Liverpool FC Forum

[JohnBull]

It's like the modern education system where they will dumb down before trying to pull up the slow ones.
If playing alongside Gerrard doesn't spur you on then it's the East Lancs for you. He and Torres just need the others to make space for them. When I see the likes of Lucas trying to be clever and buggering up moves that's when I see red with Raffa. He should be telling these idiots to join the chorus and leave the spotlight to the leading lights.

[Owzat]

No one actually considers the point being made in the article that psychologically he appears to stun the rest of the team into submission, that whether you're Kewell, Smicer, Cisse, Keane, Babel, Lucas or even Reira now, very few people play to their full potential in the same team as SG. People on this forum have asked why RAFA takes good players and makes them ordinary, its blatently obvious that players dont raise their game when the come to Liverpool - SG has god like status so no one questions whether he is an influence and blame the managwer (again...). What the article's hinting at is if we let Stevie go, that there might be a weight off the collective shoulders of the first team, a pick up in moral and with a resultant improvement in open play performance and goals?

I dont subscribe to the myth that SG is untouchable and its not something we can judge from afar but this journalist is no fool so maybe theres a grain of truth in it.

Open mind time lads...........

I actually agree for once, it's what I call the "Beckham effect". While Beckham may produce the odd goal or assist for England, for me we look a much better TEAM without him.

And if we could get silly money for him then I wouldn't say he is irreplacable, the problem is would the manager make most of any money given him?

re "the spine" as mentioned in a post and replies, sure it looks good on paper, but that spine is growingly over-rated by our fans and having considerably less impact on the pitch than most would hope or expect. It's easy to blame those not in the spine, but in truth I think those out wide plus Lucas aren't great players, but the ones we consider great are playing down to their standard. Perhaps the truth is Gerrard is becoming increasingly disillusioned by the state of our club, the effect of Istanbul wearing off and now he struggles to motivate himself knowing in his heart of hearts the team is not good enough.

People automatically dismiss selling any of Reina, Torres, Gerrard or Mascherano, but never consider any factors that may make it a good move - an excellent fee, lacking motivation, a change of direction needed (via a change in formation) etc. People almost instantly talk of those players as though they are always at their peak, playing well, fully motivated and have 999 years on their contracts and have just turned 25. Here's a newsflash, our players are getting older and are no spring chickens. Gerrard might stay here until he's 36+, but he's not that far off it folks.

Torres is now 25 (26 in March)
Benayoun is now 29 (30 in May)
Carra is now 31 (32 in January)
Mascherano is now 25 (26 in June)
Gerrard is now 29 (30 in May)
Johnson is now 25 (26 in August)
Reina is now 27 (28 in August)

This time next year THREE of those key players will be 30+, the youngest three will be 26 and Reina 28. While I don't subscribe to common theory that over 30 is over the hill, it isn't exactly going to make them optimum value even if they may still perform to the highest levels. Riera's 27, Kuyt 29, and Aurelio 30 with both Agger and Skrtel turned 25 only just over a week ago.

So perhaps if the RIGHT bid came in we should consider it, like spudz accepted a £20.3m bid for Keane at the ripe old age of 28. While we may not want favourites to leave the club, the club must move forward and those favourites can bring in much needed income and plenty have come and gone without winning anything. That's not to say we should sell our best players, but everything has a price. I'd rather sell Mascherano for £30m, but if someone bid £60m+ for Gerrard I'd consider it carefully. How long has he got left on his contract?

[Reg]

Good response Statto.

[7_Kewell]

if people are talking about if Gerrard is bad for the state of mind of the squad, just imagine what things would be like when Torres followed him.

Selling our best player would be a disaster, because it would signal to the rest of the squad that we've given up trying to be the best.

[Ben Patrick]

No one actually considers the point being made in the article that psychologically he appears to stun the rest of the team into submission, that whether you're Kewell, Smicer, Cisse, Keane, Babel, Lucas or even Reira now, very few people play to their full potential in the same team as SG. People on this forum have asked why RAFA takes good players and makes them ordinary, its blatently obvious that players dont raise their game when the come to Liverpool - SG has god like status so no one questions whether he is an influence and blame the managwer (again...). What the article's hinting at is if we let Stevie go, that there might be a weight off the collective shoulders of the first team, a pick up in moral and with a resultant improvement in open play performance and goals?

I dont subscribe to the myth that SG is untouchable and its not something we can judge from afar but this journalist is no fool so maybe theres a grain of truth in it.

Open mind time lads...........

Why is he no fool ?

I have seen him on that sunday supplement loads of times and he talks sh!te.
Bald headed fella he is isnt he ?
If its him he talks as much rubbish as the others.

Its crazy how some fans stand by the manager who has given us nowhere near as much as our skipper but then can criticise Gerrard for things he cant control.

If these players are not strong enough willed to deal with the pressure of playing for LFC that says more about them than it does our captain.

I dont see even a mere glimpse of anything intelligent in your response.

You're not Dazzer are you?

No Reg, my old profile was Ace Ventura.

What was so stupid about the response ?

