Liverpool FC Forum

[Thewaykokid]

I have never been keen on Keane, always thought he had limited vision, poor passing and very poor at creating space or helping his strike partner. I have always thought he was a good goalscorer though, and have no doubt that once he starts knocking them in he will get 10-15 goals a season for us.

He was never worth £20million but thats neither his fault or problem. His problem is to start scoring goals and playing to his best level for us.

I am still unsure why he has had such difficulties settling but I am sure he will improve.

I'm not sure he will get 10-15 goals, then again Heskey and Crouch managed to score some goals playing up front so there's no reason he can't.

He's now played near 900 mins for Liverpool, 7 games home and 7 games away, with just two goals. That's one goal for every THREE FULL 90 MINS he plays in a Liverpool shirt so far. Was he worth £20m? Never in a month of Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays. He's at an age where he may well be at or past his peak, we'll never see anything like £20m back on him and while you have to pay for quality, we've yet to see much of a return - £10m per goal so far, more misses than goals by plenty.

Is he another Kuyt? No, and even if he was where would he play? Kuyt can tackle, work hard, runs for 90 mins and pops up for late crucial goals. Keane has only shown some of those qualities and not with any great consistency.

The biggest worry for me overall is that fans (on here especially) are willing Keane to do well and that's clouding their judgement over the best interests of the team - a bit like the Kuyt Grande Bashers (KGB) trying to out Kuyt because they either don't like him or don't know much about what he does for the team. We shouldn't be playing Keane until he hits form, Rafa made that mistake with Crouch and finally when he did score, he was still far from prolific. Give him fair chance, but don't bend over backwards to put a struggling striker in the team WILLING him to score, yet knowing that the chances are he won't (7-1 at the moment)

And of course THE miss last night was crucial, although obviously without his goal - offside or otherwise - we'd have been even worse off. Even now people are still 'making excuses' for him and hoping that he 'comes good', how long is 'only a matter of time' and why on earth would or should we grant a £20m striker that? (at the expense of the team's best interests)

Bench on Sunday unless Torres is not available, no two ways about it. Yet I bet that people will say "he scored, we need to keep him in the side to boost his confidence" as was the case last time he scored. He is 28 ffs, if he can't get over selection policies of managers by now then he definitely shouldn't have been signed. Reckoning is he was taken off because of his miss, probably is correct because Rafa tends to make substitutions AT LEAST six minutes AFTER Keane was taken off, quite often around the 60-70 mins mark. That was pretty early for Rafa

wnkr 

go support everton you tickturd

[Sabre]

He's now played near 900 mins for Liverpool, 7 games home and 7 games away, with just two goals. That's one goal for every THREE FULL 90 MINS he plays in a Liverpool shirt so far. Was he worth £20m? Never in a month of Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays. He's at an age where he may well be at or past his peak, we'll never see anything like £20m back on him and while you have to pay for quality, we've yet to see much of a return - £10m per goal so far, more misses than goals by plenty.

Is he another Kuyt? No, and even if he was where would he play? Kuyt can tackle, work hard, runs for 90 mins and pops up for late crucial goals. Keane has only shown some of those qualities and not with any great consistency.

The biggest worry for me overall is that fans (on here especially) are willing Keane to do well and that's clouding their judgement over the best interests of the team - a bit like the Kuyt Grande Bashers (KGB) trying to out Kuyt because they either don't like him or don't know much about what he does for the team. We shouldn't be playing Keane until he hits form, Rafa made that mistake with Crouch and finally when he did score, he was still far from prolific. Give him fair chance, but don't bend over backwards to put a struggling striker in the team WILLING him to score, yet knowing that the chances are he won't (7-1 at the moment)

Very dissapointing post.

Your biggest worry is that the fans that wish that Keane does well have their judgement clouded.

Of course we want him to do well. But if you are to tell anyone here we have the judgement clouded please set an example and be fair with Keane.

How is it objective and a not clouded judgement to pick his price, 20M and make the division of how many goals he have scored when he's in the first months of his contract?

Of course that I respect you if you tell me that with another option we'll defend better our team's interest. But instead of making the divisions and short stats in time that mean nothing, why don't you comment who would you play instead of Keane and why?

Also, if you leave aside his goals, which are a matter of streaks as Torres proved this season, don't you think his work outside the box is better than the likes of Morientes, Voronin, Bellamy or Crouch?

