Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Im sorry Owzat but you cant say overall Rafa subs are often late and ineffective because you are only highlighting the draws - what about the 30 other games when subs have been brought on ?!?!

[DrPepe]

Im sorry Owzat but you cant say overall Rafa subs are often late and ineffective because you are only highlighting the draws - what about the 30 other games when subs have been brought on ?!?!

yeah, i was just about to say that!

stats, eh?

[red_guy]

Lesson learned....... don't f@ck around against smaller teams. We threw away the game against smaller teams or very-weak-at-that-time team (spurs) / totally weak (Boro) team an etc.  Lessons for the players, i won't blame the manager this time. We played like sh@t in those games.

[DrPepe]

Lesson learned....... don't f@ck around against smaller teams. We threw away the game against smaller teams or very-weak-at-that-time team (spurs) / totally weak (Boro) team an etc.  Lessons for the players, i won't blame the manager this time. We played like sh@t in those games.

esp spurs - individual lack of concentration. Not acceptable when you've got a lead for so late in the game


i'd also put possibly put hull at home in that bracket - individual errors put hull 2 up and that left a huge hill to climb

[JC_81]

Da silva between the both cost them around 8 million - Evans is a great young player but its going forward where the difference is mick - Nani- 18 million - Anderson - 18 million  - Tevez- worth 30 million - Hargreaves (when fit) 20 million - Rooney 30 mil - Berbatov - 30 mil - Ronaldo 20 milish Carrick 20 mil they just bought two serb kids at around 15 million (The players you mention Mick are all defenders so they arent going to be big money ). Giggs(20 odd mill in prime),Scholes (30 mil in prime)and Flether all experienced prem performers. yes they have a few other kids ie wellbeck and gibson namely but they played cup as opposed to prem. and Maceda i think will be a flash in the pan .

You know what that post highlights to me?  Not that United have more firepower on the bench or that their team is is packed full of 10 mil plus players.  It highlights how much money Fergie has flushed down the pan in recent years.

Nani for 18 mil?  Anderson for 18 mil?  They were supposed to be the long term replacements for Giggs and Scholes, but they're not fit to lace the boots of those players.  Carrick and Hargreaves are never 20 mil pound players either although both good premiership players.  I think the jury is still out on Berbatov too as far as 30 mil is concerned, although obviously he is a quality player.

Nothing gets said about it now because United are still winning trophies, but the guts of 60 million was spent on Anderson/Nani/Hargreaves a few summers back - none of whom have made a significant contribution to this season (Hargreaves albeit due to injury).  No other manager would get away with that without getting slaughtered in the press for it.

[stmichael]

And whatever anyone says, United are still heavily reliant on Ronaldo, I don't care what anyone says. He's scored 25 goals (18 in the league) despite missing two months of the season. Vidic has scored more goals than their entire central midfield put together and Tevez and Berbatov have hardly been prolific.

[JC_81]

And whatever anyone says, United are still heavily reliant on Ronaldo, I don't care what anyone says. He's scored 25 goals (18 in the league) despite missing two months of the season. Vidic has scored more goals than their entire central midfield put together and Tevez and Berbatov have hardly been prolific.

This is the thing though.  EVERY team relies on their best players.  United heavily rely on Ronaldo and Rooney.  Arsenal were awful for much of this season with Fabregas and Adebayor out.  Chelsea missed Essien and Drobga badly this season and obviously we have been hit when Torres/Gerrard or both have been out.  There is no difference.  It's just that the media seem to focus on us and how we rely too much on our two best players, I don't know why.

[GYBS]

Da silva between the both cost them around 8 million - Evans is a great young player but its going forward where the difference is mick - Nani- 18 million - Anderson - 18 million  - Tevez- worth 30 million - Hargreaves (when fit) 20 million - Rooney 30 mil - Berbatov - 30 mil - Ronaldo 20 milish Carrick 20 mil they just bought two serb kids at around 15 million (The players you mention Mick are all defenders so they arent going to be big money ). Giggs(20 odd mill in prime),Scholes (30 mil in prime)and Flether all experienced prem performers. yes they have a few other kids ie wellbeck and gibson namely but they played cup as opposed to prem. and Maceda i think will be a flash in the pan .

You know what that post highlights to me?  Not that United have more firepower on the bench or that their team is is packed full of 10 mil plus players.  It highlights how much money Fergie has flushed down the pan in recent years.

Nani for 18 mil?  Anderson for 18 mil?  They were supposed to be the long term replacements for Giggs and Scholes, but they're not fit to lace the boots of those players.  Carrick and Hargreaves are never 20 mil pound players either although both good premiership players.  I think the jury is still out on Berbatov too as far as 30 mil is concerned, although obviously he is a quality player.

Nothing gets said about it now because United are still winning trophies, but the guts of 60 million was spent on Anderson/Nani/Hargreaves a few summers back - none of whom have made a significant contribution to this season (Hargreaves albeit due to injury).  No other manager would get away with that without getting slaughtered in the press for it.

well both nani and anderson still young and have in spluts and starts produced good performances - it wasnt long back that anderson had gerrard in his pocket and nani has bags of potential - look how long it took ronaldo to get really going . hargreaves when he has played has been very good for them - injury has cost him and carrick has had a very very good season for them . yeah they arent 20 mil pound players and berbatov so far seems to be a waste of 15 mil .

