Liverpool FC Forum

[Ben Patrick]

Ben why are you getting your knickers in a twist when most people are saying dont sell him, are you also saying people are not allowed to question whether his heart is still at the club but its a free for all on the manager.

For a few years on here people have openly criticised Gerrard for his supposed Stevie me attitude and he is imo is not given anywhere near the credit by fans on here that he deserves.

We have a manager that to some is god like despite the fact that he has won nothing for 3 years and blew the champions league final in 07.

Gerrard when he retires will be remembered as one of the top 3 players to wear the shirt, Benitez will be someone that promised alot early doors but fell by the wayside ala Houllier.

To compare the two winds me up as Gerrard is the best at what he does and has been for years, Rafa isnt and imo doesnt deserve the backing he gets.

[Emerald Red]

Steve's form has dipped big time this season. He's been almost anonymous. Yet, the old saying "form is temparary, and class is permanent" springs to mind. It's a shame, really. People are quick to outcast the manager for similar "sins" against the club, but when Steve Gerrard gets called into question, well, that's not allowed. If a player's form can dip, then be regained, why not a manager? I don't want to turn this thread into another one of those Rafa threads, but if Rafa gets sacked, then Gerrard could well be wanting an exit at this point in his career, and I could see him going abroad. If Gerrard wants to win the Prem, then there is only two places that could potentially happen within the next couple of years realistically. Chelsea (he was almost there at one point) and United (would never happen). Gerrard has been stating the importance of financial backing for a while now, and should anoter manager come in, there will be a new plan, and with relatively little to no money to do it. No. I can see him staying for the forseeable future with us to fight to get this club back on the rails, and for that to happen he needs to get his act together and so does the manager.

Point being that Rafa has been making bad decisions a lot longer than half a season and his 'I must be obeyed' attitude has got worse as time goes by

No comparison in my opinion

I don't know about that, but Steve's antics this season have p*ssed me off as much as our manager's antics. Gerrard's job is captain, and as captain on the pitch, it's his responsiblity once the ball is placed on that centre circle and kicked off to lead by example and keep the players' heads up. So far, I've seen mostly sulking, poor body language when he doesn't get the ball played to him when HE wants it, moaning to the ref wheh things aren't going his way, and diving about all over the place. He's been shocking this season, he really has. I've noticed Lucas getting a bashing left-right-and-centre, but I've not heard anyone with the balls to say that Lucas, so far this season, has been better than our captain. It would amaze me if anyone is even blind enough to dispute that. Lucas get's contantly slandered for playing square, but that's exactly what I've been noticing Gerrard doing. Players pick the ball up, and instead of them deciding do to what they want to do with it, Steve pops up, demands the ball, plays it square, and sometimes just completly losses it. He's been as guilty as any in the squad for underperforming. Out of the lot, Mascherano, Lucas, Reina and Torres can hold their heads up with some dignity and claim that they've been playing to what they are capable of. Lucas will never be accepted in a Liverpool shirt unless he starts cracking in 40 yard screamers.

[Emerald Red]

Ben why are you getting your knickers in a twist when most people are saying dont sell him, are you also saying people are not allowed to question whether his heart is still at the club but its a free for all on the manager.

For a few years on here people have openly criticised Gerrard for his supposed Stevie me attitude and he is imo is not given anywhere near the credit by fans on here that he deserves.

We have a manager that to some is god like despite the fact that he has won nothing for 3 years and blew the champions league final in 07.

Gerrard when he retires will be remembered as one of the top 3 players to wear the shirt, Benitez will be someone that promised alot early doors but fell by the wayside ala Houllier.

To compare the two winds me up as Gerrard is the best at what he does and has been for years, Rafa isnt and imo doesnt deserve the backing he gets.

You can't compare players to managers as far as being revered goes. That just simply isn't fair. A player can be sh*t one season, or for a few games, but if a manager is terrible, no matter how good a manager he is, for a short or sustained period of time, then more often than not, he is not given time and is axed completely. It's unfair that a player's failings is blamed directly on the manager. We currently have a squad full of them at the moment bar a few.