I appreciated Crouch's football for some other reasons, but the other playeres provided less to our game than Keane does IMHO.

If you think the opposite, fair enough Owzat, but explain me why and not with numbers like 20 M divided by 2 goals, it's 10 M per goal. Please.

[Scottbot]

I have never been keen on Keane, always thought he had limited vision, poor passing and very poor at creating space or helping his strike partner. I have always thought he was a good goalscorer though, and have no doubt that once he starts knocking them in he will get 10-15 goals a season for us.

He was never worth £20million but thats neither his fault or problem. His problem is to start scoring goals and playing to his best level for us.

I am still unsure why he has had such difficulties settling but I am sure he will improve.

I'm not sure he will get 10-15 goals, then again Heskey and Crouch managed to score some goals playing up front so there's no reason he can't.

He's now played near 900 mins for Liverpool, 7 games home and 7 games away, with just two goals. That's one goal for every THREE FULL 90 MINS he plays in a Liverpool shirt so far. Was he worth £20m? Never in a month of Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays. He's at an age where he may well be at or past his peak, we'll never see anything like £20m back on him and while you have to pay for quality, we've yet to see much of a return - £10m per goal so far, more misses than goals by plenty.

Is he another Kuyt? No, and even if he was where would he play? Kuyt can tackle, work hard, runs for 90 mins and pops up for late crucial goals. Keane has only shown some of those qualities and not with any great consistency.

The biggest worry for me overall is that fans (on here especially) are willing Keane to do well and that's clouding their judgement over the best interests of the team - a bit like the Kuyt Grande Bashers (KGB) trying to out Kuyt because they either don't like him or don't know much about what he does for the team. We shouldn't be playing Keane until he hits form, Rafa made that mistake with Crouch and finally when he did score, he was still far from prolific. Give him fair chance, but don't bend over backwards to put a struggling striker in the team WILLING him to score, yet knowing that the chances are he won't (7-1 at the moment)

And of course THE miss last night was crucial, although obviously without his goal - offside or otherwise - we'd have been even worse off. Even now people are still 'making excuses' for him and hoping that he 'comes good', how long is 'only a matter of time' and why on earth would or should we grant a £20m striker that? (at the expense of the team's best interests)

Bench on Sunday unless Torres is not available, no two ways about it. Yet I bet that people will say "he scored, we need to keep him in the side to boost his confidence" as was the case last time he scored. He is 28 ffs, if he can't get over selection policies of managers by now then he definitely shouldn't have been signed. Reckoning is he was taken off because of his miss, probably is correct because Rafa tends to make substitutions AT LEAST six minutes AFTER Keane was taken off, quite often around the 60-70 mins mark. That was pretty early for Rafa

With your thoughts/opinions on Crouch, Kuyt and Keane it does seem to me that you like to play Newkit's 'Devil's advocate' on here for much of the time? I find it strange that you frequently used statistics so to make your points about Crouch in the past, then talk about Kuyt's unsung work and his overall value to the team (i don't think i'm the only one who thinks it is out of character for you) and then back to the stats to highlight Keane's performances. I haven't checked but if we decided to look at current/recent form what would Keane's performances look like if we evaluated them since his opening goal a few games back? When the team are playing well, winning games and making a run of it (at least for now) I find it difficult to point too many fingers. i'm not the biggest fan of Dossena and the same could be said for our other full-backs if i'm honest, but at the moment they are part of a wining team. 

As for Keane, he's playing better. I've always liked him and i still do. Of course we are not gonna get back the £20 million we shelled out on him, anyone can see that (surely?)

[richymac]

i think that robbie is doing a cracking job over the last 3/4 games (seems to have kicked off since he set up torres goal in derby). Just dont understnad why rafa left him out the game after he got his debut goal??
give the lad time, he'll defo come up trumps
by the way can anyone help me out with this (think I might have bought a fake shirt but need help confirming this)?
http://isthisfake.blog.co.uk/2008/10/

[Owzat]

I have never been keen on Keane, always thought he had limited vision, poor passing and very poor at creating space or helping his strike partner. I have always thought he was a good goalscorer though, and have no doubt that once he starts knocking them in he will get 10-15 goals a season for us.

