Liverpool FC Forum

[dawson99]

its not the budget, its the amount of dead weight hes signing. instead of signing 6 players in the sumemr, buy 2 very good ones... its that easy.

hopefully the new manager will realise that

[nobybob]

its not the budget, its the amount of dead weight hes signing. instead of signing 6 players in the sumemr, buy 2 very good ones... its that easy.

hopefully the new manager will realise that

you make it all sound so easy . well first of all you have to find these top players , then their current team has to be willing to sell, then our owners have to be willing to spend, then the player himself has to want to come, then you have to hope that you don't get outbid for the player by Chelsea etc, then the balance has to be made, what is best for the team if we need to cover 6 positions, do we spend big cover 2 and hope the team doesn't suffer cos the other 4 positions haven't been filled, or do we spread the money around a bit more and cover the 6 positions with the best our money can buy? swings and round abouts who's to say the team would be in a better position with either route?

[dawson99]

well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

[club_Levis]

[Kuyt - Waste.  Could of got better.
Pennant - Could of got better
Vorinin - Free.  Waste of space
Aurelio - Free.  Waste of space
Babel - overpriced but has potential if Rafa finally understands how to use him.

U may think Rafa has done all he can do in the transfer market but I think his failed to find gems on the cheap with the money his had.  He knew what his budget would be like when he came here and has failed to use the funds to find enough quality.  Instead wasting it on poorer players.

[Kuyt - Waste.  Could of got better.-----Anelka/Defoe
Pennant - Could of got better---Pederson
Vorinin - Free.  Waste of space----Agreed
Aurelio - Free.  Waste of space----Agreed
Babel - overpriced but has potential if Rafa finally understands how to use him.------Agreed

[nobybob]

well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

i agree if we have 24 million to spend on a winger then ok buy one great one for 24 mill but the problem arises when we only have 24 mill to buy a striker a left back and a winger __what then ?

[puroresu]

well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

It seems to me Rafa is intent on making the squad look stronger but our first 11 doesn't really improve.
I look at what we got with Pennant and then look at Bentley at Blackburn.  Both didnt make it at arsenal but one has moved on and is improving all the time while the other one seems to just be happy as his playing for a top 4 club not realising that its not just about putting on the shirt.

[burjennio]

dawson99 Posted on Feb. 05 2008,15:30
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well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

the problem there dawson is how many fantastic wingers are out there at the moment? They seem to be in short supply. you have to spend the money early on the likes of the ronaldos and robbens or else someone else will. 3 highly rated wingers became available last year, Malouda choose cash over history and the £17.5m asked for by Porto for Quaresma was a joke (did you see him at Anfield?) Simao went to Athletico Madrid for something like 12.5m but after the previous antics of Benfica to us that was a deal that was never going to happen. Top quality wingers are a rare breed indeed

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

Sorry mate, but that is at best misguided, at worst completely loony.

The owners can do almost anything they choose. They can take their trousers down and sh*t all over the Anfield turf whilst we play Fulham if they so please.

Do you truly believe that, after lying to us from the off, the owners would give two sh*ts what the fans want?

Furthermore, how would Rafa have won this season's league if he'd been sacked for losing to Marsaille?

Well the fans do have a huge say, look at why Benitez kept his job, because the fans marched for him. The Americans wouldn't of had the bottle to sack him after the support he was given at the time.

[club_Levis]

dawson99 Posted on Feb. 05 2008,15:30
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well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

the problem there dawson is how many fantastic wingers are out there at the moment? They seem to be in short supply. you have to spend the money early on the likes of the ronaldos and robbens or else someone else will. 3 highly rated wingers became available last year, Malouda choose cash over history and the £17.5m asked for by Porto for Quaresma was a joke (did you see him at Anfield?) Simao went to Athletico Madrid for something like 12.5m but after the previous antics of Benfica to us that was a deal that was never going to happen. Top quality wingers are a rare breed indeed

If Kuyt is worth 10 mil then Quaresma is worth double that so 17.5 milion was fair.

[Pedro Maradona]

well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

i agree if we have 24 million to spend on a winger then ok buy one great one for 24 mill but the problem arises when we only have 24 mill to buy a striker a left back and a winger __what then ?

Bigger the money, bigger the risk.
There is so much pressure on Benitez that even if a free transfer he buys turns out to be a failure he gets hounded over it.
I think he tried to put too many eggs in the one basket trying to buy Heinze, when that fell through and Agger got injuried was a turning point this year. If he went out and bought a winger for 24 million and he gets injured or isnt up to it then people will say why didnt you buy a couple of players with the money instead. (Ferguson did that for a few years buying one big signing a year, i.e. Veron, Rooney, etc. but he was able to slip them into a team easier because he had pretty much built up his team already. Benitez hasnt this luxury at the moment as he is clearly short a few players rather than just one big signing. (ie 2 new full backs, a couple of wingers and another centre forward) he is at the stage of getting players in who will do a job for him (not neccesarily world class players but competent enough ones)
The point is I think no matter who he buys he seems to be on a hiding to nothing.

[nobybob]

well we know the quaniy route hasnt worked, kinda narrows down the choices right?

all im saying is that we have had a fair bit to spend, and tis been spent on the whole badly. apart from torres, where we see now we have to spend a lot on one player to make the difference. so we shouldnt buy 3 wingers at 8 mill each over a year when we can spend 24 mill on one fantastic one.

dawson99Posted: June 25 2007,15:46 




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Agger Crouch Kuyt Sissoko all good buys but othing supremely outstanding there.
would torres be a world class buy?

