horns at every God-forsaken England international.

Personally, I f*cking hate the England set-up, and almost every c*nt who features in the squad. I'd happily p*ss all over 90% of the retards.

So I can understand why Scousers want to be known as just that.

I agree with most of that Lando. I'm English, but the whole set-up is depressing as hell - the management, the FA, the money-grabbing players, the Rios and JTs and David feckin Beckham make me sick. I haven't really cared about England since Euro 96 and I'd love to have seen Gerrard withdraw from this squad.

But I don't think this is about identifying with your club over the national side. it's sentimental separatist bolox.

[Ade]

the simple thing is everyone stereotypes liverpool, saying that we all rob our grandmothers and all this . The biggest example is the Sun's scandalous stories about the Hillsbrough disaster. It is pretty tiring and annoying and at times its as though we are a separate nation to england because it feels that they don't want "our kind" around here. The press are to blame as well. We seem to be highlighted as one of the worst involving crime etc. even though it is worse in Manchester and even other places. I for one am sick and tired (i no not all people of england are like this) of all this harsh treatment, just because we have a different accent, we have different clothing sense or we don't live in a perfect world but its like that anywhere else, but we seem to be the ones being blamed for it and get skitted for it.

If you lived in this city you would understand. You don't, so don't comment on it thank you

I see your point. But for all the negatives in the news, there's a lot of sympathy and respect for the club and the fans among a lot of sports writers in the press - and the BBC too. We as a club probably get an easier ride from the media than most of the big teams, and other fans like us too. Listen to 606 after the final in Istanbul and hear how made up for us loads of neutrals were.

[Ade]

Sabre will like this 





We are not english, we are scouse.

Do you know why?

because we are not like those cockneys with all this 'england till i die' rubbish. We are different.

It's only scousers who would put club before country, instead of the other shite like "I'd do anything to play for my country."

We're Not English, We Are Scouse
Daniel Nicolson

Every other summer a strange phenomenon grips the nation. Fully grown men don face paint and wear bowler hats promoting down market tabloids. Women of all ages get overly excited and emotive about something that the vast majority of them detest and avoid at all other times. Young children beg their parents to decorate the house and car in an assortment of differently sized flags, patriotically proclaiming their new found, apparent, interest in all things national.

Despite what the media may peddle there isn't quite a blanket cover of nationwide partisanship. For in the city of Liverpool there is a resistance. Now whilst it would be way off the mark to argue that the whole city combats the urge to succumb to traipsing around pubs, City Centres and supermarkets draped in a St Georges cross - a significant amount of us do. And a great amount of these Scouse insurgents are Liverpool fans.

It must seem bizarre to an outsider. A little strange why people bearing the passport of a country, and officially the queens subjects feel so unpatriotic. There's a multitude of reasons why. None of which perhaps single handily advocates such an open display of apathy but collectively they act as a massive deterrent to support the football team representing England.

As custodians of the country's most successful team ever you may ask why would we ever harbour any desire to get behind another team? As Liverpudlians we've seen it all. Literally. Year on year our football urges are more than satisfied by our seasonal exploits. Recent runs that have culminated in the most dramatic matches ever; the Michael Owen and West Ham FA Cup finals, the UEFA Cup and of course the unforgettable evening in Istanbul. Our own on the pitch efforts have more than eclipsed anything the national team has achieved for generations.

The English team has more traditionally been the stronghold of fans representing lower division teams. Teams in a less fortunate position than us. An excuse for fans who rarely get to experience the joy of an extended run in knockout competitions, or indeed get the chance to witness their team play in another country. Having been almost permanent residents in European competitions for the past 40 years a viable reason for jaunt to the continent is never far away. Just one of the reasons why Liverpool have never really had an active following within the England ranks. Touts and grafters aside of course!