He was never worth £20million but thats neither his fault or problem. His problem is to start scoring goals and playing to his best level for us.

I am still unsure why he has had such difficulties settling but I am sure he will improve.

I'm not sure he will get 10-15 goals, then again Heskey and Crouch managed to score some goals playing up front so there's no reason he can't.

He's now played near 900 mins for Liverpool, 7 games home and 7 games away, with just two goals. That's one goal for every THREE FULL 90 MINS he plays in a Liverpool shirt so far. Was he worth £20m? Never in a month of Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays. He's at an age where he may well be at or past his peak, we'll never see anything like £20m back on him and while you have to pay for quality, we've yet to see much of a return - £10m per goal so far, more misses than goals by plenty.

Is he another Kuyt? No, and even if he was where would he play? Kuyt can tackle, work hard, runs for 90 mins and pops up for late crucial goals. Keane has only shown some of those qualities and not with any great consistency.

The biggest worry for me overall is that fans (on here especially) are willing Keane to do well and that's clouding their judgement over the best interests of the team - a bit like the Kuyt Grande Bashers (KGB) trying to out Kuyt because they either don't like him or don't know much about what he does for the team. We shouldn't be playing Keane until he hits form, Rafa made that mistake with Crouch and finally when he did score, he was still far from prolific. Give him fair chance, but don't bend over backwards to put a struggling striker in the team WILLING him to score, yet knowing that the chances are he won't (7-1 at the moment)

And of course THE miss last night was crucial, although obviously without his goal - offside or otherwise - we'd have been even worse off. Even now people are still 'making excuses' for him and hoping that he 'comes good', how long is 'only a matter of time' and why on earth would or should we grant a £20m striker that? (at the expense of the team's best interests)

Bench on Sunday unless Torres is not available, no two ways about it. Yet I bet that people will say "he scored, we need to keep him in the side to boost his confidence" as was the case last time he scored. He is 28 ffs, if he can't get over selection policies of managers by now then he definitely shouldn't have been signed. Reckoning is he was taken off because of his miss, probably is correct because Rafa tends to make substitutions AT LEAST six minutes AFTER Keane was taken off, quite often around the 60-70 mins mark. That was pretty early for Rafa

With your thoughts/opinions on Crouch, Kuyt and Keane it does seem to me that you like to play Newkit's 'Devil's advocate' on here for much of the time? I find it strange that you frequently used statistics so to make your points about Crouch in the past, then talk about Kuyt's unsung work and his overall value to the team (i don't think i'm the only one who thinks it is out of character for you) and then back to the stats to highlight Keane's performances. I haven't checked but if we decided to look at current/recent form what would Keane's performances look like if we evaluated them since his opening goal a few games back? When the team are playing well, winning games and making a run of it (at least for now) I find it difficult to point too many fingers. i'm not the biggest fan of Dossena and the same could be said for our other full-backs if i'm honest, but at the moment they are part of a wining team. 

As for Keane, he's playing better. I've always liked him and i still do. Of course we are not gonna get back the £20 million we shelled out on him, anyone can see that (surely?)

Bit difficult to give too meaningful statistics for a man playing wide, a striker is on the pitch to score goals and that Kuyt didn't do too much. However playing wide is a different kettle of fish. Crouch as far as I recall never played out wide so that's completely incomparable. Crouch didn't get half as much stick for doing half as much as Kuyt does, maybe I just feel that people lean one way or the other - being too generous to one while criticising another

And of course you drop in the classic line, "how well has X done since he scored his first goal". I've heard that said of Flintoff too, pick their purple patch or discount games they'd rather forget, and make them look better than they actually are. If you exclude my spelling mistakes, my spelling is perfect................... 

[Owzat]

Owzat, why do you hate Keane so much ? You hated Crouch, you hated Barry, now you hate Keane. Can't you be more relaxed about it ?

I don't 'hate' Keane, I just didn't want us to spend £20m on a player who has yet to prove worth even half what we paid for him. But maybe I should just accept the feeble into our fold with open arms, put the interests of nurturing "poor old robbie" ahead of the team. Funnily enough I want Liverpool to win trophies and do well, that means this isn't a 'charity' for the underachieving to pick up Liverpool caps and play cr ap.

