Liverpool FC Forum

[Kerry07]

Progress overall since he took over... Yes
Progress this season? None at all after that outlay.

Agreed.

It must be remembered that Kenny took over Liverpool at a perfect time for him. We had our worst start for over half a century under a clown of a manager (a 6 month reign that should be dismissed as not real). The only way was up, and Kenny was always going to look good. The only question was how good, and last season we looked excellent (the Fulham performance was as good as ive seen a Liverpool team play). This was before Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson.. entered the fray.

It doesnt matter what your methods are, its the signings that make or break you. Ferguson had the same methods from 2003-2006 (when they won nothing) as he had before and since. What killed him was his signings.. Djemba Djemba, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Louis Saha, David Bellion, Tim Howard (cost them vs FC Porto). Kennys methods have thus far been good (bar yesterday in playing 5 in defence and Kuyt upfront alone).. whats killed him is the personnel (his british signings). As the Guardian article stated, playing Andy Carroll in a pass and move team is akin to putting a heavy metal guitarist in the middle of a classical orchestra. The methods are irrelevant if the personnel dont fit/aren't good enough.

[devaney]

Money isn't the only factor as these figures prove:http://www.transferleague.co.uk/

Take a look at Man United and especially Arsenal and yes I know that Arsenal haven't won anything for a few years but then again neither have we!

[metalhead]

Progress overall since he took over... Yes
Progress this season? None at all after that outlay.

Agreed.

It must be remembered that Kenny took over Liverpool at a perfect time for him. We had our worst start for over half a century under a clown of a manager (a 6 month reign that should be dismissed as not real). The only way was up, and Kenny was always going to look good. The only question was how good, and last season we looked excellent (the Fulham performance was as good as ive seen a Liverpool team play). This was before Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson.. entered the fray.

It doesnt matter what your methods are, its the signings that make or break you. Ferguson had the same methods from 2003-2006 (when they won nothing) as he had before and since. What killed him was his signings.. Djemba Djemba, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Louis Saha, David Bellion, Tim Howard (cost them vs FC Porto). Kennys methods have thus far been good (bar yesterday in playing 5 in defence and Kuyt upfront alone).. whats killed him is the personnel (his british signings). As the Guardian article stated, playing Andy Carroll in a pass and move team is akin to putting a heavy metal guitarist in the middle of a classical orchestra. The methods are irrelevant if the personnel dont fit/aren't good enough.

Yeh but the Mancs kept him and look at them now.

[Kerry07]

Progress overall since he took over... Yes
Progress this season? None at all after that outlay.

Agreed.

It must be remembered that Kenny took over Liverpool at a perfect time for him. We had our worst start for over half a century under a clown of a manager (a 6 month reign that should be dismissed as not real). The only way was up, and Kenny was always going to look good. The only question was how good, and last season we looked excellent (the Fulham performance was as good as ive seen a Liverpool team play). This was before Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson.. entered the fray.

It doesnt matter what your methods are, its the signings that make or break you. Ferguson had the same methods from 2003-2006 (when they won nothing) as he had before and since. What killed him was his signings.. Djemba Djemba, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Louis Saha, David Bellion, Tim Howard (cost them vs FC Porto). Kennys methods have thus far been good (bar yesterday in playing 5 in defence and Kuyt upfront alone).. whats killed him is the personnel (his british signings). As the Guardian article stated, playing Andy Carroll in a pass and move team is akin to putting a heavy metal guitarist in the middle of a classical orchestra. The methods are irrelevant if the personnel dont fit/aren't good enough.

Yeh but the Mancs kept him and look at them now.

No one is saying not to do likewise with Kenny (i havent seen anyone even hint at it)... however the reason the Mancs kept him (Ferguson) is because he got his next batch of signings right. I recall phone ins inundated with calls for Ferguson to go, "hes past it"... "lost the plot" etc etc... those calls ended as his next signings were spot on (Van Der Sar, Evra, Vidic, Tevez).

Its imperative that Kenny gets the next signings right (if hes allowed), as his job is over if not. Its the old adage.. signings make or break you.

Some dont even get a second crack to get it right... Houllier messed up once (summer 2002.. Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou) and that cost him.

[only me]

Just watching Swansea and love their philiosophy on the game. Every manager just carries on the tradition. First Martinez, the Sousa and now Rodgers. Everybody at the club knows the way they play and stick to it no matter who the opposition is.

I often struggle to know what our style of play is. As I've said before if we're wanting to play quick pass and move football then half the players we've brought don't fit this philosophy.

