Sabre wrote:But the thread is about progress, and this is where a view with more perspective is needed, as in, look where we were when Rafa came, and look where we are right now.
And I think we have done not some, but a huge progress. Now we expect the league 5 years ago we couldn't do that reallistically. IN the Europe front, reaching semifinals and finals, should say something, but no, it seems it's an easy competition, I'm just sticking to the concept of challenging for the league title (a competition that seems to be getting easier as Rafa gets the hang of it too).
Some will tell you that if we don't rotate you'll have more chances to win the league. I won't discuss that, but make no mistake, if you play the same 11 thugs every week with little rest and they're mediocre, you won't win the league.
You could be waiting another 19 years.
It's the Reinas, it's the Alonsos, It's the Mascheranos, It's the Gerrards, it's the Torres what makes you win leagues. And just as it's a fact Rafa got wrong some signings in the summer, it's a fact Rafa brought those players (bar the captain), and more importantly, those players want to stay in this team.
We don't have our best players wishing to go, and that means they believe in the project. For progress you need to improve your squad. Before Rafa we had Gerrard and Owen wanting to leave. With Rafa we have quality players surrounding Gerrard and wanting to stay.
Once made clear that there's not some but a huge progress, we could adress the question "is it quick enough?".
Well, before Rafa we had been waiting 15 years to challenge seriously, with Rafa we're reaching that position at the end of his project.
If someone is tempted to make some tinkering and chopping with the managers, let's do so. It seems that we're going to see what happens after all because Rafa hasn't accepted the new contract. We'll know how good are the Klinsmanns, and the Hiddinks (funny this one who I like his style but coached no top clubs from ages ago). But I think it would be a mistake.
Let's see how we do with another not rotating manager, and let's see how people explain why we're not challenging if the worst happens. There will be good and lengthy explanations, of that, I'm pretty sure.
"Some will tell you that if we don't rotate you'll have more chances to win the league". They are idiots.
"Make no mistake, if you play the same 11 thugs every week with no rest and they're mediocre, you won't win the league". Precisely. Anybody who thinks you can play the same team every single weak is a fool, equally if you fill the team with thugs you won't win the league. I couldn't agree more. I think 19 years is conservative, nobody has ever won the league by playing the same team in every single match.
Sabre wrote:It's the Reinas, it's the Alonsos, It's the Mascheranos, It's the Gerrards, it's the Torres what makes you win leagues. And just as it's a fact Rafa got wrong some signings in the summer, it's a fact Rafa brought those players (bar the captain), and more importantly, those players want to stay in this team.
We don't have our best players wishing to go, and that means they believe in the project. For progress you need to improve your squad. Before Rafa we had Gerrard and Owen wanting to leave. With Rafa we have quality players surrounding Gerrard and wanting to stay.
Once made clear that there's not some but a huge progress, we could adress the question "is it quick enough?".
Well, before Rafa we had been waiting 15 years to challenge seriously, with Rafa we're reaching that position at the end of his project.
If someone is tempted to make some tinkering and chopping with the managers, let's do so. It seems that we're going to see what happens after all because Rafa hasn't accepted the new contract. We'll know how good are the Klinsmanns, and the Hiddinks (funny this one who I like his style but coached no top clubs from ages ago). But I think it would be a mistake.
Let's see how we do with another not rotating manager, and let's see how people explain why we're not challenging if the worst happens. There will be good and lengthy explanations, of that, I'm pretty sure.
Sabre wrote:Evidence says however, that Scolari's Chelsea is weaker. And evidence says Mourinho is doing well in Italy. So I have to eat my own opinion, and admit I was wrong.
.
s@int wrote:I think progress has been slow with perhaps one real backward step..... the summer signings after the FA Cup win back in 2006. Gerrard and Carra are probably at their peak now and there is only one way from there. Our progress was too slow for Sammi, I don't want to be still struggling for a title challenge AND having to replace Gerrard and Carra in a few seasons.
I don't believe we can continue to outspend the mancs year on year, so I think we need to try something a little different. I would reduce the size of the squad but improve the team. Yes we may have problems competing in all 4 competitions with a smaller squad, but we havent won much the last couple of years with a huge one .... have we? Get a nucleus of 14 or 15 top quality players instead of a squad of 25 + and maybe we can still outspend the mancs......where it counts on the first team.
Citeh seem certain to be added to the mix next season, Villa could well be pushing as well if they can hang onto their stars, things can only get harder imo. This could be the best chance we have for years.
It just seems to me we are playing into the mancs hands the way we are buying at the moment. We buy a £20million player....... they can buy a £30million one. While we spend millions more on swopping one average player just to be replaced by another player of similar average abilities. Riise and Dossena for example (sorry Riise), rather than paying for the top quality we need. There is an old saying ....buy cheap and pay twice.
If we don't push out all the stops now, it may be too late in a couple of years.
Maybe we will have to cut back on how much we are investing in youth in the short term as well. Once we have the first team in place...... then invest heavily in youth.
Think of the team we could have now if we had just had the money to close the deals.
Reina
Alves Carra Vidic Aurelio
Simao Gerrard Masch Barry
Torres Villa
With Aguero on the bench
redhayesy wrote:s@int wrote:I think progress has been slow with perhaps one real backward step..... the summer signings after the FA Cup win back in 2006. Gerrard and Carra are probably at their peak now and there is only one way from there. Our progress was too slow for Sammi, I don't want to be still struggling for a title challenge AND having to replace Gerrard and Carra in a few seasons.
I don't believe we can continue to outspend the mancs year on year, so I think we need to try something a little different. I would reduce the size of the squad but improve the team. Yes we may have problems competing in all 4 competitions with a smaller squad, but we havent won much the last couple of years with a huge one .... have we? Get a nucleus of 14 or 15 top quality players instead of a squad of 25 + and maybe we can still outspend the mancs......where it counts on the first team.
Citeh seem certain to be added to the mix next season, Villa could well be pushing as well if they can hang onto their stars, things can only get harder imo. This could be the best chance we have for years.
It just seems to me we are playing into the mancs hands the way we are buying at the moment. We buy a £20million player....... they can buy a £30million one. While we spend millions more on swopping one average player just to be replaced by another player of similar average abilities. Riise and Dossena for example (sorry Riise), rather than paying for the top quality we need. There is an old saying ....buy cheap and pay twice.
If we don't push out all the stops now, it may be too late in a couple of years.
Maybe we will have to cut back on how much we are investing in youth in the short term as well. Once we have the first team in place...... then invest heavily in youth.
Think of the team we could have now if we had just had the money to close the deals.
Reina
Alves Carra Vidic Aurelio
Simao Gerrard Masch Barry
Torres Villa
With Aguero on the bench
what no alonso in the team- shame on you!
kazza wrote:So what I am reading from this is Raffa is saying that if he is the one that will be held accountable from the fans then he wants to be responsible for all decisions made (ie no Parry interference). This is probably why Keane "hardly" plays as Raffa may not have wanted him. As I have said many times, we cannot properly comment as we do not have all the facts.
Is there a reason we do not use the "Our Progress Under Raffa" thread which documents the changing opinion of members and is a better timeline of events "Is it quick enough" is not is not really a different discussion.
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