Roy evans better than benitez? - Stats talk louder than words....

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Reg » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:14 pm

s@int wrote:We bought Babb and Scales instead and never quite made it.

Y'know I've enjoyed life for the last few years, I've finally got over acute depression and now you've blown all the good work by mentioning BABB's name.

If there was one player who walked away from Anfield with a bucketload of money and didnt deserve a penny of it, it was Phil Babb. And even when he clearly wasnt up to it, we didnt sell him.

Made Diao look like Zico.  :(
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Postby Elchris » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:16 pm

Only a great man(evans) can steady a big ship as liverpool..houlier had a great start then the ship started to wobble ...now rafa has done some tune up and has set sailing all he needs now is some cash to buy some turbo charged engine or sumethim to charge for the title  :p
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Postby Crouchamania » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:02 am

In the Evans era we had highs and lows. The highs included those two memorable games against Newcastle, winning the coca cola cup and getting to the cup final.

Some of the lows were what stmick said about how inconsistent we were and some of the :censored: we bought instead of good players that were available. As for the fa cup final itself.....don't get me started.
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:13 am

EddieC wrote:An interesting read, but it just goe to show that stats don't count for anything.

As the article says, Evans had the most promising bunch of players in England. He was also in charge at a time when Sh!tski didn't have their cash, and Manure didn't have as much as they have now. In the same circumstances, I'm sure Rafa would've won the title, and Houllier would've also done better.

I'm not having that.

You can forget about the money issue and the fact Chelsea werent around thats neither here nor there. Liverpool didnt have the money, and Man Utd were a brilliant footballing side. With those players that Evans had I still doubt Rafa would of won the title, consistency was that Liverpool's biggest problem and its still like that today.

Football has gone up a notch or two since thoughs days possibly, and Rafa has got better defensive players, better technical players and generally better players at his disposal. But the problem is Chelsea and ManUtd have improved with the times also, so to me it pans out equal.

Looking back Roy Evans wasnt a bad manager, he may of lacked the tactical side that other managers seem to have ie Rafa. His main downfall was his relationship with the players, a mister nice guy type bloke. Also in saying that he wasnt as Tactically as good as Rafa, Rafa himself has been found wanting at times, in terms of team selections, substitutions etc etc, which has left me scratching my head so ............

The better question maybe: How would Roy Evans fair with this current Liverpool side today 
???
Last edited by 66-1112520797 on Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:59 am

Reg wrote:
s@int wrote:We bought Babb and Scales instead and never quite made it.

Y'know I've enjoyed life for the last few years, I've finally got over acute depression and now you've blown all the good work by mentioning BABB's name.

If there was one player who walked away from Anfield with a bucketload of money and didnt deserve a penny of it, it was Phil Babb. And even when he clearly wasnt up to it, we didnt sell him.

Made Diao look like Zico.  :(

Sorry mate, I used to have the same problem with Babb till I got a short video of when he tried to knock a post down with his balls, I just think of that and smile now  :D
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:10 am

When trying to compare Evans to Rafa you have to remember Evans had been brought up in a tradition of work hard, play and drink hard( same as the Mancs). Todays players have to be atheletes, and what was accepted in Roy's time would be unthinkable behaviour now. One good thing Houllier did was to change the attitude of the players, but I still think we changed a couple of years after most other clubs had, and that cost us.
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Postby neil » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:37 am

Roy Evans couldn't bring himself to sub Steve Macmanaman no matter what, thats how I remember Roy.
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Postby 66-1120597113 » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:47 am

neil wrote:Roy Evans couldn't bring himself to sub Steve Macmanaman no matter what, thats how I remember Roy.

Yes another in depth realisation by neil.....dic.k!
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Postby neil » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:50 am

It wasn't quite "in depth( :D ) however it was insight.
Last edited by neil on Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sarge » Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:11 am

i watched a post match commentary (i didn't quite remember against which team) between a pundit and ian rush and he (rush) mentioned something about most of the senior players stood in unison behind benitez because he brings a different kind of quality that both shankly and paisley brought in their respective era.
if the man trusts benitez that much, why can't we?
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:01 am

Evans was a good man, still is I'm sure, but better than Rafa?

No way.

