Roy evans better than benitez? - Stats talk louder than words....

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby spion » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:26 pm

On second thoughts ...

Roy Evans
Remembered as a weak man who let his Spice Boys run riot, the former Liverpool boss was closer to winning the Premiership than his successors.

Long before Stan Collymore appeared on the reality TV show The Verdict, he had served as judge and jury on the managerial career of Roy Evans.

"One morning we were all wandering out to training when Roy [Evans] made some quip to Robbie Fowler and they started joking about. Robbie got the gaffer's head in an armlock and started rubbing his other hand across his head, frizzing up his hair. I caught myself imagining what would have happened if Gary Neville ever tried that with Alex Ferguson. Somehow, I couldn't see it."

This withering appraisal in Collymore's autobiography seemed to capture the essence of the Evans years: of the nice boy who couldn't control his Spice Boys, the shandy-weak boss who wasted an abundantly talented squad that should have dominated English football but instead are remembered for peroxide-blond mops, cream Armani suits and green-eyed envy at the tangible achievement of the other Red Army across the M62.

It might be time for a bit of revisionism. It was under Evans that Liverpool had their strongest title challenge of the last 15 years, in 1996-97 (they eventually finished fourth but had they beaten Manchester United at Anfield in mid-April they would've gone top with three games to go); it was under Evans that they played their best football of the last 15 years; and it was under Evans that the likes of Robbie Fowler, Jamie Redknapp and, arguably, Steve McManaman reached the high watermark of their careers.

Evans was certainly not without flaws - he bought some poor players, he had no idea how to handle or utilise a one-off like Collymore, and he cut his players too much slack on occasion - but he is hardly alone in that. He may not have been a born winner, but nor was he the hapless loser that some have made out.

It is revealing that, under Evans, Liverpool's average Premiership position* (3.5) was higher than under Gérard Houllier (3.6) or Rafa Benítez (4.0), yet Evans is ranked well below the two. The suspicion remains that, for all Liverpool fans' moralistic carping about the Holy Grail of a 19th league title, they are as susceptible to the cheap thrill of a Cup triumph as anyone else.

Evans won only a League Cup in 1995, with his side frequently going out in the early rounds in Europe and the FA Cup, often in humiliating circumstances. By contrast, Houllier and Benítez wowed their public with a treble and a Champions League victory which, while glorious, were entirely meaningless in terms of restoring Liverpool to the top of the pile. They are further away from that now than they were at any time under Evans: Liverpool are currently 16 points behind United, whereas the most they trailed under Evans was by 15 in 1994-95.

And at least they were good to watch back then. The quality and purity of the football played by Evans's teams was beyond reproach: he was the last of the Boot Room boys, and appropriately his side were the last to play in the pass-and-move tradition developed in the Boot Room. In 1996, their FA Cup final song was even called 'Pass & Move (The Liverpool Groove)'.

In the mid-nineties, particularly that 1995-96 season, Liverpool's Spice Boys were the best side in England to look at in every sense (Fowler the "Growler" notwithstanding). They played catwalk football. Kevin Keegan's Newcastle were thrillingly gung-ho, and Manchester United's forward play could be devastatingly decisive, but nobody was as striking, as aesthetic, as Liverpool.

They took part in the greatest game in Premiership history - the 4-3 against Newcastle in April 1996 (it rather sums up Evans's career that that match is remembered more for the losing manager, Keegan, than him). There were other memorable performances that season in particular, most notably when they blew away Blackburn and Aston Villa, defending champions and surprise packages respectively, at Anfield with devastating three-goal bursts in the first quarter of the game. And they outclassed eventual champions United home and away.

Yet when it came to the real crunch - the FA Cup final - they were locked in a full nelson by Roy Keane and deservedly beaten by Eric Cantona's fairytale late winner. It summed up Evans's Liverpool: they were consistent only in their inconsistency. That rout of Blackburn followed defeat away to 10-man Wimbledon. The 4-3 over Newcastle, which breathed new life into their title challenge, was followed by a miserable 1-0 defeat at Coventry. In the winter months they smashed Manchester City 6-0 before going seven matches without a win, and then snapping back into life to stuff United and Arsenal.

The problem for Evans was that the highs were so high that they left observers bemused as to how the lows could possibly be so low. So attention turned to off-field matters. The perception was thus fostered of a group of players who had the keys to the kingdom but decided they'd prefer a VIP suite at Chinawhites. Yet if team spirit is an illusion glimpsed in the aftermath of victory, as Steve Archibald famously said, then Evans might legitimately feel that Spice Boy excess is a delusion perceived in the aftermath of defeat. Like Cool Britannia, Britpop, TFI Friday and everything else that defined that period, those who criticise with hindsight are quick to forget just how enjoyable it was at the time.

Nor does it hold that Evans's romantic beliefs led to a damaging sacrifice of defensive principles: in three of his four seasons, Liverpool conceded fewer goals than the champions. Maybe the reality is that, as players, they just weren't that good; that Evans overachieved with the squad at his disposal. Whereas United, the dominant force, had Ryan Giggs and Keane in their prime, as well as a nascent David Beckham, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville and a renascent Cantona, Liverpool had only Fowler approaching the mythical world-class status.

