Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

You realise Ace that what you arguing is pretty much a paradox.

To stop "finishing 6th" and being mediocre you actually need to keep your best players and build a team around them.

That's the only way you will ever escape this loop.

At this moment in time, if we sorted out a defence and center midfield we would be one of the top if not the top team in Europe.

Selling Coutinho for whatever amount, is just f**king stupid. 

Not a paradox at all. My argument is that Coutinho will leave this summer or next summer. The sooner we have a strong spine to the team (GK, CB who is good in the air, dominant CM,25+ goals ST) the better equipped we are for a title challenge. With or without Coutinho this season we wont be challenging. I'd rather we sell him now rather than in a year, improve the starting 11 in key positions, and go for a title push next season. Most big sides and managers rebuild in 2 to 3 years, our issue is that our constant 'rebuilding' never seems to have a plan and that for me is one of the main reasons we are not able to hold on to our best players.

You need to be seen as a side that wins things or is at the cusp of winning things to keep players like Coutinho or Mane.

[Thommo's perm]

Going or what??

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

You realise Ace that what you arguing is pretty much a paradox.

To stop "finishing 6th" and being mediocre you actually need to keep your best players and build a team around them.

That's the only way you will ever escape this loop.

At this moment in time, if we sorted out a defence and center midfield we would be one of the top if not the top team in Europe.

Selling Coutinho for whatever amount, is just f**king stupid. 

Not a paradox at all. My argument is that Coutinho will leave this summer or next summer. The sooner we have a strong spine to the team (GK, CB who is good in the air, dominant CM,25+ goals ST) the better equipped we are for a title challenge. With or without Coutinho this season we wont be challenging. I'd rather we sell him now rather than in a year, improve the starting 11 in key positions, and go for a title push next season. Most big sides and managers rebuild in 2 to 3 years, our issue is that our constant 'rebuilding' never seems to have a plan and that for me is one of the main reasons we are not able to hold on to our best players.

You need to be seen as a side that wins things or is at the cusp of winning things to keep players like Coutinho or Mane.

Eds is right though mate, all you are doing is advocating a permanent state of rebuild. Say we sell Coutinho and buy the players you mention, what happens if one or two of them turn out to be good? Do we then sell those players?  It's never ending.
In other news the likes of the Mail are reporting that Coutinho will be going to the press over the next few days to try and force through the move. According to reports from Spain as well club officials from LFC met their counterparts from Barcelona in Monaco to discuss the Coutinho situation 

[Klopptomaniac]

The offer they've put on the table so far is insulting. IF we let him go (I'm not as closed to the idea as I was) we must sign a central midfielder, a centre half and a creative midfielder. He's the only one we have atm who can drop into the midfield and actually make something happen. Even when we're struggling to get a goal he's the one more likely to make it a 1:0 than anyone else we have. Mane is beast, but Coutinho is a match winner.

[maguskwt]

You realise Ace that what you arguing is pretty much a paradox.

To stop "finishing 6th" and being mediocre you actually need to keep your best players and build a team around them.

That's the only way you will ever escape this loop.

At this moment in time, if we sorted out a defence and center midfield we would be one of the top if not the top team in Europe.

Selling Coutinho for whatever amount, is just f**king stupid. 

Not a paradox at all. My argument is that Coutinho will leave this summer or next summer. The sooner we have a strong spine to the team (GK, CB who is good in the air, dominant CM,25+ goals ST) the better equipped we are for a title challenge. With or without Coutinho this season we wont be challenging. I'd rather we sell him now rather than in a year, improve the starting 11 in key positions, and go for a title push next season. Most big sides and managers rebuild in 2 to 3 years, our issue is that our constant 'rebuilding' never seems to have a plan and that for me is one of the main reasons we are not able to hold on to our best players.

You need to be seen as a side that wins things or is at the cusp of winning things to keep players like Coutinho or Mane.

