Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

Extremely naive statement. 2 or 3 players of that calibre? Why don't make it 4? Do you know that there's other clubs than Liverpool that are considered big and have lots of money to spend, don't you?

Not naive, not atall. When you have supported a club like big club like Liverpool ALL your life, you do expect them at the very least to be challenging for honours. The league especially, it hasnt happened for a a long time, and of instead of talking the talk, i'd like to see LFC walk the walk in the Prem next season, and if that means signing quality players then so f.ucking be it.

No. There was a full rant of Rafa widely discussed here, in which he spoke about the importance of time

You've just said no, then agreed with me in the following sentence

Your first paragraph is mere demagogy.

We all know what's the record of Liverpool Football Club, but we also know the likes of Smicer, Cisse, Nuñez, or Traore have been brought to this club. Denying that in the last years before Rafa not big names were coming to the club is denying reality.  Liverpool had home grown quality (Owen, Carra, Gerrard) but the players coming from outside WERE NOT world class, and that's due to, among other things, money.

Your second paragraph is right. I interpreted wrongly as a question, not a statement. So yes, I agree you in that.

Bollox. You defend anything Spanish, in any Spanish player thread you defend them to the the hilt, then when people fairly critise Rafa you constantly counter it to the point of it being sooooooo fu.cking pedantic.

That's just you interpreting me as pedantic. Just the same way you interpreted me as Manuel the faulty towers waiter months ago, or as in a "power trip" when I did the mod task. It's just you and your mind. I cannot help you.

But that statement is wrong. I defend Crouch, Pennant, Morientes, Alonso, Reina, because I genuinelly think they're good players. Same for Agger, a great youngster. Not to mention the local quality.

Your statement is wrong, and you'll see I never defended Arbeloa, even when people praised him, I shut up. I never defended Nuñez, and I never defended Josemi. Quote me on that if you say I defend anything Spanish, or shut up the fúck up.

[redtrader74]

Anyone thinking we will sign 3 players from Bad bobs list doesn't have a clue. That would cost us the thick edge of £70m?? almost 3 times more than we have ever spent in any close season.

If we don't make signings by August i very much doubt there will be anyone who would be defending that position, eg 'there's plenty of time', that would be as stupid as saying, ' oh no we haven't signed anyone yet, why? the mancs have wha wha wha' right now. The transfer window only opened 6 days ago.

I very much doubt that Rafa and Parry are sitting on their hands right now, they just choose to keep their cards close to their chests (esp Rafa) until they have something worth declaring. Even Parry must be pulling up trees right now with new employers looking over his shoulder.

As far a Rafa is concerned IMHO not getting all the players he wants and early will not be for lack of trying, his recent interviews have identified that getting the right players and in early are a priority. Personally i would expect our major signings to be announced by the start of July, giving the players 5-6 weeks together.

[Sabre]

I agree all the post Redtrader, but I'd like to comment this

I very much doubt that Rafa and Parry are sitting on their hands right now, they just choose to keep their cards close to their chests (esp Rafa) until they have something worth declaring. Even Parry must be pulling up trees right now with new employers looking over his shoulder.

I'll judge the signing ups once the transfer window has ended. In the mean time, it doesn't make me happy to see our club linked to big names in press. Why? because the only thing you achieve when names are filtered to the press is to attract the attention of other clubs.

If, once the transfer window is finnished we see not good enough players for this club like Arbeloa, Kronkamp or Gonzalez, then it will be fair to criticise. But for what is worth what we know is that names are not being filtered. And it's early June, it's soon.

I think conformity is a bad thing, we should expect some good signins, and we should expect to challenge for the league next season. But patience is a good thing.

BTW Redtrader, keep posting, you make a lot of sense.

[bigmick]

I sort of agree with those who advocate the "let's get on with it" approach to signing players. It's time for the new owners of the club to splash the cash and support the manager. If it's to be Samuel Eto (and I sincerely hope it is), lets kick the door in and get him.
One thought does occur to me however in these days when seemingly everyone is advocating buying two or three absolute top quality players, once we've got 'em are we gonna rotate 'em? I know if I was the one being asked to stump up fifty million quid on a couple of players, I'd kind of want them to play if fit. If it was three genuine, no argument, first team players we bought then that would leave very little room for the fecking about we saw in the league last season.
It's time to back the manager, but if I was an owner I'd also be telling him to cut out the nonsense in terms of selection as well.

