Liverpool FC Forum

[woof woof !]

But in what sense is he years ahead of lucas? I think lucas has been better then him this season or if not on par and its been lucas's first season only and he's had to adapt to a foreign league and been given very limited oppturntuies

My opening post lays out my opinion of Lucas . Alonso (imo) despite not being as sensational as he was in his first season with us , still has more in his locker regarding passing ability than Lucas will perhaps ever have and defensively he has far more presence and ability when challenging for a ball.

[Toffeehater]

But in what sense is he years ahead of lucas? I think lucas has been better then him this season or if not on par and its been lucas's first season only and he's had to adapt to a foreign league and been given very limited oppturntuies

My opening post lays out my opinion of Lucas . Alonso (imo) despite not being as sensational as he was in his first season with us , still has more in his locker regarding passing ability than Lucas will perhaps ever have and defensively he has far more presence and ability when challenging for a ball.

No arguements there and with that said i think lucas has a better attacking sense and ability then xabi

[Bad Bob]

By passing back to the defence or being simple in terms of passing   in 8 out of 10 occassions does not win you games , He should be pushing the ball up and forward , how i don't know but thats what he's paid to do and if u can't well ......
You're not always gonna have space and time to pass back to a defender then repositon yourself to pass better , he should be doing it in one step , receive and pass , thats the alonso of the first season and maybe second

Funny, I thought keeping possession was a formula for winning matches?  It sure beats hopeful punts upfield or passing to an opponent under pressure.  Forgive me for thinking that pass and move might still be a part of football that should be appreciated and cultivated at Liverpool Football Club. 

Now, that really must be my last word on the subject of Alonso.  I'm clearly not going to convince Alonso's staunchest critics that he brings something important to the team and I don't want to relaunch the Great Alonso Wars on here.  IMO, he's more than worthy of his place in team and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion.

[Toffeehater]

By passing back to the defence or being simple in terms of passing   in 8 out of 10 occassions does not win you games , He should be pushing the ball up and forward , how i don't know but thats what he's paid to do and if u can't well ......
You're not always gonna have space and time to pass back to a defender then repositon yourself to pass better , he should be doing it in one step , receive and pass , thats the alonso of the first season and maybe second

Funny, I thought keeping possession was a formula for winning matches?  It sure beats hopeful punts upfield or passing to an opponent under pressure.  Forgive me for thinking that pass and move might still be a part of football that should be appreciated and cultivated at Liverpool Football Club. 

Now, that really must be my last word on the subject of Alonso.  I'm clearly not going to convince Alonso's staunchest critics that he brings something important to the team and I don't want to relaunch the Great Alonso Wars on here.  IMO, he's more than worthy of his place in team and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion.

Well we shall see in the summer , if rafa sells him well then .....

[Ola Mr Benitez]

I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, because as people know, I'm not one who follows the crowd.

Is that because the crowd tend to run faster than you ?   

I think Alonso was probably found out after his first season with us and after those first season displays any opposing managers instruction must surely be "for christs sake close him down, give him space and he could destroy us"

Maybe I'm looking for excuses for Alonso , I'm sure the class is still there , it's just that the fella's not being given time and space to fully exploit it. He's closed down very early and when he does get a bit of space He's still caught dwelling on the ball more than he should and really has to move his game up a gear if he wants to recapture the impact he first made with us. Still a top midfielder if not quite a great one but years ahead of Lucas imo.

Yes so shouldn't he work harder on his passing , change his gameplan ?? Look and pass quicker , the english premier league is not a league where u will get time to do everything you want .

FFS, this is getting annoying now.  So, yes, Alonso often gets closed down quickly, we all agree.  Smart tactics on the oppo's part, that.  But, what happens in those cases?  Does he just hoof it up the pitch or send wild, arrant passes every which way.  No he  does not.  He usually plays the simple ball back to a defender and then repositions himself to receive the return ball in more space.  He then, more often than not, turns and looks upfield and, more often than not, feeds a ball into Gerrard's feet "between the lines" or puts a diagonal ball out to either Babel or Kuyt, some of which they control, others of which they don't.  Some people make out like Xabi gets caught in possession a dozen times a match and is just this lead-footed passenger in midfield.  I tell you, watch the matches again and see how many times he keeps possession and passes it to a red shirt.  Simple but effective.