For most of us the urge for a dose of summer football is still there. However many people must look on in disgust at the suggestion that someone can enjoy a football tournament without actively seeking a team to win. And of course the natural draw for the majority of the public here and abroad is to the national team of their country. Some people like to take a closer look at the make up of a team; the players apparently representing the fans. At best we're lucky to have three or four Liverpool players vying for a place in the national squad in the months building up to the start of an international tournament. And I doubt anyone would like to deny any of our players any glory in their career. After all they're only doing their jobs. But think of their new team mates. The Rio Ferdinand's, John Terry's and Frank Lampard's of the world. The type of players that we loathe. Should we cheer them on? Should we sing their names? I'm going to spare mentioning self professed Scouse hater Gary Neville. But how any Kopite can get behind the first three players alone is beyond me. And I most definitely don't want them representing me.

Now how about the city of Liverpool. The city has always been different to the rest of the country. Unique. It's enviable geographical position ensured this. As gateway to Ireland and the Americas Liverpool gained status as the British Empire's top port. With it's back firmly turned on England, Liverpool is often interpreted as a insular enclave. And to a certain extent with regards to the rest of the nation that is true. But not to the world. The city opened it's arms to the globe. It didn't need the assistance of the rest of the country to develop into a jewel in the crown of the British Empire. The result? A cosmopolitan melting pot of people and cultures was established and blossomed over hundreds of years - still growing to this day. A city significantly different to any other urban centre in this land. A city to be proud of.

Perhaps it's jealously, or maybe the result of a lifetimes plethora of misinformation, but our city still endures unfair and outdated stereotypes perpetrated and prolonged by a small minority of the media and public. This is evident in football grounds up and down the country on a weekly basis. Whether it's a few hundred Portsmouth fans visiting Anfield for a winter mid-week match or (as it seems) each match at Old Trafford it seems that much of the nation takes great pride in ridiculing Scousers. Given this why should we join them hand in hand getting behind the national team? We maybe known as a city of wit but why should our humour extend to laughing at ourselves?

The tiresome, tedious jibes about stealing and unemployment that terrace crowds rejoice in when playing Liverpool are not forgotten by many a Scouser when we're expected to join sides with the undertakers of such drivel. Of course the ironic justice to it all is that many of these fans singing what they see as oh so witty chants come from places with far worse problems than Liverpool. Brummies chanting about unemployment when their own city is in state of economic and industrial decline. Mancunians rejoicing in nursery-rhyme-like chants about criminality when their city boasts the rather questionable tag of "UK Capital of Crime".

Of course this is going slightly off the topic, but I'm just reiterating the point that for many Scousers the disdain shown by much of the country throughout the year is not forgotten when the general public expects us to join their bi-annual show of strength. An ill-feeling also still exists to this day regarding the treatment the city suffered under the Thatcher government. I'll leave an in depth explanation to someone more qualified to speak on the subject but animosity and resentment still exists in a lot of Scouse quarters as a result of the the Tory regime that brought hardship to 1980's Merseyside.

For many the circus that associates itself with the national team is more than enough to undertake a self-imposed press ban. Each time an international tournament comes around a laughable hysteria is created and the gullible general public fall for it. Perhaps for a few Liverpool fans, always considered that little bit more knowledgeable than the rest, see themselves as above the media's 'build them up to knock 'em down' tactics.

I'm not going to pretend that collectively us LFC fans are angels. We're not. Far from it. However the behaviour that followers of England often demonstrate both home and abroad is quite frankly nothing short of embarrassing. The racism, bullying and general small time attitude seen over the years, and as recently as the last World Cup would not be tolerated at Liverpool Football Club - and the thought of being associated with this attitude both at home and by our compatriots on the continent is repulsive to lot of us.

So there you go. That wasn't a lecture. Nor was it a set of rules. It was simply a little insight that will hopefully give a few people some understanding of why some Liverpool fans find it difficult to get behind the national team. Remember, for many people like me it's not that we want England to get beat. We just don't want them to win!


Daniel Nicolson

question answered?

Another thing.....

Gotta say, as an OOT, but an OOT since the mid-Seventies, this 'We're not English, we're Scouse' thing is obviously something I can't understand - I'm not a scouser, how could I?

exactly. You are an OOT so you wouldn't understand. But try understanding it instead of telling us it's wrong.

that bit about 'only scousers would put club before country'

The bit about 'only scousers would put their club before their country'.

utter bolox

[Sabre]

Hehe adam, I was shocked and laughing the first time I saw that.