[happychappy]

Latest from SSN - But another Def Mid, Do we really need him??? Thoughts?

Liverpool are reportedly ready to secure first option on Real Betis starlet Juande, as part of a deal that will take Mark Gonzalez back to Spain.
Real Betis are believed to be leading the chase for the Chilean winger who has also been linked with Real Zaragoza and Real Sociedad - where he spent time on loan last year.
Sevillian sources claim that Betis are lining up a €3.5million (£2.3million) deal for Gonzalez.
Liverpool are ready to do business, but as part of the move Rafa Benitez is looking to line-up a deal for Juande.
The 20-year-old midfielder, who made the breakthrough into the Betis first at the end of last season, is seen as one of the brightest prospects in La Liga.
Juande is a defensive midfielder, a position Liverpool are currently well stocked, but Benitez is building for the future and would seemingly be more than happy with letting the youngster develop at Betis for at least another season.

[redtrader74]

BigMick look at the stats, the better Liverpool Players this season, Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Alonso, Pennant played the vast majority of the league games. There were hardly rotated, when they were it was in the run in to the CL semi and final.

[Sabre]

If Juande made 7 games this season in Real Betis Balonpie, I don't see him playing in Liverpool Football CLub first team, but the reserves. I don't know him, never focused him in my local stadium because quite honestly I don't think he was lined up.

Even if he's let another year in Betis, I don't see him a place here, but a really deep bench option after Alonso, and Mascherano (for holding or def mid) (1)

I guess it's a future sign up, but "starlet" is a bit too optimistic.


P.S. Which is always a good thing, remember we had to play with Carra as def mid one game this season because we hadn't other options.

[bigmick]

BigMick look at the stats, the better Liverpool Players this season, Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Alonso, Pennant played the vast majority of the league games. There were hardly rotated, when they were it was in the run in to the CL semi and final.

That's what I mean Red. If for instance we were to sign Alves, Malouda and Eto (I know that won't happen but bear with me a sec'), that would mean that Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alves, Malouda, Eto, Pennant, Possibly Kuyt and probably Agger would be givens. Now that's what I call a first team. Rotate the left back now and then, maybe a striker and the other central mid. Maybe I might be about to stop moaning about rotation   

Having said that, probably not 

[Sabre]

Fair enough Mick, but when Gerrard gets injured in a muscle don't blame it to bad luck, blame it to non-rotation.

[bigmick]

So what do we blame it on when players get injured but we are rotating then

I guess it comes back to the definition of rotation. Gerrard being rested at home against Wigan after ten games in four weeks? OK by me. Gerrards starting position changing from week to week, culminating in him starting wide left against Chelsea away, then wide right against Arsenal away, with Zenden starting in the centre, while the back four changes from week to week (in the early part of the season while we go through our annual "lets see if this'll work" phase whereby we concede any chance of winning the league by the end of October), and Peter Crouch scores a couple then sits on the bench next game while he is in the form of his life? Absolute total b0ll0cks if you ask me.

[The_Rock]

Latest news flash....the big signing hicks is toking about is Owen (not 100% confirm though).....not tevez...not eto.

So how do u guys feel about that ? disappointed ? 

[Sabre]

So what do we blame it on when players get injured but we are rotating then

I guess it comes back to the definition of rotation. Gerrard being rested at home against Wigan after ten games in four weeks? OK by me. Gerrards starting position changing from week to week, culminating in him starting wide left against Chelsea away, then wide right against Arsenal away, with Zenden starting in the centre, while the back four changes from week to week (in the early part of the season while we go through our annual "lets see if this'll work" phase whereby we concede any chance of winning the league by the end of October), and Peter Crouch scores a couple then sits on the bench next game while he is in the form of his life? Absolute total b0ll0cks if you ask me.