I don't 'hate' Barney  either, you must have real comprehension problems if you think I hate someone, having explained many times that he a) isn't worth £18m, b) we don't need ANOTHER CM and c) the money would be better spent on a striker/winger - except it was spent on Keane instead 

Seems to be such a daft mentality of some on here, if you say you don't want a player or criticise them (with justification) then apparently you hate them. Keane was a very good player - for spudz. But like Bellamy, we should never have signed him - and Crouch for that matter. His record FOR OTHER CLUBS has been good for some, not so good for others. BUT we're not 'other clubs', we have higher standards and expectations. Except to come on here you'd think we were little villa or pompey or Blackburn who are just happy to be in the Premiership or aim at Europe.

Find me a post where I say "I hate Keane/Crouch/Barney" or one where I say we should sell Keane. Funnily enough I expect that search would prove as fruitless as your post was pointless

[Owzat]

He's now played near 900 mins for Liverpool, 7 games home and 7 games away, with just two goals. That's one goal for every THREE FULL 90 MINS he plays in a Liverpool shirt so far. Was he worth £20m? Never in a month of Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays. He's at an age where he may well be at or past his peak, we'll never see anything like £20m back on him and while you have to pay for quality, we've yet to see much of a return - £10m per goal so far, more misses than goals by plenty.

Is he another Kuyt? No, and even if he was where would he play? Kuyt can tackle, work hard, runs for 90 mins and pops up for late crucial goals. Keane has only shown some of those qualities and not with any great consistency.

The biggest worry for me overall is that fans (on here especially) are willing Keane to do well and that's clouding their judgement over the best interests of the team - a bit like the Kuyt Grande Bashers (KGB) trying to out Kuyt because they either don't like him or don't know much about what he does for the team. We shouldn't be playing Keane until he hits form, Rafa made that mistake with Crouch and finally when he did score, he was still far from prolific. Give him fair chance, but don't bend over backwards to put a struggling striker in the team WILLING him to score, yet knowing that the chances are he won't (7-1 at the moment)

Very dissapointing post.

Your biggest worry is that the fans that wish that Keane does well have their judgement clouded.

Of course we want him to do well. But if you are to tell anyone here we have the judgement clouded please set an example and be fair with Keane.

How is it objective and a not clouded judgement to pick his price, 20M and make the division of how many goals he have scored when he's in the first months of his contract?

Of course that I respect you if you tell me that with another option we'll defend better our team's interest. But instead of making the divisions and short stats in time that mean nothing, why don't you comment who would you play instead of Keane and why?

Also, if you leave aside his goals, which are a matter of streaks as Torres proved this season, don't you think his work outside the box is better than the likes of Morientes, Voronin, Bellamy or Crouch?

I appreciated Crouch's football for some other reasons, but the other playeres provided less to our game than Keane does IMHO.

If you think the opposite, fair enough Owzat, but explain me why and not with numbers like 20 M divided by 2 goals, it's 10 M per goal. Please.

Ironically I could say your post is disappointing and somewhat hypocritical (of Liverpool fans, not necessarily yourself) when so many used the £20m price tag in their clouded judgement over him being selected or left out.

How exactly is using the fee "clouding judgement" ? To expect a player we paid a lot for to PERFORM - to at least a reasonable level? Of course he is in the early months, but a lot on here want to play him, play him and play him some more until he "comes good". Even if you disregard the fee he's been a disappointment.

We don't have to play two up front, we changed a successful system as used towards the end of last season to accommodate Keane. Who would I play instead? Well it doesn't have to be a striker, we could play Kuyt behind Torres (when fit) with Gerrard or Pennant on the right, at the moment the team is doing well, but that almost certainly won't last and Keane could as easily "come good" if he has to earn his place, rather than be gifted it - whether down to his transfer fee or not.

So maybe it isn't "my biggest worry", but it sure as hell annoys me when I get criticised for using his fee in any comments on the player, yet others continually use it as justification to include him and make him "come good". That's not just "clouded judgement", but DOUBLE STANDARDS

[stmichael]

bound to score against spurs next weekend, especially with half their defence out.

[Toffeehater]

I know they've got bale suspended can't remember who else?

[GYBS]

Dawson as well

[Homebooby]

I have never been keen on Keane, always thought he had limited vision, poor passing and very poor at creating space or helping his strike partner. I have always thought he was a good goalscorer though, and have no doubt that once he starts knocking them in he will get 10-15 goals a season for us.

