Liverpool FC Forum

[supersub]

I've been reading this particular thread with interest for a while now.
Allow me to chip in with my own thoughts.

In terms of out and out ability, I think few will argue that ability wise, Reina was the better overall keeper. Operative word here being was. In his last 2 seasons with us, I found him to be distinctly average and IMO, off form. The reasons behind that can be argued till the cows come home. There is that old adage that form is temporary, class permanent... but 2 years is not acceptable for me.

Simon has started his liverpool career well and I think even fewer will argue that he has been worth at least 4-6 points to our points tally already. Yes, he does have his moments when he gives me the heebie jeebies and of course there are a few areas where he needs to work on. But I definitely would not call him average. Like KK, for me the primary skill that a keeper needs is shot stopping and he is defintely better than Reina in that area.... much better.

Its a question of how you setup your team... not all keepers need to be excellent distributors of the ball. I would love one and it is definitely a distinct advantage but not completely essential. If it came down to choosing a keeper who is excellent at distribution but is average at shot stopping vs the vise versa, i would defintely choose the latter.

There are other ways to get the ball down field without needing a keeper to always be the one who spots the opening. The primary function of the keeper is to keep the goal safe. Everything else is a bonus and is what separates the the truly top drawer from the merely good.

Do i think he is in the top 6 or 7 keepers in the league? Yes he is.
Better than Begovic? No
Better than De Gea? Possibly
Better than Cech? No
Better than LLOris? Yes
Better than The Arsenal Keeper? Not even close.


Is he a good keeper? Definitely.

Once the defense stabilizes in front of him and he gets used to their methods and preferences and builds an understanding with them, he will be more than sound in my book.

World Class (god, i hate that term btw)? No he is not.... but neither was Reina who is a good keeper and is better (at his best) than Simon..... BUT he was MASSIVELY over rated by a lot of people and had too big a mouth and an attitude/persona I never liked. Under current conditions, I would take Simon over him any day.

After the debacle with the Barcelona nonsense, the club did the absolute right thing by letting him go. I was glad to see the back of him.
Wether we replaced him with an equivalent or better keeper in Simon is still up in the air but I would say no at the moment. But we did get a player who is better for the team IMO. And I think that this is one player that we will not rue as a mistake in the future.

Top post

[devaney]

Excellent post Connor.

[Benny The Noon]

Certainly wouldn't say Mignolet is better than Lloris.

Think Lloris is up there with Begovic and Cech as the best in the prem

There are quite a number of good keepers in the prem around the same level as Mignolet

Howard, Boruc , De Gea , Arsenal GK, Ruddy - they are have their areas of faults and are below the top three - Begovic , Lloris and Cech.

Pepe was up there with the best - the stats over the years back that up - consecutive golden gloves , in the top three GK of clean sheets regulary throughout his time with us. Even two seasons ago only two keepers had more clean sheets than Pepe.

I don't understand this attitude problem ? Whilst other players were leaving whilst we were struggling he stuck with us and even signed a new contract. Pepe had a connection with the Anfield faithful along the likes than Clem and Grob had.

So far Mignolet has made a few crucial saves - and they have saved us some points and he has gained rightful praise for that but he has also had a number of scarey moments that have cost us goals etc. He is a good shot stopper but GK's need to be a lot more than just a good shot stopper these days and he needs to improve on a number of areas.

[metalhead]

His constant flapping is cause of concern

[only me]

Certainly wouldn't say Mignolet is better than Lloris.

Think Lloris is up there with Begovic and Cech as the best in the prem

There are quite a number of good keepers in the prem around the same level as Mignolet

Howard, Boruc , De Gea , Arsenal GK, Ruddy - they are have their areas of faults and are below the top three - Begovic , Lloris and Cech.

Pepe was up there with the best - the stats over the years back that up - consecutive golden gloves , in the top three GK of clean sheets regulary throughout his time with us. Even two seasons ago only two keepers had more clean sheets than Pepe.

I don't understand this attitude problem ? Whilst other players were leaving whilst we were struggling he stuck with us and even signed a new contract. Pepe had a connection with the Anfield faithful along the likes than Clem and Grob had.

So far Mignolet has made a few crucial saves - and they have saved us some points and he has gained rightful praise for that but he has also had a number of scarey moments that have cost us goals etc. He is a good shot stopper but GK's need to be a lot more than just a good shot stopper these days and he needs to improve on a number of areas.

