Liverpool FC Forum

[kazza]

We are most certainly missing the Harry Kewell that played for us in the second half of last season.  That Harry Kewell provided our midfield with great balance, creativity and he chipped in with some important goals. 

The fact that no one player has made LM their own in his absence speaks volumes.  When Rafa resorts to starting Stevie wide left to make space for Pennant rather than starting him wide right and opting for one of our several options at LM it's time to ask what Kewell offered that made him such an automatic choice when fit last season (and that we're not getting from our current options out there). 

I'm not saying Kewell's the answer to all of our current problems but the fact that a fit Kewell would walk into our team at the moment, tells its own story, IMO.

I am not sure I agree. Even last year (and only after Australia qualified for the World Cup) when he was playing well was still a shadow of his days at Leeds. He played well but by no means carried the team. In the second half of the season everyone played well (all excited about the WC no doubt). I do not agree that it was due to a fit Harry Kewell. He is a good player but as I keep saying his heart is not in it.

On why no one has made LM their own may well have something to do with wanting Gerrard, Alonso and Momo all playing together. Only leaves one midfielder if we play a 4 4 2. That is where squad rotation comes in. If kewell was fit now, I am not sure he would be playing every game. Are you?

Now hold on!  I'm not for one moment suggesting Kewell "carried the team"--I merely said that he provided the midfield with good balance.  He was an important part of our success from Christmas onwards last campaign but, as you correctly say, he was one cog of a larger, well-oiled machine.  But that in itself suggests that his role was important and that's something we've missed this season.

As far as rotating this season to add one to the Momo-Xabi-Stevie trio in midfield, I would still suggest that Harry would largely walk into that midfield opening at the moment.  What our team is lacking is a viable LM counterweight to Gerard on the right and the Momo-Xabi duo in the middle.  Garcia has played some brilliant attacking football from LM but he leaves the LB far too exposed.  Aurelio at LM looks exactly like his--a LB asked to do a job at LM.  Stevie's a class player no matter where he starts but he's never a LM.  Gonzales, for whatever reason, has barely had a look-in.  That tells me that we're missing Kewell, since none of these very talented players--throw Riise into that mix as well--has had a run of games in this position.

Finally, on the matter of heart, I just want to say that I do not share your jaded view of Kewell.  I don't think he turned it on just as preparation for the World Cup.  I don't think he only has eyes for the wage packet.  I don't think he bottles things and exaggerates injuries to put his feet up.  I DO think he is a player that's had a series of long-standing, nagging injuries that have eroded both his skill and confidence as a player.  What I saw last winter, though, was a lad hungry to prove himself on the football pitch--one who, by and large delivered the goods.  And if that lad ever gets himself fit and returns to the fold, I, for one, will welcome his return--not as a saviour, but simply as an important cog in the Liverpool machine.

I appreciate your point but do not agree. I unfortunately have become cynical where Kewell is concerned. I would love a fantastic Kewell to help us win the title but do not think it will happen. I think he does not offer enough on a consistant ( key word "consistant") basis  anymore be it through injury or any other reason. I would rather invest in the future and give others a run.

I do like Aurellio as I think he has good technical skills and once he and Gonzalez have come to terms with the pace of the game and the physical nature of English football I think we will be singing " Harry, Harry who".

Harry has never played for us like he did when he was at Leeds but when people talk about him they rate him as he was then. If we judge him on his games for us we will find that we paid him a lot of money and he has not given us the Kewell we wanted once again through injury or whatever.

To answer the thread "Are we missing Harry?" My answer is we miss the player that played for Leeds but not the player that played for Liverpool.

We will see I guess.

[66-1112520797]

forest of cynicism.

Is it really any wonder where this forest has grown from ?

[kazza]

forest of cynicism.

Is it really any wonder where this forest has grown from ?

A forest does not show up over night and once established is not easily removed.

[Bad Bob]

We are most certainly missing the Harry Kewell that played for us in the second half of last season.  That Harry Kewell provided our midfield with great balance, creativity and he chipped in with some important goals. 

The fact that no one player has made LM their own in his absence speaks volumes.  When Rafa resorts to starting Stevie wide left to make space for Pennant rather than starting him wide right and opting for one of our several options at LM it's time to ask what Kewell offered that made him such an automatic choice when fit last season (and that we're not getting from our current options out there). 

I'm not saying Kewell's the answer to all of our current problems but the fact that a fit Kewell would walk into our team at the moment, tells its own story, IMO.

