Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

Well I certainly like Barry and agree he's a good player (he did of course surprise many when he played for England) but he strikes me that these days he sees himself more as a midfielder. He did though start off as a left back so no doubt he could play there, my only reservation would be about his pace. Perhaps he's quicker than he looks but I've always had him down as being not that much of an athlete.


The other two options for left sided midfield players in the Premiership would be Bentley and ashley Young I would have thought. Perhaps we could go for a full on raid at Villa, as I do really like Ashley Young and think he edges out Bentley by a smidge.

[66-1112520797]

As for the "link up" with Torres, don't make me laugh. Thats what happens when you put class players together. Gerrard's bouncing of Torres because he's they only other real world class player we've got. Its not due to Gerrard being an attacking genius, thats something he'll never be and its deluded to think that he will.

Thats exactly my point. Gerrard isnt no Pablo Aimar, but you've just acknowledged he is world class and when he is linking up with an other world class player to such devastating effect, it doesnt really matter if hes tailor made for that role. Because its still very affective. 

Also it allows us to play two holding midfielders, one who is a monster in the role, and another on his day (when ever that maybe) is a classmaster in the art of dictating and passing the game through.

The spine of that formation is formidable, its the wider areas we need to look at, for me Arbeloa does push on enough for a fullback and I think he is a good defender too. LB I'm not so sure of.

[Fo Dne]

Heres what I found without really looking...

Gerrard tackles...

Don't tell me he's an attacking midfielder and not a ball winner.

Look at the tackle on Rooney. The pace he came into the picture and won the ball was frightening, on the last one the slow mo doesn't do him any favours either.

Tackling Ronaldo no problem

And again...

Class!

[66-1112520797]

Stu what do you reckon on Benitez ?

and rotation ?

[Fo Dne]

Stu what do you reckon on Benitez ?

and rotation ?

and even more .

Benitez tacitcally is immense. Tactical genius alone though will never win you the premier league. You need to sometimes let some players off the leash and let them "play with their heart" in the league or teams will turn you over. Also his signings have been a complete sham since day one. He's not signed enough quality what so ever, much like Houllier, infact, even less than Houllier which is worrying.

He over rotates badly aswell and picks the wrong games. Rotation is a must in todays game, its too fast and too hard to not rotate, but he rotates for the sake of it and he drops players in form, which is a joke. He also said earlier in the season that Torres was dropped against Birmingham because he wouldn't have had the space to play in, I felt like smacking him when he said that.

Torres can do everything that Crouch does to a better standard and a hole lot more, end of. It winds me up no end.

Also, Skrtyl and Babel are and a waste of £17,500,000.

[bigmick]

I think the point with Gerrard is that he's that good that he can do everything, it's just a question where he is most effective. I know I go mad sometimes when he takes all the corners. It's not that he takes a bad corner because he doesn't, but he just happens to be fecking pretty good in the air as well and could like Ronaldo score plenty of headers if he was in there. He's by an absolute distance the best right back at the club, and one of the best right midfielders in the League never mind at the club. He's probably better at playing centre forward than Crouch, and would certainly be better than either Kuyt or Voronin if he played there. Allied to that of course he is very effective playing the hole behind torres, and is a World class central midfielder.

No question he could play as a box to box all action central midfielder, kind of like Roy Keane in his younger days, Paul Ince at his peak or a Gazza. He'd no doubt be their equal and their better in many cases, but I can't help thinking that while we have foreign managers it'll never ever happen, simply because they don't play with that type of player on the continent. You either are a defensive or an attacking midfielder in the modern game, whether that's because the players to play box to box aren't there or it's just a fashion I don't know but that's the way it is. It's definately an impossibility anyhow with Rafa whichever way you look at it, the last time Gerrard played box to box was in the derby and he got taken off for playing with his "heart not his head". Maybe if Martin O Neil or somebody similar were manager they might ask Gerrard to play that way but I can't see it under a foreign coach.

[Owzat]

Doesn't matter what the formation or tactics, if some of the players aren't good enough and those that are don't perform or are outplayed by their opponents, then you won't win.

Under Rafa we lose 1 in 3 away games, now we don't play 1 in 3 against the top sides so how do people explain it? We've lost away to Reading, Manure, West Ham, Chelsea and Besiktas this season so it isn't so bad but still more than 1 in 5. Simple answer is the players don't contribute enough attacking wise beyond Gerrard and Torres and we've conceded 39 goals already which at roughly a goal a game isn't helping. While people may disagree on which personnel aren't good enough, I'm sure most of us could easily come up with 8 or 10 we'd not be sorry to see go.

I don't like 4-5-1, but unfortunately we've only one striker scoring enough goals and none of the wide players are producing. Too many of our players are good on paper, maybe we're guilty too of seeing what they can do and letting it cloud our judgement of what they actually do

[66-1112520797]

Torres was dropped against Birmingham because he wouldn't have had the space to play in, I felt like smacking him when he said that.