Stole the words out of my mouth. 
What a totally charming team is swansea ,2nd time i've watched them this season and they are just so enjoyable. They commit so many bodies forward ,yes at the expense of being exposed ,play so positively, everyone working so hard and they play close and commited to eachother.

Shamefully i don't recognize any of their players but good for them ,excellent squad the manager built their.

[kartiek]

Progress overall since he took over... Yes
Progress this season? None at all after that outlay.

Agreed.

It must be remembered that Kenny took over Liverpool at a perfect time for him. We had our worst start for over half a century under a clown of a manager (a 6 month reign that should be dismissed as not real). The only way was up, and Kenny was always going to look good. The only question was how good, and last season we looked excellent (the Fulham performance was as good as ive seen a Liverpool team play). This was before Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson.. entered the fray.

It doesnt matter what your methods are, its the signings that make or break you. Ferguson had the same methods from 2003-2006 (when they won nothing) as he had before and since. What killed him was his signings.. Djemba Djemba, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Louis Saha, David Bellion, Tim Howard (cost them vs FC Porto). Kennys methods have thus far been good (bar yesterday in playing 5 in defence and Kuyt upfront alone).. whats killed him is the personnel (his british signings). As the Guardian article stated, playing Andy Carroll in a pass and move team is akin to putting a heavy metal guitarist in the middle of a classical orchestra. The methods are irrelevant if the personnel dont fit/aren't good enough.

I think the idea of personnel to fit a philosophy of play is correct. But I do think that Andy Carroll is no heavy metal guitarist. How can you miss the fact that his first touch is so poor, ball control is so poor, aren't there some basic parameters that you minimally require a footballer to have before they are worth 35 mil pounds?

I think there's much more to blaming it on the personnel. Why? Consider Arsenal - who did they buy? Benayoun, Arteta, and Gervinho. None of those guys are exactly much much better than Downing or Charlie Adam or Henderson. What about Chelsea? Aging squad, we should have felt we could overthrow them this season, and they are struggling. Who did they buy? Torres, done nothing, Mata, not exactly working any wonders, Meireles, ok.

I think that teams have spent a lot (us and chelsea) or not spent much (arsenal) and us three have bought players of more or less similar quality. I'm sorry to say but I don't think we're using the personnel at our disposal in the best possible way. We're consistently making the same errors and not able to try and mend our ways. That means there's more to it than just our personnel.  I'm also worried about Maxi, I don't know why he's not getting a game or even bench time, is there something funny going on there?

[Kerry07]

Progress overall since he took over... Yes
Progress this season? None at all after that outlay.

Agreed.

It must be remembered that Kenny took over Liverpool at a perfect time for him. We had our worst start for over half a century under a clown of a manager (a 6 month reign that should be dismissed as not real). The only way was up, and Kenny was always going to look good. The only question was how good, and last season we looked excellent (the Fulham performance was as good as ive seen a Liverpool team play). This was before Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson.. entered the fray.

It doesnt matter what your methods are, its the signings that make or break you. Ferguson had the same methods from 2003-2006 (when they won nothing) as he had before and since. What killed him was his signings.. Djemba Djemba, Alan Smith, Kleberson, Louis Saha, David Bellion, Tim Howard (cost them vs FC Porto). Kennys methods have thus far been good (bar yesterday in playing 5 in defence and Kuyt upfront alone).. whats killed him is the personnel (his british signings). As the Guardian article stated, playing Andy Carroll in a pass and move team is akin to putting a heavy metal guitarist in the middle of a classical orchestra. The methods are irrelevant if the personnel dont fit/aren't good enough.

I think the idea of personnel to fit a philosophy of play is correct. But I do think that Andy Carroll is no heavy metal guitarist. How can you miss the fact that his first touch is so poor, ball control is so poor, aren't there some basic parameters that you minimally require a footballer to have before they are worth 35 mil pounds?

I think there's much more to blaming it on the personnel. Why? Consider Arsenal - who did they buy? Benayoun, Arteta, and Gervinho. None of those guys are exactly much much better than Downing or Charlie Adam or Henderson. What about Chelsea? Aging squad, we should have felt we could overthrow them this season, and they are struggling. Who did they buy? Torres, done nothing, Mata, not exactly working any wonders, Meireles, ok.

I think that teams have spent a lot (us and chelsea) or not spent much (arsenal) and us three have bought players of more or less similar quality. I'm sorry to say but I don't think we're using the personnel at our disposal in the best possible way. We're consistently making the same errors and not able to try and mend our ways. That means there's more to it than just our personnel.  I'm also worried about Maxi, I don't know why he's not getting a game or even bench time, is there something funny going on there?

