Liverpool FC Forum

[JoeTerp]

The spending by Rafa this year has been exaggerated all over the media, the net spend is closer to £25m (you forgot Gonzo!). FFS sometimes Torres cost us £20.2m then the next day £26.5m, it seems there is a concerted effort to make out we are spending on par with Chelsea and Manu, which is not true.

also forgot Leto who was over 2 mil

[GateCrasher]

Of course we need to improve and shouldn't sack Rafa but he can't keep spending money on new players forever without some kind of improvement required. He acquired a top four or five side and we're still only a top four side, what should we expect? He's spent as much as or more than most clubs, net or otherwise, and I am sure the assembled team is the third most expensive in the league. Do we give Rafa until he's outspent the top two before we expect to displace them in the league? Pray tell what return we should expect for £30m? We've done the cups without that £30m spending so what does he need to do? He was brought in to win the league, he's had three seasons to settle in and unless he's on a Houllier (five year plan) then he must have made it clear when we can expect title challenges (since he's yet to mount one)

I've read a bunch of post like this lately on various forums.

Well, I'd say Rafa has done exactly what he said he'd do. In the PL he has pretty much done what has been realistic to expect and in the CL he's done what certainly has been unrealistic to expect.
Also, don't forget we've already catched up with Arsenal by placing them behind us in the final league table last spring. So we're on the right track although the gap to the other two was still huge.

But after he, for the first time, has had the chance to buy players he really wants he's brought in quality players both for now and for the future. Some players that were highly attractive for both ManU and Chelsea.
After this summer's signings Rafa has said that he now has a squad capable of competing for every trophy this season. But he has never stated that this squad is the ultimate contender for the PL title. In fact, he has basically said that this is NOT that year. He's far from done.

I'm sure Rafa will add more players later this year or next. I can easily see players like Pennant, Kewell, Hypia be replaced before next season. And even Crouch and Benayoun if he finds better options.

Some spanish journalist said that Rafa (like all managers I guess) wants to find a foundation of 6-7 high quality players who delivers game in and game out and then being set up for serious title runs every year. I think it's fair to say he hasn't had a fair chance to come anywhere near that goal in his previous years.
So imo, this is the first season we'll be able to really evaluate Rafa. I mean, to evaluate his plan to make LFC a top 5 European side again. That he's a terrific manager he's already proved.

Up until today, I can't think of anyone who could've done a better job than Rafa. So let's stay patient as we don't even know how this season will end. So far, it's looking good and we're undefeated...(with the Chelsea game coming up)

[heimdall]

I may get a lot of stick from this, but seeing that the summer isn't over yet, if someone came in with a bid for crouch for 10 to 15 million, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Something tells me he's going to have a p*ss poor season this year. He was dreadful in pre season and on Wedensday. I just think he turns us into a one dimensional team when he plays. We hit far too many long balls up to him in the hope that he catches on on his head for someone to get on the end of. Also, for his size, his heading is shocking.

Yepp totally agree, surely we could sell him to Newcastle for £20 million, although they seem to be a bit more savvy these days with Big Sam.

I want another winger dammit, why hasn't Rafa brought in Mancini or Quaresmo??

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Under Houiller was no worse than now. Under GH we hit the ball up to Owen and waited to see what happened and now we hit it up to Crouch and hope something will happen. We haven't been a exciting side to watch consistantly since we had Heggem and Bjornebye bombing on the flanks under Evans.

Also it's not Crouch's fault we become one dimension with him in the side, it's the fault of who puts the tactics to do that and that lies with Benitez. If he tells the players to just pick out Crouch then that's what they'll do. So if we want to become less one dimension, the answer isn't drop Crouch but drop the long ball tactics. Also I would be deverstated if we sold Crouch. For me in terms of quality and options he's our best forward.

[Owzat]

Well, I'd say Rafa has done exactly what he said he'd do. In the PL he has pretty much done what has been realistic to expect and in the CL he's done what certainly has been unrealistic to expect.
Also, don't forget we've already catched up with Arsenal by placing them behind us in the final league table last spring. So we're on the right track although the gap to the other two was still huge.

But after he, for the first time, has had the chance to buy players he really wants he's brought in quality players both for now and for the future. Some players that were highly attractive for both ManU and Chelsea.
After this summer's signings Rafa has said that he now has a squad capable of competing for every trophy this season. But he has never stated that this squad is the ultimate contender for the PL title. In fact, he has basically said that this is NOT that year. He's far from done.

I'm sure Rafa will add more players later this year or next. I can easily see players like Pennant, Kewell, Hypia be replaced before next season. And even Crouch and Benayoun if he finds better options.

Some spanish journalist said that Rafa (like all managers I guess) wants to find a foundation of 6-7 high quality players who delivers game in and game out and then being set up for serious title runs every year. I think it's fair to say he hasn't had a fair chance to come anywhere near that goal in his previous years.
So imo, this is the first season we'll be able to really evaluate Rafa. I mean, to evaluate his plan to make LFC a top 5 European side again. That he's a terrific manager he's already proved.