Eds is right though mate, all you are doing is advocating a permanent state of rebuild. Say we sell Coutinho and buy the players you mention, what happens if one or two of them turn out to be good? Do we then sell those players?  It's never ending.
In other news the likes of the Mail are reporting that Coutinho will be going to the press over the next few days to try and force through the move. According to reports from Spain as well club officials from LFC met their counterparts from Barcelona in Monaco to discuss the Coutinho situation 

Blame for Coutinho wanting to leave, and in general us losing our best players, must go to the owners and all who are involved in player procurement. The club needs to show ambition and decisiveness in the transfer market. Our performance in the transfer markets have been lack lustre. We are quick at buying players who are relatively affordable in today's market. This summer Salah, Solanke and Robertson were all transfers which didn't break the bank. And yet we struggle to reinforce our weakest positions. We targeted VVD and Keita who costs a bomb and who could strengthen our weak positions and yet the ppl in charge couldn't get it done. When we failed to get them, we don't have any alternatives. It is really poor poor performance. When someone like Coutinho wants to leave, can Klopp or the Owner honestly say that "lad, don't leave, we are trying to win the league and trophies. Look we have brought in who and who to show our intent that we mean business." Can they say that to any player who wants to leave? They can't. And that is the main reason we keep losing our best players. Because we as a club does not show enough ambition and hope to strike the lottery and get players like Coutinho who could be sold on for 10s of millions profit.

[parchpea]

Still think he will be sold and all this drama in media is a charade to grease the wheels of sale.

[Doeboy]

If we stick to our guns, it will blow over once the window ends and Coutinho will be fine. The problem is, Phil knows Barca may well not be back in for him next summer as Phil is good but he is not, for example Suarez good and he's probably thinking he may well not get this chance again.

[parchpea]

If we dont sell and I am wrong it can only be because FSG do not want to buy in this market not because of any principle.

They have sold before without any problems but are that tight the current market scares the sh@t out of them, not got the stomach or ambition to buy at these prices.

[aCe']

You realise Ace that what you arguing is pretty much a paradox.

To stop "finishing 6th" and being mediocre you actually need to keep your best players and build a team around them.

That's the only way you will ever escape this loop.

At this moment in time, if we sorted out a defence and center midfield we would be one of the top if not the top team in Europe.

Selling Coutinho for whatever amount, is just f**king stupid. 

Not a paradox at all. My argument is that Coutinho will leave this summer or next summer. The sooner we have a strong spine to the team (GK, CB who is good in the air, dominant CM,25+ goals ST) the better equipped we are for a title challenge. With or without Coutinho this season we wont be challenging. I'd rather we sell him now rather than in a year, improve the starting 11 in key positions, and go for a title push next season. Most big sides and managers rebuild in 2 to 3 years, our issue is that our constant 'rebuilding' never seems to have a plan and that for me is one of the main reasons we are not able to hold on to our best players.

You need to be seen as a side that wins things or is at the cusp of winning things to keep players like Coutinho or Mane.

Eds is right though mate, all you are doing is advocating a permanent state of rebuild. Say we sell Coutinho and buy the players you mention, what happens if one or two of them turn out to be good? Do we then sell those players?  It's never ending.
In other news the likes of the Mail are reporting that Coutinho will be going to the press over the next few days to try and force through the move. According to reports from Spain as well club officials from LFC met their counterparts from Barcelona in Monaco to discuss the Coutinho situation 

We'll continue to lose our best players the same way Southampton and co lose their best players though mate. We're not at that elite level that us fans seem to think we're at. If Coutinho wants to leave, he has every right to as a player with ambition. We wont keep him past this seasoneither way. Same with Mane, Lallana, and whoever else gets targeted by one of the top clubs.

- Until we start challenging for things we wont be able to convince good players to stay
- We wont challenge for things until we address glaring gaps in the squad

Losing Coutinho will set us back, yes. That said, it doesnt change the fact we arent title contenders now and we dont match the ambition of top players. 130-140 mill is A LOT of money by any market standards. If reports of us having another 100-150mill to spend in addition to that are to be believed then we're potentially sitting on 250-300 mill to spend on players. The reason I wanted Ancelotti ahead of Klopp before we brought the German in was precisely this. Ancelotti and Mourinho come in, buy the best available talent, and build title winning sides within 2 years. Klopp imo is more a coach than a manager; concerned with getting the best out of what he has rather than building a side capable of winning anything. If approach leads to the building of a strong enough side then great, if not, he's content with knowing he's doing the best with what he has.

Mignolet, Henderson, Moreno, etc. wouldnt last 2 windows with managers who are serious about winning the league. Coutinho knows that and so does every fan.

[Doeboy]

Agree with ace. As hard as it is to admit, we have fallen down the food chain. Even though getting into the CL was great, it does show how far we have fallen.1 trophy in the last 5 years, 3 trophies in the last 12 years and not won the league in 27 years. At some stage the very best players in our team will come to a point where they will naturally have their heads turned by clubs who give them a better chance at competing for honours. Suarez has gone to Barca and picked up winners medals. I can't blame Coutinho wanting  to do that as well and no doubt he has a better chance of doing it at Barca as things stand today.

