Roy evans better than benitez? - Stats talk louder than words....

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Rafa D » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:51 pm

Sabre wrote:That was an excellent first post!

Welcome

agreed
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Postby CardinalRed » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:22 pm

stmichael wrote:The Roy Evans era was the most frustrating ever for me as a Reds fan. We'd be great one week playing good football beating Leeds, Newcastle or Arsenal and then lose to Coventry, Wimbledon or Southampton the next game, sometimes at home. We also got battered by the likes of Strasbourg and PSG in Europe. I mean even under Houllier we didn't get anything as bad as that.
 
At the end of the day he wasn't good enough. Todays side would have won the league in that era, no question. Todays premiership is far harder to win.

Agreed St. Mike, but to be honest we are apt to be as inconsistent as we ever have been.... There are games that can be plucked out of this season that really should have been 3 pointers and came up short (Newcastle, Portsmouth, Sheff Utd...)
At the end of the day, being a "good manager" just ain't enough nowadays, you have to be the best. Ferguson deserves his place up there in the all-time list while Maurinho still has more to do to convince me (would he be as effective at a Charlton or a West Ham?)
Wenger has built his own dynasty and has been justly rewarded..... Given time (and Messrs Gillette & Hicks!) Rafa should go on to emulate what he did with Valencia and bring the main pot back to the North West......
Fingers crossed!!!


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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:00 pm

Trophies speak louder than stats in my opinion
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Postby azriahmad » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:12 pm

SouthCoastShankly, I agree wholeheartedly but would like to add that "token" trophies, where the opposition may or may not take the match seriously, such as the Charity/Community Shield and the European Supercup, should be excluded from being counted as a trophy haul to be proud of.

Rafa has won 2 Primera Liga titles against much bigger and wealthier rivals, the UEFA Cup with Valencia and the CL and FA Cup with us. Evans only won the League Cup while managing Liverpool. That says it all.
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Postby stmichael » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:10 pm

We've produced better (if less spectacular) teams under Houllier and Benitez. I've never known why people who laugh at Keegan's management style have then felt the need to defend Evans. I repeat myself: He couldn't win a VERY winnable league, a league Benitez would have dominated in my opinion...
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Postby Crouchamania » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:42 pm

Roy Evan’s reign at Liverpool was very much a Jekyll and Hyde turn of events, one week Liverpool were magic and the next Liverpool were tragic. Roy’s two main problems were his signings and his lack of authoritarianism over the players and these two flaws in Evans’ management led to his downfall.

Liverpool under Evans played some fantastic football, the type of football that seems very much extinct in the Premiership these days, the type of attacking and fluent football that’s worth waking up on a Saturday morning, the type of football which mesmerises one and fills one with a large sense of anticipation, but with this somewhat beautiful football came inconsistency on a regular basis, you always knew Liverpool would play amazing football under Evans, but you could never predict if Liverpool were going to be brilliant or shockingly poor, our inconsistency must have made a fair few bookies an awful lot of money under Evans.  We would beat Arsenal one week and lose to Coventry the next and whilst we achieved high finishes under Roy, I felt he could not take the team any further than what he had done, unless he improved his tactical approach to the transfer market and his stamped his authority on players like Paul Ince who was marching around the dressing room calling himself “Guv’nor”, it was only a matter of time before Roy’s number was up, you could just feel it.

I can remember when he had to break up a drunken brawl between Neil Ruddock and Robbie Fowler, which resulted in Roy displaying a nice shiner on the dugout, you just knew something was wrong in the dressing room and you got the feeling that Roy just didn’t have the harsh streak in him to tackle these players, instead he let wild parties continue, lax attitudes in training continue and is it any wonder the board sat back and lost confidence in Roy Evans? All was not harmonious on and off the pitch during Roy’s period in charge.

There is also the case that Roy wasn’t backed in the transfer market, this is probably true to an extent, after all he wanted to bring some of the world’s best defenders to the club like Thuram and Desially, but the board refused to allow Evans to speak to these players on the grounds of the astronomical wages both players would have acquired had they signed for us. This might not be backing Evans, but it’s not a wise idea to sign these players and then plunge into debt like Leeds? With hindsight, it was probably the wrong decision to place a cap on Evans’ transfer desires, but he spent over £8m on Stan Collymore (what could have been) and I believe he signed Scales and Babb for a combined total of £7.5m. That’s backing to me.

I will have to agree with people who say that Evans was treated unkindly by the hierarchy in his final chapter as Liverpool manager and this is true, it was very cowardly of the board to make a duel managerial partnership to effectively force Evans out of the club, the board knew Gerard had different methods than Roy and you knew instantly when the duel partnership was formed that Roy would walk sooner or later, you had that gut feeling. I cried when Roy left, mind I was only 13, but I cried, because I knew how much Liverpool meant to Roy and the way in which the board conducted themselves in the handling of Roy Evans was disgraceful and that’s probably the one thing I will never forgive David Moores and the board for doing.

Roy had his chance and he couldn’t handle the immense expectations of a club of Liverpool’s richness and tradition. He lacked the few qualities needed in a manager to become a championship winning manager, he tried, he did well within his mean, but he couldn’t quite take us all the way, he rectified some of  problems Souness’ managerial period offered Liverpool, but fundamentally he just couldn’t quite cut it, if Roy had built a strong defence and shipped out the players who had their heads up their own bottoms, perhaps Evans would still be manager, but he has gone, but he won’t be forgotten or ignored, he will always be remembered in the nicest possible way, by every Liverpool fan, but I wouldn’t sack Benitez, Benitez has some flaws, but fundamentally Rafa has all the qualities that Roy lacked, it would suicide for us to turn back time and reappoint Roy.