Is their a Keeper out their which doesn't give you scary moments? it's the most ungrateful position in the team ,but if at this stage we can count the points he saved the team then he is in excellent position. He is the best shot stopper in the league these days and while his control of the box  in set pieces is far from perfect ,his overall ability place him in the top 3 GK out their.

[Stu the Red]

Certainly wouldn't say Mignolet is better than Lloris.

Think Lloris is up there with Begovic and Cech as the best in the prem

There are quite a number of good keepers in the prem around the same level as Mignolet

Howard, Boruc , De Gea , Arsenal GK, Ruddy - they are have their areas of faults and are below the top three - Begovic , Lloris and Cech.

Pepe was up there with the best - the stats over the years back that up - consecutive golden gloves , in the top three GK of clean sheets regulary throughout his time with us. Even two seasons ago only two keepers had more clean sheets than Pepe.

I don't understand this attitude problem ? Whilst other players were leaving whilst we were struggling he stuck with us and even signed a new contract. Pepe had a connection with the Anfield faithful along the likes than Clem and Grob had.

So far Mignolet has made a few crucial saves - and they have saved us some points and he has gained rightful praise for that but he has also had a number of scarey moments that have cost us goals etc. He is a good shot stopper but GK's need to be a lot more than just a good shot stopper these days and he needs to improve on a number of areas.

Is their a Keeper out their which doesn't give you scary moments? it's the most ungrateful position in the team ,but if at this stage we can count the points he saved the team then he is in excellent position. He is the best shot stopper in the league these days and while his control of the box  in set pieces is far from perfect ,his overall ability place him in the top 3 GK out their.

Boruc, Begovic, Cech, Hart, De Gea, Szchezny (there I had a go) and Lloris are all far superior, I'd put him in the same bracket as Jaaskeleinan, Foster and one or two others who's name escapes me.

To be quite honest I find all this "he's a superb shot stopper" business quite laughable. All goal keepers "stop shots", he often dives for the camera's. Thats it. There are times when he could simply stand still or just move an arm yet he comes up with some mad dive and throws himself to the ground and all the seals in the crowd seem to clap.

I think alot of people fail to appreciate the value of positioning and reading the game and also decision making.

[Benny The Noon]

Certainly wouldn't say Mignolet is better than Lloris.

Think Lloris is up there with Begovic and Cech as the best in the prem

There are quite a number of good keepers in the prem around the same level as Mignolet

Howard, Boruc , De Gea , Arsenal GK, Ruddy - they are have their areas of faults and are below the top three - Begovic , Lloris and Cech.

Pepe was up there with the best - the stats over the years back that up - consecutive golden gloves , in the top three GK of clean sheets regulary throughout his time with us. Even two seasons ago only two keepers had more clean sheets than Pepe.

I don't understand this attitude problem ? Whilst other players were leaving whilst we were struggling he stuck with us and even signed a new contract. Pepe had a connection with the Anfield faithful along the likes than Clem and Grob had.

So far Mignolet has made a few crucial saves - and they have saved us some points and he has gained rightful praise for that but he has also had a number of scarey moments that have cost us goals etc. He is a good shot stopper but GK's need to be a lot more than just a good shot stopper these days and he needs to improve on a number of areas.

Is their a Keeper out their which doesn't give you scary moments? it's the most ungrateful position in the team ,but if at this stage we can count the points he saved the team then he is in excellent position. He is the best shot stopper in the league these days and while his control of the box  in set pieces is far from perfect ,his overall ability place him in the top 3 GK out their.

Best Shot Stopper in the league ? Really. Why didn't he save that Cabaye shot ?

[only me]

Certainly wouldn't say Mignolet is better than Lloris.

Think Lloris is up there with Begovic and Cech as the best in the prem

There are quite a number of good keepers in the prem around the same level as Mignolet

Howard, Boruc , De Gea , Arsenal GK, Ruddy - they are have their areas of faults and are below the top three - Begovic , Lloris and Cech.

Pepe was up there with the best - the stats over the years back that up - consecutive golden gloves , in the top three GK of clean sheets regulary throughout his time with us. Even two seasons ago only two keepers had more clean sheets than Pepe.