However the way it has been done is the problem. Barca were totally unprepared for losing Neymar and now think they can just rock up and take one of our important players off us. Just doesn't work like that. If Barca had come calling earlier in the window, I think we may have dealt if the price was right. But as it stands, we would be left scrambling around for players with selling clubs knowing full well we have lots of money and are desperate so that really is no good to us

[Thommo's perm]

Agree with ace. As hard as it is to admit, we have fallen down the food chain. Even though getting into the CL was great, it does show how far we have fallen.1 trophy in the last 5 years, 3 trophies in the last 12 years and not won the league in 27 years. At some stage the very best players in our team will come to a point where they will naturally have their heads turned by clubs who give them a better chance at competing for honours. Suarez has gone to Barca and picked up winners medals. I can't blame Coutinho wanting  to do that as well and no doubt he has a better chance of doing it at Barca as things stand today.

However the way it has been done is the problem. Barca were totally unprepared for losing Neymar and now think they can just rock up and take one of our important players off us. Just doesn't work like that. If Barca had come calling earlier in the window, I think we may have dealt if the price was right. But as it stands, we would be left scrambling around for players with selling clubs knowing full well we have lots of money and are desperate so that really is no good to us

Well said

[Thommo's perm]

This is the cake:
"Losing Coutinho will set us back, yes. That said, it doesnt change the fact we arent title contenders now and we dont match the ambition of top players. 130-140 mill is A LOT of money by any market standards. If reports of us having another 100-150mill to spend in addition to that are to be believed then we're potentially sitting on 250-300 mill to spend on players. The reason I wanted Ancelotti ahead of Klopp before we brought the German in was precisely this. Ancelotti and Mourinho come in, buy the best available talent, and build title winning sides within 2 years. Klopp imo is more a coach than a manager; concerned with getting the best out of what he has rather than building a side capable of winning anything. If approach leads to the building of a strong enough side then great, if not, he's content with knowing he's doing the best with what he has.

This is the cherry on top:
"Mignolet, Henderson, Moreno, etc. wouldnt last 2 windows with managers who are serious about winning the league. Coutinho knows that and so does every fan."

[johnbarnes]

This is the cake:
"Losing Coutinho will set us back, yes. That said, it doesnt change the fact we arent title contenders now and we dont match the ambition of top players. 130-140 mill is A LOT of money by any market standards. If reports of us having another 100-150mill to spend in addition to that are to be believed then we're potentially sitting on 250-300 mill to spend on players. The reason I wanted Ancelotti ahead of Klopp before we brought the German in was precisely this. Ancelotti and Mourinho come in, buy the best available talent, and build title winning sides within 2 years. Klopp imo is more a coach than a manager; concerned with getting the best out of what he has rather than building a side capable of winning anything. If approach leads to the building of a strong enough side then great, if not, he's content with knowing he's doing the best with what he has.

This is the cherry on top:
"Mignolet, Henderson, Moreno, etc. wouldnt last 2 windows with managers who are serious about winning the league. Coutinho knows that and so does every fan."

So what can be done Thommo?
The fans are fanatic and supporters show their support!
If the owners' only concern is to net all profits and turn us into a global financial magnet; what can we seriously do?
---
FSG are showing how stubborn they can be when it comes to financial situations that they control - The cun.tinho situation shows this clearly...
---
IMO; the only way for us fans to see a change of personnel and ambition on the pitch it too display our dismay at the way the club is being run:
- On the terraces
- Through commercially driven projects
- Hit all aspects of revenue by NOT SPENDING
---
In my experience the only way to get the attentions of rich, money orientated individuals is to hit them fanatically.
It's the only thing they listen too.
---
SO WHAT'S NEXT?

[Thommo's perm]

Im not really ar'sed if he goes, in fact I'd be more gutted if Firmino was leaving to be honest.
I'm more interested in the overall look of the squad, particularly our glaring problems in defense. As Ace says, Klopp is more interested in getting the best out of who hes got, so the Coutinho money wouldnt be spent anyway? When the likes of Moreno is still pulling on a red shirt, and Henderson is still our captain, the selling of Coutinho is the least of our problems.
If we want to win the Premier League that is....

[Kopite-Jud]

F#ck him

I don't care how good he is, if he doesn't want to be here, get rid.

IMO he's been sold, all of a sudden there's money flying about (no coincidence).  I think the owners stance was he stays, but he's clearly refused to train / play or  the manager gave him time off because his head isn't right...

One thing is clear for me, no player is bigger than the club, and i don't want anyone who doesn't want to play for us