Look, all I can do to explain this is to echo some conference presses I watched in the place I work a couple of years ago. Every year comes people to talk about footie and related things

And a guy that was a Madrid doctor explained why rotations and rest are needed. He explained concepts like muscle fatigue, and many medicine concepts, that in all honesty, I didn't understand, but the big picture was that both the rythm of the game, and the amount of matches were far superior than 20 years ago, and rotation is a must to avoid certain injuries.

Then another doctor came to explain us how nowadays boot's studs are more fixed to the ground, and that's danger for the knees, and things like that.

My point mick is that there will always the traditional injury of twisting an ankle or a knee, or due to a bad kick. But it made sense to me how he explained the muscle fatigue thingy, with all that graphs and numbers I didn't understand  . But the whole idea made sense, and that's why I try to echo it.

Football wise, you're right. A fixed starting eleven that is working, don't change it. It's an universal truth that mate, and I agree that. But my point is that rotation is not a caprice, but a well studied thing. And I'm sure that football wise, if the squad is deep enough and good enough (Alonso if Mascherano doesn't play, not Zenden) it will work aswell.

About your point about sitting down a striker that is scoring, again, spot on.

In a nutshell some decissions might have been wrong, of course, Rafa makes mistakes like the next mate, but I don't think the whole idea of rotation is that bad.

My 5 cents, anyway.

[redtrader74]

BigMick look at the stats, the better Liverpool Players this season, Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Alonso, Pennant played the vast majority of the league games. There were hardly rotated, when they were it was in the run in to the CL semi and final.

That's what I mean Red. If for instance we were to sign Alves, Malouda and Eto (I know that won't happen but bear with me a sec'), that would mean that Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Alves, Malouda, Eto, Pennant, Possibly Kuyt and probably Agger would be givens. Now that's what I call a first team. Rotate the left back now and then, maybe a striker and the other central mid. Maybe I might be about to stop moaning about rotation   

Having said that, probably not 

I think we agree. The more top players we have the less it will seem we are rotating. My issue is that i don't think we have rotated as much as everyone thinks, at least not when it mattered, (Rafa rotated, but not 4-5 players each game as is written on this forum).
Secondly Our best form in the league, Rafa's 2nd season, and we rotated every game, so it isn't as harmful as a lot of posters think. (personally, i think it is a little excessive). So the reason for our mediocre form in the league this season cannot solely be down to that, or down to that at all.

[redtrader74]

So what do we blame it on when players get injured but we are rotating then

I guess it comes back to the definition of rotation. Gerrard being rested at home against Wigan after ten games in four weeks? OK by me. Gerrards starting position changing from week to week, culminating in him starting wide left against Chelsea away, then wide right against Arsenal away, with Zenden starting in the centre, while the back four changes from week to week (in the early part of the season while we go through our annual "lets see if this'll work" phase whereby we concede any chance of winning the league by the end of October), and Peter Crouch scores a couple then sits on the bench next game while he is in the form of his life? Absolute total b0ll0cks if you ask me.

At least those injuries will not be down to fatigue.....

[bigmick]

To be fair sabes we're never going to agree on this one until Rafa forgets about rotation next season and we win the title No seriously, as I've said a hundred times, nobody is suggesting that you play the same starting eleven in every game because that would be silly. You can't though make four or five changes to the team each week, both in terms of personel and positions/formations and expect to find fluency, that would be silly also. It may indeed be possible in the Spanish League, where ball retention is paramount, skill levels are higher, referees less tolerant and the general tempo of the game much slower, to replace skill with skill and not weaken the team unduly.

Not over here though. Teams over here have a go at you physically if they can't do so from a football point of view. You've got to fight for the right to play. To achieve that you need match fitness, cohesion and team spirit. I've said it before and I'll say it again here, no team will win the English Premier league on the back of mass rotations of the kind we tried at the beginning of last season. Not ever.

I think as well if I'm honest that those who defend it are actually sticking up for a position which is null and void. In each of the last three seasons, Rafa has rotated far too much at the start of the season, and then when our form has taken the absolutely inevitable downturn has picked a settled and his strongest team to arrest the slide. Equally inevitably this has resulted in us winning regualrly and climbing up the table. It's taken a while, but my hunch is that we will no longer see five and six changes every week in Premeirship encounters, as rafa himself now realises the folly of such a policy. I sincerely hope so anyway.