He was never worth £20million but thats neither his fault or problem. His problem is to start scoring goals and playing to his best level for us.

I am still unsure why he has had such difficulties settling but I am sure he will improve.

I'm not sure he will get 10-15 goals, then again Heskey and Crouch managed to score some goals playing up front so there's no reason he can't.

He's now played near 900 mins for Liverpool, 7 games home and 7 games away, with just two goals. That's one goal for every THREE FULL 90 MINS he plays in a Liverpool shirt so far. Was he worth £20m? Never in a month of Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays AND Sundays. He's at an age where he may well be at or past his peak, we'll never see anything like £20m back on him and while you have to pay for quality, we've yet to see much of a return - £10m per goal so far, more misses than goals by plenty.

Is he another Kuyt? No, and even if he was where would he play? Kuyt can tackle, work hard, runs for 90 mins and pops up for late crucial goals. Keane has only shown some of those qualities and not with any great consistency.

The biggest worry for me overall is that fans (on here especially) are willing Keane to do well and that's clouding their judgement over the best interests of the team - a bit like the Kuyt Grande Bashers (KGB) trying to out Kuyt because they either don't like him or don't know much about what he does for the team. We shouldn't be playing Keane until he hits form, Rafa made that mistake with Crouch and finally when he did score, he was still far from prolific. Give him fair chance, but don't bend over backwards to put a struggling striker in the team WILLING him to score, yet knowing that the chances are he won't (7-1 at the moment)

And of course THE miss last night was crucial, although obviously without his goal - offside or otherwise - we'd have been even worse off. Even now people are still 'making excuses' for him and hoping that he 'comes good', how long is 'only a matter of time' and why on earth would or should we grant a £20m striker that? (at the expense of the team's best interests)

Bench on Sunday unless Torres is not available, no two ways about it. Yet I bet that people will say "he scored, we need to keep him in the side to boost his confidence" as was the case last time he scored. He is 28 ffs, if he can't get over selection policies of managers by now then he definitely shouldn't have been signed. Reckoning is he was taken off because of his miss, probably is correct because Rafa tends to make substitutions AT LEAST six minutes AFTER Keane was taken off, quite often around the 60-70 mins mark. That was pretty early for Rafa

But how many f**in players do we see come to Anfield being asked to play in positions that are different than those in which they were shining at their previous club. We're always so keen to knock these guys.

In reality Robbie hasn't had 2 games in a row to my knowledge, start to finish, in the position which he held at Spurs for years. We all know it takes time and confidence for players like him to start knocking them in.

Personally I think that his presence is the reason for a significant part of the dynamism that we are seeing with the team now. We have threatening width now and there is generally a lot more space and movement up front than I have seen for years. Robbie is always finding good spaces to move into and takes at least 1 defender with him.

For the first time in a long time, when without our number 1 striker, we looked threatening and I personally didn't find myself dreading the game on Wednesday. I have faith in the man, and let's not forget that he scored the goal that got us the point in the first place and took the goal well. He was also in position in the to miss the 2nd golden opportunity. We've been through seasons when we haven't even had that.

Personally I like him, I like the way he commits in the game and I think that he is getting close to an understanding with both Gerrard and Torres, let's not forget that we have 3 big names now who are used to being the centre of everything. I think it will all come good.

If he's given a run until Christmas, I think we'll all be thinking it was a great buy and we'll be welcoming Mr. Owen back on the cheap to fill in as number 3.

Torres, Keane, Owen.....am I the only one that would have been excited by that prospect 2 years ago?

[stmichael]

what was proven the other day is that he's at his most effective when he's played as the furthest striker forward. if he plays he should not be expected to play between the midfield and attack as that doesn't get the best out of him imo. the most suited player for that position that we have is probably benayoun and he's nowhere near being a first team regular.

[Toffeehater]

Oh well they will have king and woodgate at the heart of the defense . Is it a league game or league cup?

[Roger Red Hat]

i think it's a cup game mate which means benitez may field a weakended team and spurs will nick it to record first victory this season and we'll be laughed at again.

[stmichael]

Oh well they will have king and woodgate at the heart of the defense . Is it a league game or league cup?

it's a league game a week on saturday. it's on setanta at 5.30. we then go down there again in the carling cup on the 12th.