Oh, and let me be clear about Gerrard. Under no circumstances should he ever be sold. The day that happens is the day we're in real trouble at this club. Same goes for the likes of Torres. If we see players like that exiting this club with those owners still here, we are f*cked, plain and simple.

I also disagree with Gerrard not getting the credit he deserves with the fans. However, he is still not immune to critisism.

[Ben Patrick]

Then we agree then emerald.

The point of this thread, should we consider selling Gerrard ?

Answer - no


Btw i agree his form has been poor this season.
I do feel he is playing injured though.

[haps]

Stevie's not been at his best.  we all see that.  But it's obvious the reason is sheer frustration at the lack of supporting talent around him and a loss of faith in his manager's 'tactics'.  He's far more aware of the dire situation behind the scenes than anyone here - the lack of money for top players, the paying down of the debt cr*p, relationship problems with the manager.  And it's all affecting him.  I agree that he could probably do with holding his head up high a bit more often this season and leading by example.  But he's not a player we want to sell.  Ever.  What would Rafa do anyway... hang on, scrap that:  WHAT WOULD THE OWNER'S DO WITH THE MONEY WE GET FOR HIM?  Pay off more debt probably and throw Rafa a bone to buy an Italian or Spanish cast-off.  No thanks.  Steve Gerrard is the best player we have had at this club since Kenny.  For me, he stays.  The only answer to this situation we're in is to get insane amounts of investment and buy 2-3 world class players (easy, i know).   Then we can stop playing the likes of Kuyt and Lucas every week and a few of the other less 'dependables'.  Hate to go back to it but, after six years and no title and a club going backwards,  we could also do with a manager who can generate a better fighting team spirit.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

No comparison in my opinion

I don't know about that, but Steve's antics this season have p*ssed me off as much as our manager's antics. Gerrard's job is captain, and as captain on the pitch, it's his responsiblity once the ball is placed on that centre circle and kicked off to lead by example and keep the players' heads up. So far, I've seen mostly sulking, poor body language when he doesn't get the ball played to him when HE wants it, moaning to the ref wheh things aren't going his way, and diving about all over the place. He's been shocking this season, he really has. I've noticed Lucas getting a bashing left-right-and-centre, but I've not heard anyone with the balls to say that Lucas, so far this season, has been better than our captain. It would amaze me if anyone is even blind enough to dispute that. Lucas get's contantly slandered for playing square, but that's exactly what I've been noticing Gerrard doing. Players pick the ball up, and instead of them deciding do to what they want to do with it, Steve pops up, demands the ball, plays it square, and sometimes just completly losses it. He's been as guilty as any in the squad for underperforming. Out of the lot, Mascherano, Lucas, Reina and Torres can hold their heads up with some dignity and claim that they've been playing to what they are capable of. Lucas will never be accepted in a Liverpool shirt unless he starts cracking in 40 yard screamers.[/quote]
I suppose you could look at it like that... or  you could say he has been playing only because of the injections he has had before and after games.. and still at a higher performance level than some team mates.. oh and yes.. without training...

I suppose it is because he is SO good that when he has a bad patch we all think he is playing .

Its a bit like the way Alonso was berated, even though most would agree.. even in the seasons when he wasnt at his best he was still head and shoulders above most of our current first 11

[Reg]

Ben why are you getting your knickers in a twist when most people are saying dont sell him, are you also saying people are not allowed to question whether his heart is still at the club but its a free for all on the manager.

For a few years on here people have openly criticised Gerrard for his supposed Stevie me attitude and he is imo is not given anywhere near the credit by fans on here that he deserves.

We have a manager that to some is god like despite the fact that he has won nothing for 3 years and blew the champions league final in 07.

Gerrard when he retires will be remembered as one of the top 3 players to wear the shirt, Benitez will be someone that promised alot early doors but fell by the wayside ala Houllier.