100% agree. sense at last!

[Kukilon]

It may have sounded like I think Alonso is but that is far from how I feel. If he decides that not playing all of the time is ok I'm more than pleased to have a back up like him on the team. I doubt he wants this though.

[NJD83]

Well I did read this morning that Rafa is after Barry, what does everyone think if this happens? Alonso on his way out and Barry and Masch allowing Gerrard to go forward.

[66-1112520797]

By passing back to the defence or being simple in terms of passing   in 8 out of 10 occassions does not win you games , He should be pushing the ball up and forward , how i don't know but thats what he's paid to do and if u can't well ......
You're not always gonna have space and time to pass back to a defender then repositon yourself to pass better , he should be doing it in one step , receive and pass , thats the alonso of the first season and maybe second

Funny, I thought keeping possession was a formula for winning matches?  It sure beats hopeful punts upfield or passing to an opponent under pressure.  Forgive me for thinking that pass and move might still be a part of football that should be appreciated and cultivated at Liverpool Football Club. 

Now, that really must be my last word on the subject of Alonso.  I'm clearly not going to convince Alonso's staunchest critics that he brings something important to the team and I don't want to relaunch the Great Alonso Wars on here.  IMO, he's more than worthy of his place in team and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion.

Taken over from Lando I see.

Alonsos been our best player this season !!

[66-1112520797]

FFS, this is getting annoying now.  So, yes, Alonso often gets closed down quickly, we all agree.  Smart tactics on the oppo's part, that. But, what happens in those cases?  Does he just hoof it up the pitch or send wild, arrant passes every which way.  No he  does not.  He usually plays the simple ball back to a defender and then repositions himself to receive the return ball in more space.  He then, more often than not, turns and looks upfield and, more often than not, feeds a ball into Gerrard's feet "between the lines" or puts a diagonal ball out to either Babel or Kuyt, some of which they control, others of which they don't.  Some people make out like Xabi gets caught in possession a dozen times a match and is just this lead-footed passenger in midfield.  I tell you, watch the matches again and see how many times he keeps possession and passes it to a red shirt.  Simple but effective.

This season especially he hasnt even been quick ehough to play thre simple ball, hes more pften than not been caught in possesion and then robbed, or at times when under pressure hes given possesion to the opposition.

Even Xabis die hard fans surely know this hasnt been his best season, and I doubt I'm not alone on that.

[Festy]

With the new 4-2-3-1 formation we'll need at least 5 center mid next season. Out of these 5, StevieG and Masch are certain to be in the starting 11 all season. Lucas would be more than decent back-up but I doubt he'd start regularly.That means if Alonso goes, we'll need a good,solid,experienced and proven center mid (not Lucas), who can start alongside Stevie and Mash. Secondly a back-up CM like Lucas who can fill in, in case of injuries, rotation.

[NJD83]

With the new 4-2-3-1 formation we'll need at least 5 center mid next season. Out of these 5, StevieG and Masch are certain to be in the starting 11 all season. Lucas would be more than decent back-up but I doubt he'd start regularly.That means if Alonso goes, we'll need a good,solid,experienced and proven center mid (not Lucas), who can start alongside Stevie and Mash. Secondly a back-up CM like Lucas who can fill in, in case of injuries, rotation.

As I said how about Barry???

[Bad Bob]

By passing back to the defence or being simple in terms of passing   in 8 out of 10 occassions does not win you games , He should be pushing the ball up and forward , how i don't know but thats what he's paid to do and if u can't well ......
You're not always gonna have space and time to pass back to a defender then repositon yourself to pass better , he should be doing it in one step , receive and pass , thats the alonso of the first season and maybe second

Funny, I thought keeping possession was a formula for winning matches?  It sure beats hopeful punts upfield or passing to an opponent under pressure.  Forgive me for thinking that pass and move might still be a part of football that should be appreciated and cultivated at Liverpool Football Club. 

Now, that really must be my last word on the subject of Alonso.  I'm clearly not going to convince Alonso's staunchest critics that he brings something important to the team and I don't want to relaunch the Great Alonso Wars on here.  IMO, he's more than worthy of his place in team and I doubt I'm alone in that opinion.