Top 1st post mate welcome aboard.
RIP Drummerphil YNWA

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Postby 83-1171708240 » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:25 pm

azriahmad wrote:SouthCoastShankly, I agree wholeheartedly but would like to add that "token" trophies, where the opposition may or may not take the match seriously, such as the Charity/Community Shield and the European Supercup, should be excluded from being counted as a trophy haul to be proud of.

Rafa has won 2 Primera Liga titles against much bigger and wealthier rivals, the UEFA Cup with Valencia and the CL and FA Cup with us. Evans only won the League Cup while managing Liverpool. That says it all.

Why would you want to pick and choose what trophy you want to count? Aren’t all trophies that comprise the trophy cabinet supposed to be counted? It seems a bit odd to discard trophies of a ‘lower’ creditability.

That’s not a fair comparison between Benitez and Evans now is it? Evans managed Liverpool and Swindon (my hometown) where as Benitez has managed several clubs, Salamanca, Tenerife, Valencia and Liverpool. I think it’s best to compare Benitez’s Liverpool records and Roy’s. Benitez is still better and still the best manager we could have possibly asked for.

P.S! Thanks for the warm welcome (all)
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Postby azriahmad » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:45 pm

Swindon, it's not that I pick and choose which trophies to count but the fact of the matter is that the Charity/Community Shield as the curtain raiser to the new season is not really treated as a priority or played as a top trophy cup final with the players being as committed as playing in the FA Cup final or league Cup final or other European club final. Similarly, the managers would not really pull all the stops to win them either.

It is a similar case with the European Supercup match, which is more of a burden on an already congested season. Barcelona and Rijkaard did not take their European Supercup match against Seville that seriously and while I hate to say this, Bayern Munich when they faced us for this trophy did not field their strongest side, with a few squad players fielded. When we played CSKA Moscow, they fielded pretty much their best team.

I'm not trying to diss Evans, it was Houllier who included the Charity Shield and the Supercup trophy as him "winning 5 trophies in one calender year" when defending his record in his final (and dismal) season with us.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:39 am

Ewan Murray
Friday February 16, 2007
The Guardian


Celtic's chairman, Brian Quinn, has warned Premiership clubs that Gordon Strachan's success since becoming the Parkhead club's manager does not make his return to England inevitable.
Speaking after Celtic announced profits totalling £17.9m in the six months to December 31, Quinn praised Strachan's "vital" contribution on and off the field. The former Coventry and Southampton manager was interviewed by Liverpool before Rafael Benítez was appointed to take over at Anfield three years ago and the fact that he is on course to secure a second Scottish championship in succession is certain to have raised his standing south of the border.


I was shocked to read that Strachan had been considered and interviewed for the Liverpool job before Benitez. He's a decent manager and would certainly have got the players motivated, but I would have thought a bit too inexperienced at the top level and in Europe to be seriously considered for Liverpool. Seems to have done a good job at Celtic though.
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Postby puroresu » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:31 pm

s@int wrote:Ewan Murray
Friday February 16, 2007
The Guardian


Celtic's chairman, Brian Quinn, has warned Premiership clubs that Gordon Strachan's success since becoming the Parkhead club's manager does not make his return to England inevitable.
Speaking after Celtic announced profits totalling £17.9m in the six months to December 31, Quinn praised Strachan's "vital" contribution on and off the field. The former Coventry and Southampton manager was interviewed by Liverpool before Rafael Benítez was appointed to take over at Anfield three years ago and the fact that he is on course to secure a second Scottish championship in succession is certain to have raised his standing south of the border.


I was shocked to read that Strachan had been considered and interviewed for the Liverpool job before Benitez. He's a decent manager and would certainly have got the players motivated, but I would have thought a bit too inexperienced at the top level and in Europe to be seriously considered for Liverpool. Seems to have done a good job at Celtic though.

I wasnt happy when Celtic got Strachan as I thought he wasnt right for the club.  After losing 5-0 to Armenia Bratislava I wanted him to get the sack.  However I cant fault the job his done even though his been lucky that Rangers have been so damn awful.

Still Strachan got to the last 16 of the CL and O'Neil never achieved that.  His bought well with a limitied budget as well.  The Nakumera signing was brilliant!!!
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Postby puroresu » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:33 pm

CardinalRed wrote:
stmichael wrote:The Roy Evans era was the most frustrating ever for me as a Reds fan. We'd be great one week playing good football beating Leeds, Newcastle or Arsenal and then lose to Coventry, Wimbledon or Southampton the next game, sometimes at home. We also got battered by the likes of Strasbourg and PSG in Europe. I mean even under Houllier we didn't get anything as bad as that.
 
At the end of the day he wasn't good enough. Todays side would have won the league in that era, no question. Todays premiership is far harder to win.

Agreed St. Mike, but to be honest we are apt to be as inconsistent as we ever have been.... There are games that can be plucked out of this season that really should have been 3 pointers and came up short (Newcastle, Portsmouth, Sheff Utd...)
At the end of the day, being a "good manager" just ain't enough nowadays, you have to be the best. Ferguson deserves his place up there in the all-time list while Maurinho still has more to do to convince me (would he be as effective at a Charlton or a West Ham?)
Wenger has built his own dynasty and has been justly rewarded..... Given time (and Messrs Gillette & Hicks!) Rafa should go on to emulate what he did with Valencia and bring the main pot back to the North West......
Fingers crossed!!!


                                           :cool:

I think Mourinho winning back to back prem titles, numerous Portugese titles, a UEFA Cup and CL with Porto in successive seasons makes him one of the best.
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