Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Yakka sorry I don't agree. Everybody has a price and if Barcelona want to use £138m of the Neymar money to buy Coutinho in the same way as we did with Carroll when we sold Torres then we are the winners financially. To be frank Coutinho is not in the same class as Neymar. If we sell Coutinho I wouldn't see £138m as caving in. I would see it as some very gutsy negotiating. Let's face it the way Coutinho is behaving hasn't actually done us any favours in terms of credibility. Bad back my ar.se !!!

Gutsy negotiating? Sorry mate but I wouldn't call caving in to Barca's questionable tactics gutsy negotiating.
Say for arguments sake though that we take their stinking money and go out and buy someone who turns out to be great player, do we then sell him when the money clubs come calling again? (as they inevitably will as they know we are a selling club). This idea of continually selling our best players will only lead to one place - a never ending state of rebuild. How can you put together a title winning side if you continually break it up before it's won anything?
In 2014 we sold Suarez, in 2015 we sold Sterling, if we add in 2017 we sold Coutinho to that list then as far as I'm concerned this club is finished.
Seriously mate if selling your best players is the best way to the top how come Chelsea aren't trying to actively flog Hazard or City De Bruyne? How come Barcelona are so pi[ss]ed off about losing Neymar? How come even though they got £200m they tried everything within their powers to block the deal? They even got the Spanish FA's lawyers to scrutinise the small print to see if there was anyway they could stop it from their end on technical grounds (i.e the deal is damaging to La Liga's image or Spain's economy or something)
The top clubs know mate that if you genuinely want to win things you keep your best players, it's as simple as that.
LFC has a decision to make, do we exist purely to make money or do we actually want to win trophies too? Over to you FSG.

[maguskwt]

Yakka sorry I don't agree. Everybody has a price and if Barcelona want to use £138m of the Neymar money to buy Coutinho in the same way as we did with Carroll when we sold Torres then we are the winners financially. To be frank Coutinho is not in the same class as Neymar. If we sell Coutinho I wouldn't see £138m as caving in. I would see it as some very gutsy negotiating. Let's face it the way Coutinho is behaving hasn't actually done us any favours in terms of credibility. Bad back my ar.se !!!

Gutsy negotiating? Sorry mate but I wouldn't call caving in to Barca's questionable tactics gutsy negotiating.
Say for arguments sake though that we take their stinking money and go out and buy someone who turns out to be great player, do we then sell him when the money clubs come calling again? (as they inevitably will as they know we are a selling club). This idea of continually selling our best players will only lead to one place - a never ending state of rebuild. How can you put together a title winning side if you continually break it up before it's won anything?
In 2014 we sold Suarez, in 2015 we sold Sterling, if we add in 2017 we sold Coutinho to that list then as far as I'm concerned this club is finished.
Seriously mate if selling your best players is the best way to the top how come Chelsea aren't trying to actively flog Hazard or City De Bruyne? How come Barcelona are so pi[ss]ed off about losing Neymar? How come even though they got £200m they tried everything within their powers to block the deal? They even got the Spanish FA's lawyers to scrutinise the small print to see if there was anyway they could stop it from their end on technical grounds (i.e the deal is damaging to La Liga's image or Spain's economy or something)
The top clubs know mate that if you genuinely want to win things you keep your best players, it's as simple as that.
LFC has a decision to make, do we exist purely to make money or do we actually want to win trophies too? Over to you FSG.

We are a higher class version of Southampton if we sold Coutinho to Barca...

[devaney]

Yakka the fundamental problem that I have is that Coutinho is not worth anything like £138m. Carroll wasn't worth £35m when we bought him. Torres as Chelsea discovered wasn't worth £50m when we sold him. Like it or not it is a commercial world and money will talk. Most clubs wouldn't have hesitated to take £114m for Coutinho let alone £138m. Selling Suarez given the lads highly dubious behaviour was understandable. Selling Sterling for a guaranteed £35m and buying Firmino for £29m was good business. Selling Coutinho for £138m and buying drawler for less than £40m in my opinion wouldn't be a disaster.

We agree to differ mate.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Yakka the fundamental problem that I have is that Coutinho is not worth anything like £138m. Carroll wasn't worth £35m when we bought him. Torres as Chelsea discovered wasn't worth £50m when we sold him. Like it or not it is a commercial world and money will talk. Most clubs wouldn't have hesitated to take £114m for Coutinho let alone £138m. Selling Suarez given the lads highly dubious behaviour was understandable. Selling Sterling for a guaranteed £35m and buying Firmino for £29m was good business. Selling Coutinho for £138m and buying drawler for less than £40m in my opinion wouldn't be a disaster.

We agree to differ mate.

We certainly do agree to differ mate, they day I want this club to sell its best players is the day I stop caring about it. As Bill Shankly said this club exists to win trophies, if we sell Coutinho then this club will have effectively sold its soul because no club wins trophies by cashing in on their best players. If cashing in on your best players was truly the route to success then Southampton would have an honours board and a trophy room like ours now.

[red till i die!!]

I think its wrong if we are intentionally removing players from the squad because of their contract situations. There is no timeframe for his return either because now is the talk of him not being fit and will have to wait till he is. The chances are he will be out till after the international break.
They have always insisted he isn't for sale so make him line up for the team or sue him for breach of his contract. There isn't a court in the land of anywhere that will side with the player in this situation. Sooner or later some club is going to have to do it to reign in this carry on rather than continuing to allow players to walk all over them.