Evans had a tough task. He had to repair the damage that Souness caused.
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Postby jonnymac1979 » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:46 am

Sabre wrote:Is that an article, or Spion's opinion?

Without reading it yet, I'm willing to make a very well informed judgment...
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Postby heimdall » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:16 am

Even if I still have some lingering doubts about Rafa I have to say he is a million times better than Roy "what I'm allowed to make substitutions!!" Evans !!
Roy did steady the ship after that idiot Souness had almost recked the club but in truth he was a :censored: poor manager. If we had had Houllier or Rafa during those seasons we would have won for sure as we had so many great home grown players back then.
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Postby 83-1171708240 » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:24 pm

Roy Evan’s reign at Liverpool was very much a Jekyll and Hyde turn of events, one week Liverpool were magic and the next Liverpool were tragic. Roy’s two main problems were his signings and his lack of authoritarianism over the players and these two flaws in Evans’ management led to his downfall.

Liverpool under Evans played some fantastic football, the type of football that seems very much extinct in the Premiership these days, the type of attacking and fluent football that’s worth waking up on a Saturday morning, the type of football which mesmerises one and fills one with a large sense of anticipation, but with this somewhat beautiful football came inconsistency on a regular basis, you always knew Liverpool would play amazing football under Evans, but you could never predict if Liverpool were going to be brilliant or shockingly poor, our inconsistency must have made a fair few bookies an awful lot of money under Evans.  We would beat Arsenal one week and lose to Coventry the next and whilst we achieved high finishes under Roy, I felt he could not take the team any further than what he had done, unless he improved his tactical approach to the transfer market and his stamped his authority on players like Paul Ince who was marching around the dressing room calling himself “Guv’nor”, it was only a matter of time before Roy’s number was up, you could just feel it.

I can remember when he had to break up a drunken brawl between Neil Ruddock and Robbie Fowler, which resulted in Roy displaying a nice shiner on the dugout, you just knew something was wrong in the dressing room and you got the feeling that Roy just didn’t have the harsh streak in him to tackle these players, instead he let wild parties continue, lax attitudes in training continue and is it any wonder the board sat back and lost confidence in Roy Evans? All was not harmonious on and off the pitch during Roy’s period in charge.

There is also the case that Roy wasn’t backed in the transfer market, this is probably true to an extent, after all he wanted to bring some of the world’s best defenders to the club like Thuram and Desially, but the board refused to allow Evans to speak to these players on the grounds of the astronomical wages both players would have acquired had they signed for us. This might not be backing Evans, but it’s not a wise idea to sign these players and then plunge into debt like Leeds? With hindsight, it was probably the wrong decision to place a cap on Evans’ transfer desires, but he spent over £8m on Stan Collymore (what could have been) and I believe he signed Scales and Babb for a combined total of £7.5m. That’s backing to me.

I will have to agree with people who say that Evans was treated unkindly by the hierarchy in his final chapter as Liverpool manager and this is true, it was very cowardly of the board to make a duel managerial partnership to effectively force Evans out of the club, the board knew Gerard had different methods than Roy and you knew instantly when the duel partnership was formed that Roy would walk sooner or later, you had that gut feeling. I cried when Roy left, mind I was only 13, but I cried, because I knew how much Liverpool meant to Roy and the way in which the board conducted themselves in the handling of Roy Evans was disgraceful and that’s probably the one thing I will never forgive David Moores and the board for doing.

Roy had his chance and he couldn’t handle the immense expectations of a club of Liverpool’s richness and tradition. He lacked the few qualities needed in a manager to become a championship winning manager, he tried, he did well within his mean, but he couldn’t quite take us all the way, he rectified some of  problems Souness’ managerial period offered Liverpool, but fundamentally he just couldn’t quite cut it, if Roy had built a strong defence and shipped out the players who had their heads up their own bottoms, perhaps Evans would still be manager, but he has gone, but he won’t be forgotten or ignored, he will always be remembered in the nicest possible way, by every Liverpool fan, but I wouldn’t sack Benitez, Benitez has some flaws, but fundamentally Rafa has all the qualities that Roy lacked, it would suicide for us to turn back time and reappoint Roy.
Last edited by 83-1171708240 on Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabre » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:36 pm

That was an excellent first post!

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