In this matter, as an external viewer, I'll say this. For that matter, I agree Lando when he says nobody can force you to be proud of what you aren't or you don't want to be. I also see eye to eye Ace with his ironic view of the matter.

Just like in my country, I don't care the friends that are very nationalists, it's their right. But I don't like it when it starts to divide people that have been together for a long time. I don't like neither when I see more basque flags in the stands than club flags.

My point is that as long the "we're not scouse" thing doesn't divide the Anfield crowd, then it's ok. Everybody must be what they want  to be.

But I wouldn't like a mini civil-war between reds around this issue and see them discussing among themselves instead of forgetting who are the real enemies -- Everton, Manchester United, Chelsea.

Liverpool F.C. is what is important.

[adamnbarrett]

possibly but I see you didn't have anything to say about the rest.

Point made?

We are not english, we are scouse.

If you don't want to be part of that then fine, but don't tell us what we're doing is wrong when you couldn't possibly understand.

[Lando_Griffin]

What I don't understand, is this:

How anyone can abuse the heck out of opposition players in the league, then cheer them on when they pull on an England top.

It's hypocritical, it's pathetic, and it's down right f*cking wrong.

No way on God's earth could I cheer Neville, Fat c*nting Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves, "JT", Hair-lip Steve (Ferdinand, the coke-snorting b*stard), Fat f*cking Frank, and any other Manc/Sh*tski/Bitter c*nt, even if the feckers had just won the World cup single-handed.

No thankyou. Not f*cking likely.

[Ade]

possibly but I see you didn't have anything to say about the rest.

Point made?

We are not english, we are scouse.

If you don't want to be part of that then fine, but don't tell us what we're doing is wrong when you couldn't possibly understand.

Just read the rest. Point made? No, most of it is of the 'we're a unique city and unique people' variety. Tell me a city and a people who aren't unique. Most of that identity stuff is interchangeable - try telling a Geordie, a Manc, a Londoner their cities and identities aren't cultural melting pots with unique characteristics.

The stuff about the press coverage of Liverpool is fairer, though like i posted earlier, there's also a lot of support for the club and the fans from neutrals. My point is not about why reds won't cheer on England – i wouldn't watch them in my back garden. The point i'm making is the separatist identity stuff - it's divisive and self-important.

I hate any kind of separatism, it only ever gets uglier in the long-term.

Also Adam, you say, 'if you don't wanna be part of it, fine'.
How can i be part of it when i'm not scouse? It's not a choice, it's a birthright. Which is part of my point - it's a division among the fans.

[maypaxvobiscum]

but are we all not liverpool fans? how about instead of ''we are scouse not english'', change it to ''we are liverpool, not c*nts''

[Ade]

but are we all not liverpool fans? how about instead of ''we are scouse not english'', change it to ''we are liverpool, not c*nts''

got a certain ring to it

[woof woof !]

What I don't understand, is this:

How anyone can abuse the heck out of opposition players in the league, then cheer them on when they pull on an England top.

It's hypocritical, it's pathetic, and it's down right f*cking wrong.

No way on God's earth could I cheer Neville, Fat c*nting Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves, "JT", Hair-lip Steve (Ferdinand, the coke-snorting b*stard), Fat f*cking Frank, and any other Manc/Sh*tski/Bitter c*nt, even if the feckers had just won the World cup single-handed.

No thankyou. Not f*cking likely.

Until Liverpool becomes a republic you're country (England) is represented in international football by a team that (unfortunately for you) is not comprised of 11 scousers, but come to think of it neither is the club we follow.

If the "we're scouse not english"  attitude was expanded to a larger stage are we to assume that if England was under attack scousers would not support our armed forces because 99.9% of them weren't scouse ? (like LFC)

This siege mentality adopted by many so called scousers is juvenile and embarrassing and not that far away from the fanatics who declared that they would put their religion before country and were then immediately castigated by many of the "scousers" who inhabit this forum.

Our club captain, more scouse in his fractured toe than half the t'ossers in here doesn't have a problem playing for and supporting England , vent your spleen on the rest of the team if you like but at least have the sense to support one of yer own.

Finally

We are not English we're scouse. If you don't want to be part of that then fine, but don't tell us what we're doing is wrong when you couldn't possibly understand.