Taken over from Lando I see.

Alonsos been our best player this season !!

Well, Lando has gone walkabout, as you Aussies say , so someone's got to step up.    Alonso's clearly not been our best player all season and he's not had his best season in a red shirt but he's still worthy of his place in the side...that's all I'm saying.

[Owzat]

With the new 4-2-3-1 formation we'll need at least 5 center mid next season. Out of these 5, StevieG and Masch are certain to be in the starting 11 all season. Lucas would be more than decent back-up but I doubt he'd start regularly.That means if Alonso goes, we'll need a good,solid,experienced and proven center mid (not Lucas), who can start alongside Stevie and Mash. Secondly a back-up CM like Lucas who can fill in, in case of injuries, rotation.

As I said how about Barry???

I wouldn't overload the CM positions simply on the premise of ONE formation we can/will/may employ. We need four CMs, would be the case if we play 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 (or variations which split the midfield). So what have we at the moment, Gerrard, Mascherano, Lucas, Alonso and Plessis as a possible for next season or the season after, is adequate. If we start addressing CM to suit our formation then what about areas that do need addressing and will take plenty of cash to do so? Which is more in need of priority attention - LM & RM, LB & RB, CF or CM?

Maybe Rafa was testing the water with Plessis the other weekend, seeing if he could cope yet with a view to him being the back-up/fifth CM. When we sign new players in the summer there is every chance they will be bought with a view to reverting to 4-4-2

[Sabre]

Look some people will say you clueless gimp, and others will tell you that you're clouded by loyalty, but at the end of the day it's a matter of tastes. You can discuss for ages whether you like more one whisky or another, it will be a matter of tastes.


Now, if you want to have a cuantitive and objective view of what's the relevance of a player within a team, then you have to look at how much he's playing in the team.

Thus, Alonso this season played regularly in these early and happy clappy days of the season in which we even read threads like "We're on top of the table!", he played all this league games while Mascherano was rotated for the league and used in the early european games.

Then he continued playing regularly until the injury. Then he struggled coming back to form (he's always slow for that tbh in preseason aswell), and Lucas entered the team. Which is just a sign that this squad is more competitive than 3 years ago, Alonso wouldn't have real competition back then when he had to come from injury. And that's good for the team.

Lucas, had a very difficult journey this season mates. He has to compete for a spot in the middle (he doesn't play wings), with Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard. That's serious competition. To be able to enter the team in such a set of the midfield, to be able to do good games and not being the worst of the team in bad games, is quite remarkable.

What we can't expect is to bring in a young lad and put all the weight of the team and the season over his shoulders (1). So for the first season, Lucas' job has been more than acceptable, and he seems promising enough for me. In the wings though, we didn't have a set of quality, and we've put too much weight on Babel's shoulders because Kewell, once again was missing in action. That's what we have to sort out, with experienced and quality signings for the wings.


(1) Exception to this rule, Torres.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

FFS, this is getting annoying now.  So, yes, Alonso often gets closed down quickly, we all agree.  Smart tactics on the oppo's part, that. But, what happens in those cases?  Does he just hoof it up the pitch or send wild, arrant passes every which way.  No he  does not.  He usually plays the simple ball back to a defender and then repositions himself to receive the return ball in more space.  He then, more often than not, turns and looks upfield and, more often than not, feeds a ball into Gerrard's feet "between the lines" or puts a diagonal ball out to either Babel or Kuyt, some of which they control, others of which they don't.  Some people make out like Xabi gets caught in possession a dozen times a match and is just this lead-footed passenger in midfield.  I tell you, watch the matches again and see how many times he keeps possession and passes it to a red shirt.  Simple but effective.

This season especially he hasnt even been quick ehough to play thre simple ball, hes more pften than not been caught in possesion and then robbed, or at times when under pressure hes given possesion to the opposition.

Even Xabis die hard fans surely know this hasnt been his best season, and I doubt I'm not alone on that.

I just can't agree..  You are saying that he normally gets the ball taken off him???   That is utter nonsense.

We all know his best season was his first season with us, but he is still comfortably one of the best mid fielders in the Premiership...  Who would you want to swap him for?