Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

There are some absolutely ridiculous points that have been made on this page from different people, I'd love to go to town, as I once would've, but it's frankly too tedious.

Some people just don't f*cking think. 

[account deleted by request]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

I think what Bob was meaning is that Rafa probably wouldn't have got the chance to go for the title if we had failed to qualify for the CL because he would have been replaced in November, or more likely Christmas time.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

I think what Bob was meaning is that Rafa probably wouldn't have got the chance to go for the title if we had failed to qualify for the CL because he would have been replaced in November, or more likely Christmas time.

Either way, he still should of been concentrating on the league. Alls I hear him say is "concentrate on the next game, don't look to far ahead." Well he looked to far ahead with that Reading game. There was still 20 minutes to go. But he give up. That to me proved the league wasn't important enough for him.

[Bad Bob]

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league

And yet, not three hours before, we read:

Liverpool Football Club wants the league, Rafael Benitez doesn't.

Listen, I've got no beef with people who question Rafa's methods or think he's taken us as far as he can.  I don't share that opinion but I can understand it and respect it.  I do, however, find people that question his desire to win the league to be unduly cynical and pretty uncharitable to a man who has utterly devoted himself to this club, its supporters, and its traditions in the short time he's been here.

[The Manhattan Project]

I want Anne Hathaway, but I doubt I'm going to get her.


Rafa I think wants to win the Prem, but I just don't think he can.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league

And yet, not three hours before, we read:

Liverpool Football Club wants the league, Rafael Benitez doesn't.

Listen, I've got no beef with people who question Rafa's methods or think he's taken us as far as he can.  I don't share that opinion but I can understand it and respect it.  I do, however, find people that question his desire to win the league to be unduly cynical and pretty uncharitable to a man who has utterly devoted himself to this club, its supporters, and its traditions in the short time he's been here.

Well thanks Bob, I didn't think I actually wrote Benitez didn't want the league because obviously he does, I just don't see him wanting it as badly as he wants the European Cup. Which is a shame.

[Effes]

My main problem is I don't see things changing. Rafa is not going to rotate less, he is still going to play people where he thinks is best rather than where the player prefers playing. He is still going to put out teams that seem more concerned with nutralising our opponents rather than concentrating on our strengths.

I personally don't believe Rafa will ever win the league with us. Plenty of cups but not the title. He makes too many mistakes to ever have us challenging. He treats the team like a chess board, thinking he can win games by tactics and outmanouvering the other team rather than by the efforts and skills of his players. The more decisions/gambles you make, the more chance there is of one being wrong. The more changes you make to the team again increases the chances that the balance might not be quite right.

Im with you all the way on that.

The way I look at it, the main aim should be to get a League-winning side, then the cups should follow.

Rotation doesn't affect cup competitions in the drastic way it does in the league. Winning the league is all about consistency - unfortunately consistency is very difficult with rotation of key players

[Lando_Griffin]

People keep saying things like "if Rafa is a genius then why doesn't he win us the league with it?" and the simple answer is the team is not yet good enough...

It doesn't matter what kind of a genius you are, over 38 games the best team (if no injuries) or otherwise best squad (something rafa is trying to implement) will win the league.

I don't think any of us could say avram grant is the bees knees but chelsea seem to be doing grand without the much loved mourhinio, of course he is though, look at that absolutely awesome team and even more awesome squad, you could get 2 teams challening for the title out of that squad!! For god sake I'd be able to challenge for 4 trophies with that team, it picks itself! This is the same man, many people want as their saviour.... but look at mourinhio, he is a text book bully, he suceeds when the cards are in his hands, he's a fantastic motivator and can turn his team of superstars into champions... With Chelsea he was playing fantasy manager with his squad buying anyone he wanted it was simple and even then he had a disaster of a summer in the transfer market.. paying over the odds for Molouda, Sidwell, Ben Haim!! and Kalou, and don't forget he lost the season for chelsea the year before having no cover at centre back and people on here give out about Benitez record.. and he's working on a much tighter budget.

This Mourinho won titles in portugal for fun, its like winning the SPL as Celtic without Rangers about in Scotland not exactly amazing.

His Champions League triumph is however something I cannot take away from the man, it was an incredible achievement similar to our own Benitez.

Now look at Rafas 2 other "big league" titles (Spain Italy and England being the big ones) he did this at valencia, (a club in a position much like ourselves at the time) I think those 2 league titles were even more impressive than Jose's at Chelsea. Also Rafa has won a Uefa Cup, Champs League, Fa Cup and been to a Carling Cup and another CL final with liverpool. Please don't right off his achievements. We have been so prosperous under him.