Up until today, I can't think of anyone who could've done a better job than Rafa. So let's stay patient as we don't even know how this season will end. So far, it's looking good and we're undefeated...(with the Chelsea game coming up)

Right ok, so you're saying that because Arsenal's standard dropped and we passed them on their way down that's in some way something we've done! We're supposed to be catching the leaders not passing teams whose standard dropped by default. Arsenal had a poor season, we should be comparing Liverpool to the mancs and chelski not Arsenal who aren't in the same league as us in terms of spending

I don't care what Rafa said or never said, Liverpool want the league. If he's said he will deliver he needs to, if he hasn't then why are we giving someone more money and more time when we made that said same mistake with Houllier. I'm not saying Rafa should go, but he's had plenty of time and spent plenty of money to be a lot closer than he has been. It isn't that he's suddenly got money, he's spent in the past. You're implying he's only just got the money he needs to buy the players he needs, well why waste money in fill-ins instead of buying one or two quality players a season? Houllier delivered cup successes, ok Rafa landed the big one (Champions League) but we didn't bring the manager in for that.

And just for those with short memories or trying to pass off this recent spending spree as some kind of clean slate to what Rafa's gone before, he's spent plenty before this season and not managed to get us even close

Alonso £10.5m
Kuyt £10m
Crouch £7m
Pennant £6.7m
Morientes £6.3m
Luis Garcia £6m
Jose Reina £6m
Bellamy £6m
Agger £5.8m
Sissoko £5.6m
Arbeloa £2.6m
Paletta £2m
Josemi £2m

That's £76.5m from selected transfers, £25.5m per season. He had to raise some cash from sales, he did so this season too as pointed out by Rafa Dodd. Regardless we should not be as far behind the top teams as we have been, STOP MAKING EXCUSES. We stayed patient with Houllier, it was those who gave him more time and more time and more time that delayed his departure until Chelsea got a sugar daddy. Enough of the excuses, it is time for Rafa to deliver a good season and push last season's top two very hard. You can't keep changing the personnel and saying "they need time to settle". Sign the right players in the first place and give them time and you won't need to keep changing them.

[Wilhelmsson]

We're supposed to be catching the leaders not passing teams whose standard dropped by default. Arsenal had a poor season, we should be comparing Liverpool to the mancs and chelski not Arsenal who aren't in the same league as us in terms of spending

I accept your initial point, but I cannot accept your point about Arsenal not being in the same league of spending, any club that has £17m to spend on Reyes has money to spend, whether Arsenal choose to spend or not, is an entirely different matter. Arsenal has money to spend, the reason they are not is because A) Wenger wants to cement his name in Arsenal history and b) Wenger is building for the future.

I don't care what Rafa said or never said, Liverpool want the league. If he's said he will deliver he needs to, if he hasn't then why are we giving someone more money and more time when we made that said same mistake with Houllier.

Rafa does indeed share characterises of Houllier, but that’s as far as the comparison goes in terms of managerial ability. Benitez is clearly more competent than Houllier and another point, why are the two managers constantly compared? Houllier is Houllier and Benitez is Benitez, there’s little need to constantly compare and contrast the two.

I'm not saying Rafa should go, but he's had plenty of time and spent plenty of money to be a lot closer than he has been. It isn't that he's suddenly got money, he's spent in the past.

Rafa has been making steady progress; the team has gone from being the fourth best side in the league and has taken the club up to third, albeit Arsenal’s recent decline has also paved way.

You're implying he's only just got the money he needs to buy the players he needs, well why waste money in fill-ins instead of buying one or two quality players a season?

You’re correct, Benitez has spent in the past, however Chelsea’s emergence as big spenders and United’s spending has not made life easy for Benitez. Benitez’s transfer budget combined was the same amount as United would spend on a player.

I support your point about fill in players too, I had a discussion with a member about this and how I felt it would have been wise to sign one top class player and one accomplished player, rather than the Josemi’s of this world.

Enough of the excuses, it is time for Rafa to deliver a good season and push last season's top two very hard. You can't keep changing the personnel and saying "they need time to settle". Sign the right players in the first place and give them time and you won't need to keep changing them.

I cannot dispute this paragraph and I too support it.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I've said many many times, that Benitez has had constant amounts of money to spend. We haven't been anywhere near challenging in the league and for the first couple of years I tried to make the excuse he doesn't know the english game, well that excuse goes out the window this year. His 4th year, if we aren't even close then we never will be under Benitez. This is the year to really push a title chase all the way, and with me being my usual positive self, I'm putting my neck on the line and saying we'll win the league this year.

[winner_guo71]

I think it's a wonderful sign and the manager has done the perfect business in this summer.

That will make the team younger and the more energetic.

This season will be exciting and the team will be more powerful after the operation

[god_bless_john_houlding]

If playing Riise down the left wing is energetic then I'm jesus.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Ryan Babel – 11.5 Mil
Yossi Benayoun – 5 Mil
Fernando Torres – 21.5 Mil
Lucas Levia – 8 Mil
Sebastian Leto – 1.8 Mil

Total cost of transfers in: £47.8 Mil

Craig Bellamy – 7.5 Mil
Djibril Cisse – 6 Mil
Luis Garcia – 3.5 Mil
Florent Sinama-Pongolle – 2.7 Mil
Mark Gonzalez – 4.2 Mil

Total recouped: £23.9 Mil

Net spend:£23.9 Mil

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Facts and figures are a waste of time. It doesn't matter how much has been spent or how much is brought in, if the players are of the best quality then we will get them.

[The Manhattan Project]

Next season we should buy that Micah Richards when Sven inevitably fails.

[LegBarnes]

Next season we should buy that Micah Richards when Sven inevitably fails.

he wont fail he is a very good club level manager and i think he will finish in top 6 this season mark my words

[The Manhattan Project]

He'll start to stumble once the sex scandals start.

[redtrader74]

Yeah i hear he's met John Terrys mar too....