[stmichael]

It's ironic that we have had a good season despite the dross we signed last summer. It just goes to show that sometimes letting a team develop as opposed to selling 7 and buying 7 may well be a better way to go? I said last summer I'd prefer to not buy anyone rather than buy poor players - the same goes for this summer too.

[GYBS]

And whatever anyone says, United are still heavily reliant on Ronaldo, I don't care what anyone says. He's scored 25 goals (18 in the league) despite missing two months of the season. Vidic has scored more goals than their entire central midfield put together and Tevez and Berbatov have hardly been prolific.

This is the thing though.  EVERY team relies on their best players.  United heavily rely on Ronaldo and Rooney.  Arsenal were awful for much of this season with Fabregas and Adebayor out.  Chelsea missed Essien and Drobga badly this season and obviously we have been hit when Torres/Gerrard or both have been out.  There is no difference.  It's just that the media seem to focus on us and how we rely too much on our two best players, I don't know why.

Its the guys that come on when those big players are missing that make the difference - ours are not as good as the guys who step on for the mancs and chelsea .

[JC_81]

And whatever anyone says, United are still heavily reliant on Ronaldo, I don't care what anyone says. He's scored 25 goals (18 in the league) despite missing two months of the season. Vidic has scored more goals than their entire central midfield put together and Tevez and Berbatov have hardly been prolific.

This is the thing though.  EVERY team relies on their best players.  United heavily rely on Ronaldo and Rooney.  Arsenal were awful for much of this season with Fabregas and Adebayor out.  Chelsea missed Essien and Drobga badly this season and obviously we have been hit when Torres/Gerrard or both have been out.  There is no difference.  It's just that the media seem to focus on us and how we rely too much on our two best players, I don't know why.

Its the guys that come on when those big players are missing that make the difference - ours are not as good as the guys who step on for the mancs and chelsea .

For United I agree... but Chelsea?  They have good depth at centre half and given they play one up front and have two good strikers they have good cover there - but their backup is poor elsewhere.  The league table doesn't lie at this stage either, and they're behind us.

They have no genuine cover for either fullback, no decent backup keeper anymore, Mikel is the backup central midfielder (and he's sh.ite if you ask me), and their wide players that play from the start are substandard let alone the backup ones.  They rely heavily on ageing players and badly need to reinvest in that squad if they want to continue to challenge at the top.  We all saw how badly they faded this year when Drogba and Essien were out - so clearly their backup isn't that up to scratch.

[GYBS]

well their back up fullbacks kept messi quiet and ivanovic scored crucial goals against us - malouda has improved massively over the last couple of months and kalou provides more of a threat than any of our back up players . in midfield deco is back up now as well . so while not as strong as mancs in terms of options they are still strong.

[stmichael]

Going back to the point about only needing maybe two quality signings this summer. Remember when Chelsea looked unbeatable a few season's ago? Everyone thought they would dominate for years after winning two titles.

United that summer sold Van Nistelrooy and bought an uninspiring signing in Carrick. Everyone thought they would miss Van Nistelrooy's goals and thought Carrick was not worth 18 million (which might be correct). However United had a stable squad and Carrick improved their weak central midfield position. United started the season well and without having a top striker getting 20+ goals (a Premiership fan myth), they won the league.

Same happened for Arsenal two years ago. They sold Henry, Bergkamp retired, with few signings being made. Everyone thought they would struggle, yet they challenged for the league (and I think they might have won it if Eduardo didn't get injured).

Stablity, as Rafa has said recently is important and given the age and quality of our spine we shouldn't need to have 'revolutions' each summer.

[DrPepe]

Going back to the point about only needing maybe two quality signings this summer. Remember when Chelsea looked unbeatable a few season's ago? Everyone thought they would dominate for years after winning two titles.

United that summer sold Van Nistelrooy and bought an uninspiring signing in Carrick. Everyone thought they would miss Van Nistelrooy's goals and thought Carrick was not worth 18 million (which might be correct). However United had a stable squad and Carrick improved their weak central midfield position. United started the season well and without having a top striker getting 20+ goals (a Premiership fan myth), they won the league.

Same happened for Arsenal two years ago. They sold Henry, Bergkamp retired, with few signings being made. Everyone thought they would struggle, yet they challenged for the league (and I think they might have won it if Eduardo didn't get injured).

Stablity, as Rafa has said recently is important and given the age and quality of our spine we shouldn't need to have 'revolutions' each summer.

Eduardo. 4 goals in 17 league games last season? he would have won them the league ?

(i agree witheverything else in the post btw - this summer is a huge one for us, and will determine whether this season is a stepping stone or a blip)

[RobinHood6969]

One interesting piece of statistics which i found is
Cristiano Ronaldo : P 31 GS 18 Assists 6
Stevo : P 29 GS 15 Assists 8
Nando : P 22   GS 13 Assists 5

Had Nando played atleast 10 games more and stevie 3 or 4 we would be celebrating 19th now