Calling for Mourinho now is just lazy, it seems like the perfect fix, the logic "he's won it with chelsea, he'll win it with us" is misguided, the cards were in his favour then, and he still got outfoxed 3 times by benitez (2 champ league semis, and fa cup semi), lets at least try and stick together and let rafa see this true, or believe me Liverpool will barring a miracle turn into an irrelevant past club like nott forest, leeds etc etc... And none of us want that!

Post more often mate - it's good to read something not drenched in anti-Rafa drivel.

[Lando_Griffin]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

Sorry mate, but that is at best misguided, at worst completely loony.

The owners can do almost anything they choose. They can take their trousers down and sh*t all over the Anfield turf whilst we play Fulham if they so please.

Do you truly believe that, after lying to us from the off, the owners would give two sh*ts what the fans want?

Furthermore, how would Rafa have won this season's league if he'd been sacked for losing to Marsaille?

[Lando_Griffin]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

I think what Bob was meaning is that Rafa probably wouldn't have got the chance to go for the title if we had failed to qualify for the CL because he would have been replaced in November, or more likely Christmas time.

Either way, he still should of been concentrating on the league. Alls I hear him say is "concentrate on the next game, don't look to far ahead." Well he looked to far ahead with that Reading game. There was still 20 minutes to go. But he give up. That to me proved the league wasn't important enough for him.

Just out of interest, if you were, say, a paramedic, and you were faced with the following situations, which would you tend to first?:

1. A man with a wound that may turn septic, or,

2. A man that had been in a traffic accident, and whom would die without urgent medical care?

[nobybob]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

I think what Bob was meaning is that Rafa probably wouldn't have got the chance to go for the title if we had failed to qualify for the CL because he would have been replaced in November, or more likely Christmas time.

Either way, he still should of been concentrating on the league. Alls I hear him say is "concentrate on the next game, don't look to far ahead." Well he looked to far ahead with that Reading game. There was still 20 minutes to go. But he give up. That to me proved the league wasn't important enough for him.

Just out of interest, if you were, say, a paramedic, and you were faced with the following situations, which would you tend to first?:

1. A man with a wound that may turn septic, or,

2. A man that had been in a traffic accident, and whom would die without urgent medical care?

bang on LANDO its all about priorities here and i am astonished that at the present time some people attack a man who clearly only wants the best for us, who is totally devoted to LFC. meanwhile back in the real world . hicks a man who intends on milking the club dry is receiving secret emails saying "its all going to be okay cos the fans are calming down and some are venting their anger towards RAFA.
Its a simple mater of triage love Rafa, or hate him, if you love lfc then the priority must be clear!!
do we keep fiddling while ROME burns

ONE question i want someone to answer here . lets forget RAFAS past achievements here, set them aside ,pretend he has won fu.ck all. Okay now RAFA has achieved the same as fergie when he first came to manure.

DOES RAFA NOT DESERVE THE SAME TIME AS MANURE AFFORDED FERGIE TO WIN THE LEAGUE? ?

ps ___nice to see you back LANDO

[Lando_Griffin]

Cheers mate.

[puroresu]

Well if he wanted the league, why bring Torres, Gerrard and Carra off in a game right before a european game?
If he wanted the league, why does he still rotate when it's obvious it doesn't work?
If he wanted the league, why drop Torres for the Portsmouth game?
If he wanted the league, why are we 17 fu.cking points behind already?

.

We were 3-1 down, he couldn't see them making any more of a difference in the remaining 18 minutes, having not made a difference in the first 72. The importance of that particluar CL game was the difference between the Club earning an additional £10m or so, and i suppose at the time his job depended on it, oh how selfish of him.

Rotation has not worked or team formation has not worked? Many, me included, think rotation can, and does work, its the formations that have hurt us. You see in his experience his methods have worked, two league titles would point to that. Nobody can prove that an alternative method would have worked any better.

Torres was carrying a knock, well documented but also well ignored here. He kept him on the bench only to risk putting Torres on if the situation was dire, as it turned out.

We are 17 points behind because our team is weaker that our rivals simple as. The cr@p about the managers position and the uncertainty behind the scenes would also hinder the performances, again a simple and obvious conclusion.

I ASK YOU AGAIN DO YOU REALLY, NOW THINK HARD, REALLY THINK RAFA DOES NOT WANT TO WIN THE LEAGUE?

He doesn't want the kudos, and legendary status that would be bestowed on him? The recognition that he has yet again broken a financial duopoly? No ofcourse not, why would he indeed.