No, the point is hes a fish out of water (as a heavy metal guitarist in the middle of a classical orchestra). As regards his poor touch, even Stevie Wonder can see that.

On the subject of the effect of personnel, you've just contradicted yourself by naming two teams (Arsenal, Chelsea) who have signed poor personnel, and are struggling. Neither are even close to contending.

[kartiek]

Kerry, there's no doubt that the points table shows that they are struggling. But they've still managed to score twice as many goals as us, with similar players at hand! That has to account for something.

[Kerry07]

Both teams new signings have been terrible, and the reason they have both scored more than us is A.Van Persie is in the form of his life, B.Chelsea still have Lampard (11 goals), Sturridge (10 goals). The new personnel of both teams have been poor which is why neither are contending, same as why we cant buy a goal.

[SupitsJonF]

If we kept Meireles and signed Mata instead of Chelsea, I think we would be in a different position than we are now.  Not that much higher, but they can supply what we need.

But back to the original topic, why we played a 5ish at the back at home, against a team we know would defend, is very Rafa-esque you could say 

[devaney]

If we kept Meireles and signed Mata instead of Chelsea, I think we would be in a different position than we are now.  Not that much higher, but they can supply what we need.

But back to the original topic, why we played a 5ish at the back at home, against a team we know would defend, is very Rafa-esque you could say 

I really think it was three at the back and two wing backs that constantly came forward. At times in the first half until I got frustrated with our inability to get players into the box I thought we looked ok. When Carroll came on we actually looked more of a threat. Trouble with Kenny is when something isn't working he is far too slow to change it.With greater modern day Premiership experience I'm sure that will change. Let's face it we have had 7 draws at Anfield and most of those we should have won. Tactics and downright bad luck have played a huge part. Just look where we would be if we had won 4 of the 7 drawn games! WE ARE JUST NOT THAT FAR AWAY!

[Thommo's perm]

If we kept Meireles and signed Mata instead of Chelsea, I think we would be in a different position than we are now.  Not that much higher, but they can supply what we need.

But back to the original topic, why we played a 5ish at the back at home, against a team we know would defend, is very Rafa-esque you could say 

I really think it was three at the back and two wing backs that constantly came forward. At times in the first half until I got frustrated with our inability to get players into the box I thought we looked ok. When Carroll came on we actually looked more of a threat. Trouble with Kenny is when something isn't working he is far too slow to change it.With greater modern day Premiership experience I'm sure that will change. Let's face it we have had 7 draws at Anfield and most of those we should have won. Tactics and downright bad luck have played a huge part. Just look where we would be if we had won 4 of the 7 drawn games! WE ARE JUST NOT THAT FAR AWAY!

We are unbeaten at home
Other teams would be over the moon with that

[jacdaniel]

The most frustrating thing so far is our inability to get players into the box!  That seems to be the major difference between this season and the 2nd half of last season.  Im not sure whether this is a tactic or just the players not doing their jobs.  Whatever the reason, we need to commit more men forward when we're attacking or we wont be scoring many goals.

[Raoul]

I'm sick of reading that we played defensively because we had 5 defenders on the pitch. Johnson and Enrique spent the game attacking, and I couldn't believe how often Skrtel appeared on the edge of the Stoke box. I don't believe we didn't win because we played 5 at the back. I think there were two problems:

One was changing the formation (I don't think the formation was the problem per se, but asking the team to change the way they played, along with who he picked, meant greater risk), though as we've successfully used it in the past you could forgive him for starting that way. Perhaps he saw it as a good chance to blood Coates some more - certainly three at the back against Crouch was easing Coates in!

The main problem though was surely tactical and selection. Kuyt makes these great runs, but so often that meant that we were playing with no-one up front, as Kuyt unselfishly ran around for the team, leaving no-one up front - Gerrard, Downing, Henderson and Adam needed to be getting into the box far, far, far more often. Yes, he should have played Maxi instead of Downing, yes, I think Carroll should have started alongside/instead of Kuyt, but surely all of the midfielders on the pitch are naturally attacking rather than defensive midfielders, so why weren't they getting in there? Surely it was tactics, unless it is something in the coaching, or are they all just stupid footballers?

[worcester_red]

You can only play with a lone striker if that striker is good and neither Carrol or Kuyt are good, in fact quite the opposite! It is therefore tactically naive to play with only one striker and you would think any manager would realise that and play at least 2 strikers.

So far I'm far from impressed with Kenny this season, a lot of weird decisions being made and he absolutely has to nail his next signing otherwise he'll be sacked in the summer I think. Who knows maybe we'll get Rafa back.