To compare the two winds me up as Gerrard is the best at what he does and has been for years, Rafa isnt and imo doesnt deserve the backing he gets.

The important thing is to get people thinking more laterally, the system is not working so we have to look at all the pieces, not just the owners, the manager, the players we didnt sign as well as those we did and those players we are so used to seeing in a red shirt that we dont even question their place anymore.

Are we building for the future or stuck in the past, compare the young SG of 2005 with todays face... its not the same fella. Are we moving him around to cover the cracks in the walls as GED and Rafa moved Carra around when the back 4 was so unstable? All these issues need to be revisited to find the right plan to move forward.

[Ben Patrick]

Ben why are you getting your knickers in a twist when most people are saying dont sell him, are you also saying people are not allowed to question whether his heart is still at the club but its a free for all on the manager.

For a few years on here people have openly criticised Gerrard for his supposed Stevie me attitude and he is imo is not given anywhere near the credit by fans on here that he deserves.

We have a manager that to some is god like despite the fact that he has won nothing for 3 years and blew the champions league final in 07.

Gerrard when he retires will be remembered as one of the top 3 players to wear the shirt, Benitez will be someone that promised alot early doors but fell by the wayside ala Houllier.

To compare the two winds me up as Gerrard is the best at what he does and has been for years, Rafa isnt and imo doesnt deserve the backing he gets.

The important thing is to get people thinking more laterally, the system is not working so we have to look at all the pieces, not just the owners, the manager, the players we didnt sign as well as those we did and those players we are so used to seeing in a red shirt that we dont even question their place anymore.

Are we building for the future or stuck in the past, compare the young SG of 2005 with todays face... its not the same fella. Are we moving him around to cover the cracks in the walls as GED and Rafa moved Carra around when the back 4 was so unstable? All these issues need to be revisited to find the right plan to move forward.

The system is not working due to the two centre midfielders having poor creativity and not spotting passes anywhere near quick enough.
Alonso was a master at switching the play right to left and mixing short and long passing to catch teams off guard.
Gerrard and Torres if fit as the front two in a 4-5-1 would be fine if we had someone behind them that could dictate the tempo like Xabi did.
The fact that we dont means that we do need to change the system yes.
But you dont want to sell your best player, just make sure if you sell a key player like Alonso - that if you want to play the same system that was working, then replace the key player with a similar style of player.
Even if Aquilani was fit he doesnt appear of that ilk.

Managers fault.

[account deleted by request]

Ben why are you getting your knickers in a twist when most people are saying dont sell him, are you also saying people are not allowed to question whether his heart is still at the club but its a free for all on the manager.

For a few years on here people have openly criticised Gerrard for his supposed Stevie me attitude and he is imo is not given anywhere near the credit by fans on here that he deserves.

We have a manager that to some is god like despite the fact that he has won nothing for 3 years and blew the champions league final in 07.

Gerrard when he retires will be remembered as one of the top 3 players to wear the shirt, Benitez will be someone that promised alot early doors but fell by the wayside ala Houllier.

To compare the two winds me up as Gerrard is the best at what he does and has been for years, Rafa isnt and imo doesnt deserve the backing he gets.

Spot on again mate , as is the post above this one 

[SouthCoastShankly]

What's the market rate for Gerrard, £40m MAX. You are fools if you think he would go for more. My issue is that his influence is worth so much more than the market can buy him for. The goals he has scored have paid back the club 10 fold in revenue.

If Ronaldo is 80 million worth, then Gerrard is worth at least that, or a little under. He's easily the best footballer of his kind this generation and still has at least 5 years left in him.

You clearly fail to understand the transfer market then. Ronaldo's price was predominantly due to the fact he is that good so young. Age is a massive factor.

Would a club pay 80m for Gerrard knowing he is at his peak now and less likely to improve? I doubt it.

Quality and legend as he is, his age would hinder any big spend by a would be purchaser.