I am not sure I agree. Even last year (and only after Australia qualified for the World Cup) when he was playing well was still a shadow of his days at Leeds. He played well but by no means carried the team. In the second half of the season everyone played well (all excited about the WC no doubt). I do not agree that it was due to a fit Harry Kewell. He is a good player but as I keep saying his heart is not in it.

On why no one has made LM their own may well have something to do with wanting Gerrard, Alonso and Momo all playing together. Only leaves one midfielder if we play a 4 4 2. That is where squad rotation comes in. If kewell was fit now, I am not sure he would be playing every game. Are you?

Now hold on!  I'm not for one moment suggesting Kewell "carried the team"--I merely said that he provided the midfield with good balance.  He was an important part of our success from Christmas onwards last campaign but, as you correctly say, he was one cog of a larger, well-oiled machine.  But that in itself suggests that his role was important and that's something we've missed this season.

As far as rotating this season to add one to the Momo-Xabi-Stevie trio in midfield, I would still suggest that Harry would largely walk into that midfield opening at the moment.  What our team is lacking is a viable LM counterweight to Gerard on the right and the Momo-Xabi duo in the middle.  Garcia has played some brilliant attacking football from LM but he leaves the LB far too exposed.  Aurelio at LM looks exactly like his--a LB asked to do a job at LM.  Stevie's a class player no matter where he starts but he's never a LM.  Gonzales, for whatever reason, has barely had a look-in.  That tells me that we're missing Kewell, since none of these very talented players--throw Riise into that mix as well--has had a run of games in this position.

Finally, on the matter of heart, I just want to say that I do not share your jaded view of Kewell.  I don't think he turned it on just as preparation for the World Cup.  I don't think he only has eyes for the wage packet.  I don't think he bottles things and exaggerates injuries to put his feet up.  I DO think he is a player that's had a series of long-standing, nagging injuries that have eroded both his skill and confidence as a player.  What I saw last winter, though, was a lad hungry to prove himself on the football pitch--one who, by and large delivered the goods.  And if that lad ever gets himself fit and returns to the fold, I, for one, will welcome his return--not as a saviour, but simply as an important cog in the Liverpool machine.

I appreciate your point but do not agree. I unfortunately have become cynical where Kewell is concerned. I would love a fantastic Kewell to help us win the title but do not think it will happen. I think he does not offer enough on a consistant ( key word "consistant") basis  anymore be it through injury or any other reason. I would rather invest in the future and give others a run.

I do like Aurellio as I think he has good technical skills and once he and Gonzalez have come to terms with the pace of the game and the physical nature of English football I think we will be singing " Harry, Harry who".

Harry has never played for us like he did when he was at Leeds but when people talk about him they rate him as he was then. If we judge him on his games for us we will find that we paid him a lot of money and he has not given us the Kewell we wanted once again through injury or whatever.

To answer the thread "Are we missing Harry?" My answer is we miss the player that played for Leeds but not the player that played for Liverpool.

We will see I guess.

Fair enough, mate, we're all entitled to our opinions...cynicism is just not my thing.  FWIW, I agree that we have never seen the Leeds-vintage Harry Kewell in a red shirt.  At this moment in time, though (that is, until other LM candidates step up and make the position their own) we are missing the Harry Kewell of last season, even if that Harry Kewell is not the same footballing force that played for Leeds.

[Rafa D]

NO we don't need Harry Kewell! Gonzalez will do the job for us.

For people on this forum to be making judgments on both Gonz and Aurelio after a few games and going so far to say that they are failures is downright stupid.

From what I have heard, Rafa has admitted that Gonz has not been 100% this season with an illness (not sure what it is). That's why he has appeared in a handful of games and still not been at his best. Hence why you have Gerrard covering left midfield, not because he isn't good enough.

If anyone actually saw him play in Spain, rather than claim to say that they did, you would actually see that we do have quite a talented winger. He single-handly saved Soceidad from relegation and in one game tore the "Royal Madridistas" to shreds.

The question is not about his skill level, but whether he can adapt to the English game. We saw that Nando was a failure here, but now he is smacking them in for fun at Valencia. In all honesty I think Gonzalez is better all round player, than Morientes ever was, and for this fact alone he will be awesome in a few months time. The fickle "supporters" already forget that if it wasn't for his game winning goal against the Jews we might be in the UEFA Cup.

And now people are pinning their hopes on player who will mostly likely spend more time in a doctor's chair, than out on a footy field. Makes you wonder doesn't it.



BTW I live in Australia so you can shut your trap about me being a Kewell hater.

So what are you basing your argument on then eds?