Most of the other main attacking forces played better under Evans than before or since. Fowler was truly magnificent. Redknapp has never passed as aggressively or purposefully. McManaman, one of nature's uncomplaining lieutenants, was turned into the side's general. Collymore, though not as he good as he was at Nottingham Forest, never reached the heights of 95-96 again. It might be coincidence (certainly the cruciate injury that Fowler suffered in 1998, towards the end of Evans' reign, had a damaging effect on his career). Or it might be that Evans' gregarious methods - for richer or poorer - empowered some free spirits to play with a verve and joie de vivre that other managers could not locate.

Either way, his reign certainly wasn't all bad. Where his reputation is concerned, it might be time for the football cognoscenti to order a retrial.
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Postby EddieC » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:32 pm

An interesting read, but it just goe to show that stats don't count for anything.

As the article says, Evans had the most promising bunch of players in England. He was also in charge at a time when Sh!tski didn't have their cash, and Manure didn't have as much as they have now. In the same circumstances, I'm sure Rafa would've won the title, and Houllier would've also done better.
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Postby RedBlood » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:32 pm

Evans was a good manager but so was houllier

rafa is in another league though
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Postby RedBlood » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:35 pm

yes i did stutter
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Postby stmichael » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:36 pm

The Roy Evans era was the most frustrating ever for me as a Reds fan. We'd be great one week playing good football beating Leeds, Newcastle or Arsenal and then lose to Coventry, Wimbledon or Southampton the next game, sometimes at home. We also got battered by the likes of Strasbourg and PSG in Europe. I mean even under Houllier we didn't get anything as bad as that.
 
At the end of the day he wasn't good enough. Todays side would have won the league in that era, no question. Todays premiership is far harder to win.
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Postby puroresu » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:50 pm

I thought Evans got trated badly in the end.  He should of been given one more season and the double management idea they forced on him was bang out of order.

The football under Evans was a joy to watch.  It was fantastic pass and move stuff.  We played the best stuff in the country by a mile. Thats the way Liverpool should play!!!
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Postby Sabre » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:04 pm

Is that an article, or Spion's opinion?

I think that it's fair the point of defending Evan's memory. It's absolutely true, that the opinion of a hardly professional player like Collymore cannot be the jury of Evans.

But I don't think the text is spot on when he compares LFC to current LFC, but then that's just me.

Just as he says Evans got the best of McManaman and others, you could say the same about Rafa and Gerrard, Alonso, or Carraguer. All this players have played at a high level with a surprising regularity.

But all in all it's nice some revisionism, and it was a good read.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:31 pm

Roy Evans was a great man but only a good manager. He never managed to get the balance of the team right, but they played some great football. Unfortunately he will always be remembered as the "nearly man". We nearly had a great team, we nearly won the league and FA cup and he nearly got the best out of Collymore. I honestly believe if he had bought Hyypia and Henchoz we would have been Champions. We bought Babb and Scales instead and never quite made it.
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Postby redmikey » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:35 pm

i grew up as a lfc fan under evans really and the main thing i take from those days is the fact that we played some excellent football followed by getting d!cked by coventry five nil the next

and we used to take the worst corners ever, but it was a better period that souness, in those days i never realised we were on the slide and i sit now thinking that the bootroom mentality is what took us down as i don't feel that kenny should have been given the reigns as a player manager of the best club in the country at the time

and while people will say stats this and stats that, imho that is where the slide started,

souness tried to change everything at once by force and the upheaval caused shock waves though the players at the time

evans was never given the full backing of the board because of his nice guy tag, but in all truth i don't believe he had the killer instinct

GH well he brought a backbone to the club and we all thought we had the right man, but the style of football was never right and when things didnt go well he maxed out his credit card on dross players in a carpet bomb attempt to arrest the slide, also he shockingly ended all interest in the academy

rafa  is taking his time to adapt to english football and has made some errors so far but has more than impress the senior players and is rebuilding the belief in the player and the supporters that with the new money the club has attracted that he can take the whole ethos of the club back to where we rightly should reside

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Postby stmichael » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:42 pm

redmikey wrote:evans was never given the full backing of the board because of his nice guy tag, but in all truth i don't believe he had the killer instinct

Evans was right for the job after Souness and brought back some stability (and dignity) to the club. As you said he was basically shat on from a high perch by the club's hierarchy.

Fowler even states this is his book.
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Postby babu » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:14 pm

source?
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Postby redmikey » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:15 pm

when evans wanted to sign teddy sheringham the board said no and manure snapped him up

owen and teddy , fowler and teddy ,owen and fowler would have been a joy to watch
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Postby stmichael » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:23 pm

Last edited by stmichael on Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby davo_LFC » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:40 pm

I remember hearing that evans wanted stam and/or nesta aswell as sheringham but the board wouldnt sanction it, i believe we defo would have won the league with them to at the back because some of the defending was :censored: dreadful at the time. Ifs and buts though...
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Postby Rafa D » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:00 pm

I was a big fan of the Roy Evans era. So much so that when they sacked him, I never fully backed his sucessor Houllier as much as I should have.

Roy Evans brought Liverpool back from mediocritity. We were in danger of becoming a has been under Souness's stewardship and when Roy came in there were big problems not only on the pitch but also in the dressing room. Barnes was one who was very outspoken about things - quite ironic when you consider his less than prolific managerial record.

Roy steadied the ship.

Rafa's ready to set sail.
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