Well 3-1 down or not, it still proved he wasn't interested in trying to make a comeback because we had europe coming up next.

Rotation won him two league titles in spain, contrary to what you might think Liverpool play in England. And as far as I can remember dropping your best players and playing around with formations and different players every week hasn't won a league title in England. I may be wrong of course, but I doubt it.

Jamie Carragher has played over 500 games, do you think everyone of them he was 100% because I doubt it. Carrying a knock or not, that early in a season when you're STILL in a title chase, your best players must play.

We're 17 points behind because we drop points to sh!t sides like Birmingham and Wigan at home, and the reason we drop points is because this "tactical genius" can't work out a way to break sides down when they put 11 men behind the ball.

So I've thought long and hard, and I don't recall saying Benitez doesn't WANT the league, but it's not his number 1 priority, whatever you, he or anyone else would lead me to believe. His number 1 priority has been and always will be Europe, which will be proven in the Inter Milan game. Do you think he'll rest Gerrard or Torres for that game and make a strong push for 4th? I can't see it meself. I can however see him dropping Torres and/or Gerrard for the FA Cup tie against Barnsley in time for the Inter game.

On the Reading game, I didn't love the 'throw in the towel' move either but given what we know now about the owners' approach to Klinsmann behind the scenes, I can understand where Rafa was coming from.  I guarantee you that the owners made it very clear to Rafa that his job depended on getting out of the CL group and I equally guarantee you that that was behind his substitutions at Reading.

Well that just goes to show how much he loves the club. If he loved the club that much, and loved the fans that much he'd be all in favour of the league, not giving a toss about the owners and what they want. Trust me, speaking as a fella who's lived in Liverpool for 40 years, stood on the Kop for 35 and been deprived of a league title for the last 18, any manager who could give us the league title, would be labelled a god by the fans. If we won the league, contary to what the owners want, Benitez wouldn't be sacked for another 20 years. The fans wouldn't allow him to be sacked if we won the league under his guidance. And people might say well it doesn't matter what the fans think, if the owners dont want you then you're gone, but that's bollox in all honesty. The owners would have to keep Benitez on in fear of a mutinty, if and only if he was to win the league. The fact that we won't win it under him, means we might as well get rid of him.

I think what Bob was meaning is that Rafa probably wouldn't have got the chance to go for the title if we had failed to qualify for the CL because he would have been replaced in November, or more likely Christmas time.

Either way, he still should of been concentrating on the league. Alls I hear him say is "concentrate on the next game, don't look to far ahead." Well he looked to far ahead with that Reading game. There was still 20 minutes to go. But he give up. That to me proved the league wasn't important enough for him.

Just out of interest, if you were, say, a paramedic, and you were faced with the following situations, which would you tend to first?:

1. A man with a wound that may turn septic, or,

2. A man that had been in a traffic accident, and whom would die without urgent medical care?

bang on LANDO its all about priorities here and i am astonished that at the present time some people attack a man who clearly only wants the best for us, who is totally devoted to LFC. meanwhile back in the real world . hicks a man who intends on milking the club dry is receiving secret emails saying "its all going to be okay cos the fans are calming down and some are venting their anger towards RAFA.
Its a simple mater of triage love Rafa, or hate him, if you love lfc then the priority must be clear!!
do we keep fiddling while ROME burns

ONE question i want someone to answer here . lets forget RAFAS past achievements here, set them aside ,pretend he has won fu.ck all. Okay now RAFA has achieved the same as fergie when he first came to manure.

DOES RAFA NOT DESERVE THE SAME TIME AS MANURE AFFORDED FERGIE TO WIN THE LEAGUE? ?

ps ___nice to see you back LANDO

This isnt 20 years ago.  Can people stop banging on about Fergie and Man U in the 80's

[ConnO'var]

This isnt 20 years ago.  Can people stop banging on about Fergie and Man U in the 80's

The same way that we the anti-rotationers, speak about the good old days of Shankly, Paisley, Fagan and Dalglish?

No mate..... it's a valid arguement. We all learn from history.

[account deleted by request]

DOES RAFA NOT DESERVE THE SAME TIME AS MANURE AFFORDED FERGIE TO WIN THE LEAGUE??

Funnily enough Fergie was going to be sacked after THREE YEARS, but his job was saved by some reserve team player, when they beat Notts Forest in the FA CUP in 1989 which they then went on to win. Fergie had finished second in the league the year before! Only 9 points behind Liverpool.

So maybe the mancs wern't that patient after all ?