You say we don't need Kewell because Gonzo will do the job for us, well has he? As my post pointed out, he isn't. The midfield is looking a lot more unstable than it was last year and Harry was a major part of that midfield for over 27 games. Harry is better at tracking back than Gonzo - Fact. Harry is a better passer than Gonzo - Fact. Harry has mor ePrem experience - Fact. Harry does a better job than gonzo at LM - Fact.

  Where did I ever say Gonzo and Aurelio are failures?!? I said they have not really impressed - and they haven't and I said they have been average - also a fair assumption. Gonzo has not been 100% you say? Well neither was Kewell for a season but I bet that didn't stop most Liverpool fans slating him did it?

  Gonzo weren't fit for 1 game and did not make the bench. Wheres your source for this quote?

I did claim I have seen Gonzo because I did. I watched Real Sociedad whenever they were on Sky Sports not much, but I seen enough to make my assumption he aint a world class LM and is not as good as Harry Kewell. I hope he does, but so far he has not proved me wrong.

He single handedly saved Real Sociedad from relegation? What so he played on his own!
  He only played 16 games for Sociedad out of 38, how did he saved them from relegation. His 5 goals were important to them but what about the 9 goals Xabi Prieto scored? I was much more impressed with his overall game play than Mark's.

Oh and the game that he tore Real Madrid to " shreds" with a tap in and it ended 1 - 1?!?

If your going to go on about individual games then Harry rules the roost with individual games, against us and Utd where he dominated the games.

  You dismiss Morientes and say Gonzo is a better overall player than Morientes. Well firstly they play different positions. But your argument is full of , Morientes has been absolutely brilliant through out his career. He is a living legend in Spain, ask Sabre and was probably one of the best goalscorers ever to come out of Spain.

  You my friend need to think before you post, as you are the one who looks " downright stupid".

Reguards

Rafa Dodd 

You obviously let passion get in the way of any decent argument you have to make.

So Gonz isn't doing the job for us because he hasn't impressed you in the handful of games he has played. Listen to yourself son, you sound practically idiotic. How the hell can you compare 'arry, who has played his entire career in the EPL to another player who just arrived in England over 2 months ago? It doesn't MAKE ANY SENSE!

I will use another example seeing as you lack the intelligence to understand what the hell I am talking about. How good was Xabi Alonso when he first came to England? Was he setting the premiership on fire in his first few months.............

ummmmm no!

Was it right, back then to compare Alonso to another central midfielder let's say ummmmm Gerrard? FFS NO! And thats exactly what you are doing with Kewell and Gonzalez. Comparing apples and bananas and then saying Kewell is a better player. You are so sure it is a FACT!

So you ask when did you ever say Gonz and Aurelio were failures? When the hell did I ever say YOU said that they were, I quite clearly said "on this forum" NOT you!

So Gonzalez only scored a handful of goals, but let's not forget where the hell he was playing, 5 goals and a few assists in 12 games for a left midfielder, um I would say that's pretty freakn impressive from someone that has come back from long term injury! And thats what I meant by saving Soceidad from relagation, goals mean points, points mean survival. No one can argue against that. Sure I slipped in the "single-handly" in there, but you will get use to my exaggerated writting style in time. If you actually saw his "tap in" against Madrid, then you obviously would have seen him play the whole game. If you saw him play the whole game, you would have seen him tear it up down the left flank throughout the entire game. But I have a funny feeling you didn't and only saw the goal from your pointless remark. Unlike you I have seen him play at Albacete, Soceidad and for 'la roja'. And am not basing my opinions on a few clips from YouTube and the handful of minutes he has had at Liverpool this season.

And now we move onto Morientes, you make it sound like I slate him for who he is. Let me say that I was excited as anyone when he arrived at Liverpool. Who wouldn't be, we had just captured the leading scorer in the CL when he was at Monaco. Yet he failed! The goals dried up and he could not adopt his style to the British game. LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN. He couldn't adopt his style to the British game. Yet Alonso has, to a certain degree Luis Garcia has and I am sure as hell that Gonzalez will as well. This in my eyes makes Alonso, Luis Garcia and [hopefully time will tell] Gonzalez  BETTER OVERALL PLAYERS. Argue all you want about goals scored, hero status etc, etc. Nando failed in England and that really shows what a player is made of if he can't cut it in another league.