[SouthCoastShankly]

[Kuyt - Waste.  Could of got better.
Pennant - Could of got better
Vorinin - Free.  Waste of space
Aurelio - Free.  Waste of space
Babel - overpriced but has potential if Rafa finally understands how to use him.

U may think Rafa has done all he can do in the transfer market but I think his failed to find gems on the cheap with the money his had.  He knew what his budget would be like when he came here and has failed to use the funds to find enough quality.  Instead wasting it on poorer players.

[Kuyt - Waste.  Could of got better.-----Anelka/Defoe
Pennant - Could of got better---Pederson
Vorinin - Free.  Waste of space----Agreed
Aurelio - Free.  Waste of space----Agreed
Babel - overpriced but has potential if Rafa finally understands how to use him.------Agreed

Rafa has made some sh!te signings but Pennant ain't one. Pennant for me has always been a lively player who has a good touch, when he was a full fitness he was brilliant, his only let down being he didn't score enough.

[megabomberman]

I'm sorry guys I just don't agree that Benitez has spent badly, we have plenty top quality players at the club now and only one over 11 mill look at this list

Agger - Fantastic, wouldn't trade him for anyone
Arbeloa - So cheap and a really solid versatile player who in time could develop attacking wise, still young
Skyrtel - we'll see but i was impressed last game
Aurelio - free and a stop gap until someone else comes along
alonso - I'm tired of him but he has superb quality
momo - great potential injury and lack of first team games stunted his growth, still profited though
masch - a monster
benayoun - 11 goals is it? 3 or so mill? a bit unsure but definitely a bargain
Luis Garcia - cheap again and loads of important goals, also make weight for torres
Crouch - top international
Torres - give rafa the money and he delivers
Babbel - unreal potential could be awesome
Lucas - Same as Babbel

Now I bet they are a load more too..

Some people are popping out with players rafa could have got, and some of them are in completely different time zones and positons, give over!

Rafa doesn't buy quantity and what you'll start seeing now is that when rafa starts bringing in new players to our young squad, he will start replacing old players...

I can see this if rafa's given the chance New left back- Risse out New striker - voronin crouch out New winger- Kewell and pennant out

You'll see we are going places

And please stop banging on about the one in a million jewels, pennant had the season bentley is currently having the year before we signed him, people like pederson would be exposed as average to poor in a liverpool jersey...

People will never give rafa the credit for his bargains like arbelo and agger and the likes because people expect liverpool to have players of this quality anyway, the truth is they normally come at well over their price, if the two of those were playing in mark hughes side we wouldn't stop hearing about "mark Hughes doing it again!" Please try and read a bit deeper in, we have lots of great players the truth is we are going places, we're just having a blip.. It happens to even the best.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

I'm sorry guys I just don't agree that Benitez has spent badly, we have plenty top quality players at the club now and only one over 11 mill look at this list

Agger - Fantastic, wouldn't trade him for anyone
Arbeloa - So cheap and a really solid versatile player who in time could develop attacking wise, still young
Skyrtel - we'll see but i was impressed last game
Aurelio - free and a stop gap until someone else comes along
alonso - I'm tired of him but he has superb quality
momo - great potential injury and lack of first team games stunted his growth, still profited though
masch - a monster
benayoun - 11 goals is it? 3 or so mill? a bit unsure but definitely a bargain
Luis Garcia - cheap again and loads of important goals, also make weight for torres
Crouch - top international
Torres - give rafa the money and he delivers
Babbel - unreal potential could be awesome
Lucas - Same as Babbel

Now I bet they are a load more too..

Some people are popping out with players rafa could have got, and some of them are in completely different time zones and positons, give over!

Rafa doesn't buy quantity and what you'll start seeing now is that when rafa starts bringing in new players to our young squad, he will start replacing old players...

I can see this if rafa's given the chance New left back- Risse out New striker - voronin crouch out New winger- Kewell and pennant out

You'll see we are going places

And please stop banging on about the one in a million jewels, pennant had the season bentley is currently having the year before we signed him, people like pederson would be exposed as average to poor in a liverpool jersey...

People will never give rafa the credit for his bargains like arbelo and agger and the likes because people expect liverpool to have players of this quality anyway, the truth is they normally come at well over their price, if the two of those were playing in mark hughes side we wouldn't stop hearing about "mark Hughes doing it again!" Please try and read a bit deeper in, we have lots of great players the truth is we are going places, we're just having a blip.. It happens to even the best.

Starters, how can you class Aurellio as a good buy? Skrtel, Babel and Lucas have yet to proven to be great buys, but I do like the look of Babel and Lucas.

But on the other hand, we can rattle off the amount of bad signings if we wanted. Josemi, Nunez, Morientes, Pelligrino, Intandje, Kuyt, Voronin, Sissoko IMO, Aurellio IMO, Kromkamp, Zenden, Barragan, Fowler (even though past it when we brought him back) as well as many others who haven't quite performed up to standards.

[burjennio]

Aurellio and Riise started to form a great understanding last season before his terrible injury, he also whips one hell of a cross in. Its hard coming back from multiple injuries, and harder if you're in a team low on confidence.