[Reg]

Unless he was told he had to sell players to buy players and he planned to bring in Barry + Keane using the Alonso money then got stiffed by the owners who refused to pay up for Barry, then stuck with one piece of the jigsaw realised it wasnt going to work and had to offload him and was left with a hole on teh left side and hole up front.

Owners fault.

[Reg]

Half of Ronaldo´s value is his 'marketability', ie the Beckham factor.

The other half - 40 million is his football skill and age advantage.

[Emerald Red]

No comparison in my opinion

I don't know about that, but Steve's antics this season have p*ssed me off as much as our manager's antics. Gerrard's job is captain, and as captain on the pitch, it's his responsiblity once the ball is placed on that centre circle and kicked off to lead by example and keep the players' heads up. So far, I've seen mostly sulking, poor body language when he doesn't get the ball played to him when HE wants it, moaning to the ref wheh things aren't going his way, and diving about all over the place. He's been shocking this season, he really has. I've noticed Lucas getting a bashing left-right-and-centre, but I've not heard anyone with the balls to say that Lucas, so far this season, has been better than our captain. It would amaze me if anyone is even blind enough to dispute that. Lucas get's contantly slandered for playing square, but that's exactly what I've been noticing Gerrard doing. Players pick the ball up, and instead of them deciding do to what they want to do with it, Steve pops up, demands the ball, plays it square, and sometimes just completly losses it. He's been as guilty as any in the squad for underperforming. Out of the lot, Mascherano, Lucas, Reina and Torres can hold their heads up with some dignity and claim that they've been playing to what they are capable of. Lucas will never be accepted in a Liverpool shirt unless he starts cracking in 40 yard screamers.

I suppose you could look at it like that... or  you could say he has been playing only because of the injections he has had before and after games.. and still at a higher performance level than some team mates.. oh and yes.. without training...

I suppose it is because he is SO good that when he has a bad patch we all think he is playing .

Its a bit like the way Alonso was berated, even though most would agree.. even in the seasons when he wasnt at his best he was still head and shoulders above most of our current first 11[/quote]
He's been like that from the start of the season before he got injured, so the excuse of him playing with injury or not being fit doesn't totally stand up. How come a player like Torres can come back and show fire and determination, score goals, and do his fair share of defending also? He's been injured for longer periods than Gerrard has. No. There is a stark contrast in the mentallity of the two. Perhaps Torres is still naive enough to think we could win the league, whereas Gerrard has resigned himself to the fact that we won't? There's a lack of hunger in his play in general. Gerrard also seems to be desparate to get on the score sheet in games too, sometimes not opting for the sensible pass, and instead trying to cut inside for his trademark screamer where he either gets blocked or tackled. It hasn't worked once this season for him.

[Emerald Red]

What's the market rate for Gerrard, £40m MAX. You are fools if you think he would go for more. My issue is that his influence is worth so much more than the market can buy him for. The goals he has scored have paid back the club 10 fold in revenue.

If Ronaldo is 80 million worth, then Gerrard is worth at least that, or a little under. He's easily the best footballer of his kind this generation and still has at least 5 years left in him.

You clearly fail to understand the transfer market then. Ronaldo's price was predominantly due to the fact he is that good so young. Age is a massive factor.

Would a club pay 80m for Gerrard knowing he is at his peak now and less likely to improve? I doubt it.

Quality and legend as he is, his age would hinder any big spend by a would be purchaser.

Was age a factor with Figo and Zidane? I rest my case.

[account deleted by request]

Unless he was told he had to sell players to buy players and he planned to bring in Barry + Keane using the Alonso money then got stiffed by the owners who refused to pay up for Barry, then stuck with one piece of the jigsaw realised it wasnt going to work and had to offload him and was left with a hole on teh left side and hole up front.

Owners fault.

He had to sell Alonso first before that becomes a reasonable theory. No-one was willing to pay over £14million for Alonso at the time, so Rafa should have altered his plans. Sadly Rafa tends to be fixed minded and not very adaptable.

Managers fault.