And finally Harry Kewell. Kewell is loved in Australia by the media and the Aussie "establishment". Although football is not the most popular sport over here everyone still loves Harry, including me. Yes the man is a legend, but without the injuries he has had, he has been only a shadow of himself in the last few years. From the recent interviews he has conducted on local TV it looks like it will only get worse, because he can't even put a timeline on when he will be back! If you basing your hopes on this and not actually giving Gonzalez a go [and also unfairly slating him] then truly the point is not worth arguing with you.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree mate.

The fact is my post IS valid. We are missing Harry. I am not saying Mark is not going to be a good player for us, I said he has not impressed, a fair assumption, yes?

I did not state he will be a " downright failure", as you put it, I said he has not performed and I am correct. Harry would walk into our team at the moment if he was fit and thats why we are missing him. I am not making Harry out to be a world beater, but the fact that Rafa has had to move Gerrard over to left wing speaks volumes about the impact Mark has made. You say I am "idiotic" for comparing Mark and Harry. WTF?!?

   I did not compare, I said we are missing Harry and Gonzo has not impressed, did I not?

For you "example" of Xabi Alonso, thats laughable mate. Firstly, I go to the games every week and from the first time we seen Xabi we knew he was quality. He won plaudits straight away from pundits and fans alike over here mate. His passing was exceptional and everyone knew we had bought quality. Xabi didn't go missing and was quickly identified in the English press. Your clutching at straws with this mate.

I want Mark Gonzalez to suceed, I do.

  I am not unfairly slating him, Mark has not impressed, most people will agree and most people will agree that Harry would walk into the team at present. Do you agree?


  BTW  - You say that "Nando failed in England and that shows what a player is made of if he can't cut it in another league" -  What's your feelings on Mr Rush then!?!?

  And please don't call me " son" its patronising, even more so when its from someone unable to  entertain someone elses view without getting on there high horse, because they watch X amount of leagues blah, blah, blah.

I go the game, and base my assumptions are what I see, shame the same cannot be said for you.

[clik]

Gonzo hasnt played enough but if he is match fit i would play him week in week out he can only get better with games but i can see kewell getting his chance but maybe this is one injury to many for him and with spurs sniffing around i cant see him being a ared next season, however on last seasons form id say we miss him terribly

[66-1112520797]

Fair enough, mate, we're all entitled to our opinions...cynicism is just not my thing.

Its quite possible we could do with Kewell out wide left at the mo, the kind of form he was in towards the the end of last season, just before the WC ya know.
But I cannot soley dress up Harry Kewell in the light that he's so badly needed, when hes hardly ever played. Like someone else said how can you miss something you've never really had... Blind Optimism is just not my thing.

[Lionheart]

forest of cynicism.

Is it really any wonder where this forest has grown from ?

A forest does not show up over night and once established is not easily removed.

Clueless!!! 

What do you call clear felling?? I don't know what it's like in Britain but in some forestry areas in Oz an old growth forest can be cleared in hours!!! (Bast@rds!!) 

Let's just agree to disagree. 

[66-1112520797]

(Bast@rds!!) 

I hope the plural wasnt aimed at me for my valid opinion.

[Lionheart]

(Bast@rds!!) 

I hope the plural wasnt aimed at me for my valid opinion.

No...

They are bast@ards for clear felling old growth forrests.

[66-1112520797]

(Bast@rds!!) 

I hope the plural wasnt aimed at me for my valid opinion.

No...

They are bast@ards for clear felling old growth forrests.

Oh ........     

[kazza]

forest of cynicism.

Is it really any wonder where this forest has grown from ?

A forest does not show up over night and once established is not easily removed.

Clueless!!! 

What do you call clear felling?? I don't know what it's like in Britain but in some forestry areas in Oz an old growth forest can be cleared in hours!!! (Bast@rds!!) 

Let's just agree to disagree. 

Although this has nothing to do with the thread but my point was if a forest was there then that is where it belongs. You can cut it away in hours but leave it alone for a couple of years and it will come back as the fuel for growth is still there.. It takes alot of work to clear a forest and keep it clear. It is not the natural course of events.

I love Oz but clearly you have your share of w@ankers as proven by the fact you call me clueless because you disagree with me.   

[89-1159041913]

whats happened to him?
where is he now?
is he injured or just being left out?
i'm interested as ive always been
an avid fan of his, it seems as shame
that he cant put a long run together.

ps if you dont want him, well buy him off you.

[OctopusesGarden]

not at all! enough sed

[Crouchamania]

Ahem anyway if we can get back to the subject Kewell has more ability on the ball than Gonzo (crossing shooting passing) but Gonzo has more pace.

I wouldn't be surprised if Harry went in January or the summer. Unhappy but not surprised. However Rafa does like him but he might be running out of patience.