We have a sensationalist journo making stupid comments about the best player to play for our club in 20 years which i dont agree with so i stated my point.

Nothing lacking in intelligence in that response.

Gerrard is undervalued by too many and it gets on my nerves.

[account deleted by request]

What was so stupid about the response ?

We have a sensationalist journo making stupid comments about the best player to play for our club in 20 years which i dont agree with so i stated my point.

Nothing lacking in intelligence in that response.

Gerrard is undervalued by too many and it gets on my nerves.

Spot on

[Ben Patrick]

Thanks Saint 

Seriously though the amount of criticism or lack or praise that Stevie gets is beyond belief at times.
Like jonbull has said, if players dont play better under Gerrard then ship them out if possible.

Its not his fault Rafa has bought players that arent good enough to be in the team alongside him.
No wonder the lad looks f'cked off.

But for so many fans Rafa is a messiah for winning us no5 and Gerrard is not due to the fact that he contemplated leaving.
Yeah i was gutted then but he didnt leave. He stayed and since then he has one FA cup to show for it and looks like getting feck all this season again.

The champions league win that Rafa masterminded was inspired mostly by our skipper that night with the first goal in the comeback and then the driving run for the penalty.

Short memories some people have.

If some idiotic journo wants to suggest selling our best player to improve the clubs fortunes he should be ridiculed not agreed with.

[teamleader1]

if people are talking about if Gerrard is bad for the state of mind of the squad, just imagine what things would be like when Torres followed him.

Selling our best player would be a disaster, because it would signal to the rest of the squad that we've given up trying to be the best.

Exactly!

Why don't we just get shut of Johnson, Pepe, Carra, Aurelio, Masch, SG & Torres just in case the rest of the squad feel intimidated?

I thought the better players inspired the others to improve and try that bit harder

I want that attitude at Anfield   

[SouthCoastShankly]

What's the market rate for Gerrard, £40m MAX. You are fools if you think he would go for more. My issue is that his influence is worth so much more than the market can buy him for. The goals he has scored have paid back the club 10 fold in revenue.

[Emerald Red]

Steve's form has dipped big time this season. He's been almost anonymous. Yet, the old saying "form is temparary, and class is permanent" springs to mind. It's a shame, really. People are quick to outcast the manager for similar "sins" against the club, but when Steve Gerrard gets called into question, well, that's not allowed. If a player's form can dip, then be regained, why not a manager? I don't want to turn this thread into another one of those Rafa threads, but if Rafa gets sacked, then Gerrard could well be wanting an exit at this point in his career, and I could see him going abroad. If Gerrard wants to win the Prem, then there is only two places that could potentially happen within the next couple of years realistically. Chelsea (he was almost there at one point) and United (would never happen). Gerrard has been stating the importance of financial backing for a while now, and should anoter manager come in, there will be a new plan, and with relatively little to no money to do it. No. I can see him staying for the forseeable future with us to fight to get this club back on the rails, and for that to happen he needs to get his act together and so does the manager.

[Emerald Red]

What's the market rate for Gerrard, £40m MAX. You are fools if you think he would go for more. My issue is that his influence is worth so much more than the market can buy him for. The goals he has scored have paid back the club 10 fold in revenue.

If Ronaldo is 80 million worth, then Gerrard is worth at least that, or a little under. He's easily the best footballer of his kind this generation and still has at least 5 years left in him.

[J*o*n*D*o*e]

Ben why are you getting your knickers in a twist when most people are saying dont sell him, are you also saying people are not allowed to question whether his heart is still at the club but its a free for all on the manager.

[teamleader1]

Steve's form has dipped big time this season. He's been almost anonymous. Yet, the old saying "form is temparary, and class is permanent" springs to mind. It's a shame, really. People are quick to outcast the manager for similar "sins" against the club, but when Steve Gerrard gets called into question, well, that's not allowed. If a player's form can dip, then be regained, why not a manager? I don't want to turn this thread into another one of those Rafa threads, but if Rafa gets sacked, then Gerrard could well be wanting an exit at this point in his career, and I could see him going abroad. If Gerrard wants to win the Prem, then there is only two places that could potentially happen within the next couple of years realistically. Chelsea (he was almost there at one point) and United (would never happen). Gerrard has been stating the importance of financial backing for a while now, and should anoter manager come in, there will be a new plan, and with relatively little to no money to do it. No. I can see him staying for the forseeable future with us to fight to get this club back on the rails, and for that to happen he needs to get his act together and so does the manager.

Point being that Rafa has been making bad decisions a lot longer than half a season and his 'I must be obeyed' attitude has got worse as time goes by

No comparison in my opinion

[woof woof !]

Sack the Manager ! Sell Gerrard !

For f'ucks sake, that'll deffo sort out the problems.

Tell yer what , instead of going into a panic lets' all just lie on the floor and act manic !

[teamleader1]

Sack the Manager ! Sell Gerrard !

For f'ucks sake, that'll deffo sort out the problems.

Tell yer what , instead of going into a panic lets' all just lie on the floor and act manic !

OK!

keep Voronin and Extend Rafas contract