Adamnbarret, you're sixteen years old , hardly the time for you to be telling anybody what it means to be scouse.

[Lee2k6]

What I don't understand, is this:

How anyone can abuse the heck out of opposition players in the league, then cheer them on when they pull on an England top.

It's hypocritical, it's pathetic, and it's down right f*cking wrong.

No way on God's earth could I cheer Neville, Fat c*nting Rooney, Carrick, Hargreaves, "JT", Hair-lip Steve (Ferdinand, the coke-snorting b*stard), Fat f*cking Frank, and any other Manc/Sh*tski/Bitter c*nt, even if the feckers had just won the World cup single-handed.

No thankyou. Not f*cking likely.

couldn't agree more

thats always the point i always make.

how can anybody support a team made up mostly of people they despise every other day of the week with the likes of that cu.nt neville. 

i like the whole scouse not english thing myself, any chance to distance myself and my club from that ginger manc t.it an his fu cked up team.   

[The Ace1983]

I'm not scouse, but I am a Liverpool fan. I was born in England, but I consider myself British, not English. As for the football team (England) I do support them, but if I had to choose between the Liver Bird and the Lions, i'd choose Liverpool every time. Why? Because, quite simply, Liverpool just mean more to me. They play more often, their better than England, my father supports them (and England, but Liverpool more), the history is better, the fans are smarter, there are no mixed loyalties, Liverpool doesn't disrupt the Internationals with pointless friendlies... the list goes on.

I can't comment on why Scousers are, or are not, anti-England. It's not my place and I wouldn't speak for someone else unless they asked me to. But don't think this is just scousers.

The other big problem at the moment is Steve McClaren (worst manager ever). He should never have been appointed, he's a failure and a joke and he takes hairstyle advice from Sven (anyone else noticed that little island of hair on his forehead shrinking). We aren't going to qualify anyway. I wish we would, but with him, i don't think we stand a chance. And even if we do, his lack of ideas and stupidity will just be an embaressment. Both he, and the amateurish (and proud of it) FA need the boot. If their was some decent leadership and a man at the helm who actually knows something about football, i'd get behind them.

[Igor Zidane]

I'm not scouse 'i'm from wavertree , CAPITOL of South Liverpool . VIVA LA REVOLUTION.

[Red Red Tom]

It's about personal preference Ade. You can't take away a person's right to distance themselves from the sh*tholes who bang their f*cking drums and blow their f*cking horns at every God-forsaken England international.

Personally, I f*cking hate the England set-up, and almost every c*nt who features in the squad. I'd happily p*ss all over 90% of the retards.

So I can understand why Scousers want to be known as just that.

I'm not from Liverpool originally, but I live here now; and what Lando has said is so true it should be made into law instantly.  Outside Liverpool around the country; it's people are mocked "aw goin up to skaase land mate?  betta wotchit."  The 'national' press fawn over Manchester United and some cockney shitbags like Spurs ahead of Liverpool.  When United lead the league on goal difference, it gets reported as such, when it's liverpool they are "joint top".

I wasn't born in Liverpool, but I CAN understand the mentality.  I'd far rather be scouse than anything else.  The city has produced so much that has made the rest of England bitter and twisted.  Probably the two most significant things are the beatles and LFC - The biggest band ever, and the most sucessful team in the national sport's history.  Jealousy, and eventually hatred are aimed at the city of Liverpool by bitter people who mock the local pride scousers feel.

To all scousers:  You should be proud.  You have a fantastic city that deals with a lot of and sterotyping from outside the region, yet you are still some of the most welcoming genuine people in the country.  I wish I was one of you.

Maybe I'll make a banner that says:  "I'd rather be an adopted scouser than English".

[Kharhaz]

Its not just scousers who hate the England set, many fans of other clubs around the country agree also, the only fans you see at england matches are fans from lower league clubs, how often do you see england fans in the stand with STOKE CITY FOREVER ! or GILLINGHAM RULE ! Just look at how often Man Utd players suddenly withdraw from the england squad through injury but suddenly get fit for there next premiership game. Im not scouse but id rather none of our key players played internationals (not just english players).