I don't understand this attitude problem ? Whilst other players were leaving whilst we were struggling he stuck with us and even signed a new contract. Pepe had a connection with the Anfield faithful along the likes than Clem and Grob had.

So far Mignolet has made a few crucial saves - and they have saved us some points and he has gained rightful praise for that but he has also had a number of scarey moments that have cost us goals etc. He is a good shot stopper but GK's need to be a lot more than just a good shot stopper these days and he needs to improve on a number of areas.

Is their a Keeper out their which doesn't give you scary moments? it's the most ungrateful position in the team ,but if at this stage we can count the points he saved the team then he is in excellent position. He is the best shot stopper in the league these days and while his control of the box  in set pieces is far from perfect ,his overall ability place him in the top 3 GK out their.

Boruc, Begovic, Cech, Hart, De Gea, Szchezny (there I had a go) and Lloris are all far superior, I'd put him in the same bracket as Jaaskeleinan, Foster and one or two others who's name escapes me.

To be quite honest I find all this "he's a superb shot stopper" business quite laughable. All goal keepers "stop shots", he often dives for the camera's. Thats it. There are times when he could simply stand still or just move an arm yet he comes up with some mad dive and throws himself to the ground and all the seals in the crowd seem to clap.

I think alot of people fail to appreciate the value of positioning and reading the game and also decision making.

Positioning and reading the game are of course part of the aspects a GK is measured by ,but if he doesn't have the reflex or instinct to back it up they are set to be average GK's ,The aspects you mentioned can all be acquired by experience and training ,Reflex can't be thought, And Simon has a bundle of it to start with. You mentioning all GK's names serves nor proves nothings ,If you missed his performance against Manure ,Stoke or Villa then I encourage you to go back to the film ,He was the difference between a 3 point team or the 9 points team we were.

[only me]

Certainly wouldn't say Mignolet is better than Lloris.

Think Lloris is up there with Begovic and Cech as the best in the prem

There are quite a number of good keepers in the prem around the same level as Mignolet

Howard, Boruc , De Gea , Arsenal GK, Ruddy - they are have their areas of faults and are below the top three - Begovic , Lloris and Cech.

Pepe was up there with the best - the stats over the years back that up - consecutive golden gloves , in the top three GK of clean sheets regulary throughout his time with us. Even two seasons ago only two keepers had more clean sheets than Pepe.

I don't understand this attitude problem ? Whilst other players were leaving whilst we were struggling he stuck with us and even signed a new contract. Pepe had a connection with the Anfield faithful along the likes than Clem and Grob had.

So far Mignolet has made a few crucial saves - and they have saved us some points and he has gained rightful praise for that but he has also had a number of scarey moments that have cost us goals etc. He is a good shot stopper but GK's need to be a lot more than just a good shot stopper these days and he needs to improve on a number of areas.

Is their a Keeper out their which doesn't give you scary moments? it's the most ungrateful position in the team ,but if at this stage we can count the points he saved the team then he is in excellent position. He is the best shot stopper in the league these days and while his control of the box  in set pieces is far from perfect ,his overall ability place him in the top 3 GK out their.

Best Shot Stopper in the league ? Really. Why didn't he save that Cabaye shot ?

I don't know why didn't you stop it? What kinda of lame question/arguments is that? I didn't say he was a perfect Shot Stopper but he is better then the rest.

[Benny The Noon]

I'm sorry but if your clamining someone is the best shot stopper in the prem then you should expect the keeper to stop that shot. I would say with confidence GKs like Lloris , Cech , Begovic plus a few others would have saved that shot.

[Stu the Red]

,The aspects you mentioned can all be acquired by experience and training ,Reflex can't be thought,

Not at twenty odd years of age they can't.

Reina had better than average reflexes and agility. it was backs up by THE MOST IMPORTANT GOAL KEEPING ATTRIBUTES, handling, positioning, decision making and anticipation.

Reina was also very very good one on an one and was lightening off his line. The only area Reina wasn't excellent in was his ability to claim crosses and he certainly wasn't bad at this.

Mignolet is absolutely nowhere near the same standard. Now that Barcelona have signed a goalkeeper I'm hopeful that will put the saga to bed and Pepe will come back and play here next season. If he does leave however... I can assure you all the top clubs around Europe will be after him.

[only me]

,The aspects you mentioned can all be acquired by experience and training ,Reflex can't be thought,

Not at twenty odd years of age they can't.