[aCe']

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

[maguskwt]

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

We have money to sign players, but we are not signing. What makes you think we will sign more players with Coutinho's money?

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

Why is everyone assuming he will leave next year? He is under contract for 5 years and there is no buy out clause, we are in an incredibly strong position. If we don't want him to go, he doesn't go, it's as simple as that.
All this talk about unhappy players going on strike is rubbish, can anyone name me one high profile player that went on strike for years? You won't get football players going on strike because they'd lose too much money.

[johnbarnes]

IF - the owners decide to keep him during this transfer window, then it makes sense for two reasons:
1. It is a World Cup year
2. IF Cun.tinho plays a blinder during next years World Cup (and this years CL), then forget 138M on offer at the moment -
He'll more than likely shatter the current world transfer record and be worth around 210M...
Whether it's Farcelona or any other (oil drilling) club willing to cough up that amount.
---
Sure he could get injured and be forced to retire at an early age, as this is the case for any pro athlete.
But let's not forget - He cost 8M - an investment that has already seen huge financial returned.
Cun.tinho is the only living proof of FSG's so called strategic 'youth development' plan...
---
I'd like to think this is what our owners are being advised on.
Next years World Cup is a factor too important to ignore.

[only me]

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

Why is everyone assuming he will leave next year? He is under contract for 5 years and there is no buy out clause, we are in an incredibly strong position. If we don't want him to go, he doesn't go, it's as simple as that.
All this talk about unhappy players going on strike is rubbish, can anyone name me one high profile player that went on strike for years? You won't get football players going on strike because they'd lose too much money.

I think what we are saying that if he so set on leaving then he is free to leave on OUR terms ,meaning next year when we had enough time to come up with suitable replacements.

[kazza]

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

Why is everyone assuming he will leave next year? He is under contract for 5 years and there is no buy out clause, we are in an incredibly strong position. If we don't want him to go, he doesn't go, it's as simple as that.
All this talk about unhappy players going on strike is rubbish, can anyone name me one high profile player that went on strike for years? You won't get football players going on strike because they'd lose too much money.

De Gea for all the world looked like he would go to Madrid for the past three years but he is still at ManUre  and he is Spanish and dreamed to play in Madrid and his girlfriend wants to live in Madrid blah blah...so you never know.

[aCe']

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

We have money to sign players, but we are not signing. What makes you think we will sign more players with Coutinho's money?

Because we would have our backs against the wall and the owners/manager wouldnt want to go into a season with a squad weaker than what we had last summer ?

[aCe']

None of us want to lose him, but if he doesnt leave this summer he'll leave next summer. Is he worth 138 mill ? not in 138 mill years. We cant sign a better player regardless of what we get for him but if it came down to losing him this summer or next summer I'd want him out now. I dont think we should force players to stay at the club if they dont want to. We could ask for a year if we had title ambitions but it doesnt seem like we do, might as well take the money and go out and sign 4 top players to add some balance to the side.

Why is everyone assuming he will leave next year? He is under contract for 5 years and there is no buy out clause, we are in an incredibly strong position. If we don't want him to go, he doesn't go, it's as simple as that.
All this talk about unhappy players going on strike is rubbish, can anyone name me one high profile player that went on strike for years? You won't get football players going on strike because they'd lose too much money.

Why would we keep a player who wants to move at the club for more than a year ? I am not sure we'll ever get that amount for him (World Cup year or not) and what kind of message would keeping him against his will send to other young players thinking about signing for a club ? Whether we like it or not, 99% of proeffesional footballers want to play for the clubs that win trophies and provide them with the platform to win individual awards. If the big clubs come after players from Liverpool, Arsenal, and anything below that in our league, Atletico and anything lower in Spain, anything below Bayern in Germany, any club in Italy, and any other club in world football, you can rest assured that the players would want to move to win trophies, get paid more, and play in that bigger stage.

I do agree with the jist of what you are saying, we shouldnt be selling our best players and all that. But more often than not, its a two way thing. If we want to keep the top players then we need to match their ambition and become more competitive. If we had signed Lukaku, Pogba, Matic, Mkhitaryan, Ibrahimovic in the past 2 seasons we'd have a good enough reason to tell Coutinho he's going nowhere because we need him to challenge for the title. As it stands, the best we can probably promise him is a challenge for a top6 spot.

[eds]

You realise Ace that what you arguing is pretty much a paradox.

To stop "finishing 6th" and being mediocre you actually need to keep your best players and build a team around them.

That's the only way you will ever escape this loop.

At this moment in time, if we sorted out a defence and center midfield we would be one of the top if not the top team in Europe.

Selling Coutinho for whatever amount, is just f**king stupid. 

[maguskwt]

You realise Ace that what you arguing is pretty much a paradox.

To stop "finishing 6th" and being mediocre you actually need to keep your best players and build a team around them.

That's the only way you will ever escape this loop.

At this moment in time, if we sorted out a defence and center midfield we would be one of the top if not the top team in Europe.

Selling Coutinho for whatever amount, is just f**king stupid. 

My beef is, how many seasons have we been saying this?