[Fo Dne]

I think the point with Gerrard is that he's that good that he can do everything, it's just a question where he is most effective. I know I go mad sometimes when he takes all the corners. It's not that he takes a bad corner because he doesn't, but he just happens to be fecking pretty good in the air as well and could like Ronaldo score plenty of headers if he was in there. He's by an absolute distance the best right back at the club, and one of the best right midfielders in the League never mind at the club. He's probably better at playing centre forward than Crouch, and would certainly be better than either Kuyt or Voronin if he played there. Allied to that of course he is very effective playing the hole behind torres, and is a World class central midfielder.

No question he could play as a box to box all action central midfielder, kind of like Roy Keane in his younger days, Paul Ince at his peak or a Gazza. He'd no doubt be their equal and their better in many cases, but I can't help thinking that while we have foreign managers it'll never ever happen, simply because they don't play with that type of player on the continent. You either are a defensive or an attacking midfielder in the modern game, whether that's because the players to play box to box aren't there or it's just a fashion I don't know but that's the way it is. It's definately an impossibility anyhow with Rafa whichever way you look at it, the last time Gerrard played box to box was in the derby and he got taken off for playing with his "heart not his head". Maybe if Martin O Neil or somebody similar were manager they might ask Gerrard to play that way but I can't see it under a foreign coach.

He's wasting one of the top three players in world football.

In Europe Rafa is spot on tactically. In the league though he leaves alot to be desired. Its poor to be honest.

Rafa should not be so stupid and play Gerrard to his strengths. Let him play a box to box CENTRAL MIDFIELD or right MIDFIELD role. Not a sham of a position.

He's got everything, make him use it everything to the maximum by playing him in a system which gets the best out his his engine, pace, drive, tackling, shooting, passing and desire.

To much tactical emphasis stifles great players like Gerrard. Simple as.

[Fo Dne]

Torres was dropped against Birmingham because he wouldn't have had the space to play in, I felt like smacking him when he said that.

Its fucking true.

I couldn't believe it when he said that. It was an insult to Liverpool fans. He obviously believes we're all that stupid.

[Leonmc0708]

Where di it all go wrong - beaten by a better team, (physically and mentally better) - the end.

[Judge]

i think we should rotate the formation  

oi, i asked that on page one second post matey

thief 

[66-1112520797]

Where di it all go wrong - beaten by a better team, (physically and mentally better) - the end.

But we rotate ....  No ?

[account deleted by request]

Great to see you back Stu, even if I only agree with half of your points.

Formation will not work with current players - Spot on, but I would add......... with our style of play as well.

Gerrard shouldn't play "in the hole" - spot on

Pennant good crosser and its the forwards fault - Pennant is just not good enough mate, too happy to just throw balls in the box whether anyone is there or not, rarely picks out a player when the option is there and wastes his final ball time after time.

Skrtle - I am not sure of yet mate (always takes me a while)

Babel - Your probably right

Arbeloa - spot on

Torres - you were spot on about him from day one mate

Carragher - Bit harsh imo, he needs a player who can read the game beside him, and then he's as good as anyone defensively.

As for Gareth Barry, he's a very good footballer but I just don't see him playing fullback or wing back anymore, and he hasn't the pace to play winger. So as we don't need a holding midfielder I don't think he will be on our wanted list come the end of the season mate.

Alonso - I think will go at the end of the season

Mascherano -  with Torres and Gerrard as our best 3 players this season, but we need more guile in the team than we have. We have no-one with real "game intelligence" at the moment.

Our real need is for a creative player with "brains".

[JoeTerp]

I think the point with Gerrard is that he's that good that he can do everything, it's just a question where he is most effective. I know I go mad sometimes when he takes all the corners. It's not that he takes a bad corner because he doesn't, but he just happens to be fecking pretty good in the air as well and could like Ronaldo score plenty of headers if he was in there. He's by an absolute distance the best right back at the club, and one of the best right midfielders in the League never mind at the club. He's probably better at playing centre forward than Crouch, and would certainly be better than either Kuyt or Voronin if he played there. Allied to that of course he is very effective playing the hole behind torres, and is a World class central midfielder.

No question he could play as a box to box all action central midfielder, kind of like Roy Keane in his younger days, Paul Ince at his peak or a Gazza. He'd no doubt be their equal and their better in many cases, but I can't help thinking that while we have foreign managers it'll never ever happen, simply because they don't play with that type of player on the continent. You either are a defensive or an attacking midfielder in the modern game, whether that's because the players to play box to box aren't there or it's just a fashion I don't know but that's the way it is. It's definately an impossibility anyhow with Rafa whichever way you look at it, the last time Gerrard played box to box was in the derby and he got taken off for playing with his "heart not his head". Maybe if Martin O Neil or somebody similar were manager they might ask Gerrard to play that way but I can't see it under a foreign coach.

He's wasting one of the top three players in world football.

In Europe Rafa is spot on tactically. In the league though he leaves alot to be desired. Its poor to be honest.

Rafa should not be so stupid and play Gerrard to his strengths. Let him play a box to box CENTRAL MIDFIELD or right MIDFIELD role. Not a sham of a position.

He's got everything, make him use it everything to the maximum by playing him in a system which gets the best out his his engine, pace, drive, tackling, shooting, passing and desire.

To much tactical emphasis stifles great players like Gerrard. Simple as.

yea he seems to be really struggling to score and to make goals for others right now