Reina had better than average reflexes and agility. it was backs up by THE MOST IMPORTANT GOAL KEEPING ATTRIBUTES, handling, positioning, decision making and anticipation.

Reina was also very very good one on an one and was lightening off his line. The only area Reina wasn't excellent in was his ability to claim crosses and he certainly wasn't bad at this.

Mignolet is absolutely nowhere near the same standard. Now that Barcelona have signed a goalkeeper I'm hopeful that will put the saga to bed and Pepe will come back and play here next season. If he does leave however... I can assure you all the top clubs around Europe will be after him.

Excellent post...But what does it got to do with my posts? I never compared Simon to Pepe ,Reina is a more complete GK no doubt ,I was arguing from Simon to be the best Shot Stopper Today in the PL ,while the rest can be acquired...

[only me]

I'm sorry but if your clamining someone is the best shot stopper in the prem then you should expect the keeper to stop that shot. I would say with confidence GKs like Lloris , Cech , Begovic plus a few others would have saved that shot.

Faulty Logic my friend, even the best Shot Stopper in the WORLD is expected to have lapses of concentration from time to time. I measure him for the cumulative stops he made so far. Your claim other's might have stopped Kabay's kick? probably ,but they would probably concede on many others Simon stopped...

[Stu the Red]

I'm sorry but if your clamining someone is the best shot stopper in the prem then you should expect the keeper to stop that shot. I would say with confidence GKs like Lloris , Cech , Begovic plus a few others would have saved that shot.

Faulty Logic my friend, even the best Shot Stopper in the WORLD is expected to have lapses of concentration from time to time. I measure him for the cumulative stops he made so far. Your claim other's might have stopped Kabay's kick? probably ,but they would probably concede on many others Simon stopped...

Betty doesn't understand that it could have been his positional play that was at fault for the goal not his "shot stopping". Betty only takes things literally and isn't able to comprehend anything else other than his own flawed "opinions". He's the sort of person that would have an "opinion" about a circle having four corners, but he can't be wrong, because its his "opinions".

Easier to place on ignore...

On a different note though, I hate the phrase "shot stopping". Shot stopping is a collection of attributes and doesn't cover certain things. Someone who is always in the right place so doesn't need to dive around like Mignolet is every bit technically as good a "shot stopper".

We've had this before on here when people were banging on about Kiraly years ago for Palace because he dived around alot. He was never any good but people used to think he was a worldie on this board because of it. Similar thing applies here.

Its a bit like a defender that makes a last ditch tackle on the edge of his own box, i'd much rather have the defender that cuts the same situation out on the half way line and starts a counter attack.

[only me]

I'm sorry but if your clamining someone is the best shot stopper in the prem then you should expect the keeper to stop that shot. I would say with confidence GKs like Lloris , Cech , Begovic plus a few others would have saved that shot.

Faulty Logic my friend, even the best Shot Stopper in the WORLD is expected to have lapses of concentration from time to time. I measure him for the cumulative stops he made so far. Your claim other's might have stopped Kabay's kick? probably ,but they would probably concede on many others Simon stopped...

Betty doesn't understand that it could have been his positional play that was at fault for the goal not his "shot stopping". Betty only takes things literally and isn't able to comprehend anything else other than his own flawed "opinions". He's the sort of person that would have an "opinion" about a circle having four corners, but he can't be wrong, because its his "opinions".

Easier to place on ignore...

On a different note though, I hate the phrase "shot stopping". Shot stopping is a collection of attributes and doesn't cover certain things. Someone who is always in the right place so doesn't need to dive around like Mignolet is every bit technically as good a "shot stopper".

We've had this before on here when people were banging on about Kiraly years ago for Palace because he dived around alot. He was never any good but people used to think he was a worldie on this board because of it. Similar thing applies here.

Its a bit like a defender that makes a last ditch tackle on the edge of his own box, i'd much rather have the defender that cuts the same situation out on the half way line and starts a counter attack.

Can't argue with the importance of positioning and reading the development of play but a lot of times a GK will find himself in a situation due to defense error or a striker superior skills that he is required for pure instinct ,here is where I find Simon to be as strong as they come. And I think the rest will come with time and experience ,Again not Reina (although Pepe didn't have great Control of his box in Set Pieces) ,but has a very solid baseline to start with.