Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

Surely you don't REALLY believe we paid 20m for Henderson do you ace?  IMO Adam is HIGHLY rated by Kenny and I fully expect him and Lucas to be our starting midfielders along with a third in a more advanced role, (Stevie, Aqua and Raul can all fill that hole).  Kuyt/Henderson to be the right side Downing/Suarez left with Andy up top.  We're going to be playing different styles but for the most part I think it'll be 4-3-3.

Why wouldnt I REALLY believe that ? Heres the thing, if we pay 15 with 5mill in add ons it doesnt really mean its a 15mill signing.. similarly if they owed us 10mill and we pay 10mill, it doesnt make him a 10mill signing..

Wikipedia has it as a 16mill deal, but the more credible websites such as the BBC and Telegraph..etc have it as 20.. All comes down to which reports you want to believe I guess.. Regardless, even if he was a 16-18-20mill signing, it doesn't change from the fact that a player who cost that much should surely be good enough to walk straight into our starting 11 regardless of how old they are (and 21 is not that young).
Instead of bringing in a 7mill leftback we could have gone for a 15mill one, similarly for CB, LW and backup FW, which are all much more important and urgent positions that need to be addressed..

On the Charlie Adam signing, I have no doubt that Kenny rates him highly. I also think he'll start in a middle 3 more often than not ahead of Meireles, Aqua AND Henderson...

I dont agree with it though.. I think Meireles is the much better player and should be started ahead of the rest. That somewhat makes the Adam signing moot imo since we do have enough cover had Meireles been considered good enough to start by the management..

Its all about opinions, and if we all sit here and hail every signing simply because we think Kenny can do no wrong then theres little sense in posting at all..

Regarding the formation... I think it'll be more of a 4-2-3-1 with Carroll reduced to a bench role in many occasions to accommodate Kuyt/Gerrard/LW against the stronger sides...

[Kenny Kan]

I dont agree with it though.. I think Meireles is the much better player and should be started ahead of the rest. That somewhat makes the Adam signing moot imo since we do have enough cover had Meireles been considered good enough to start by the management..

I think Meireles is good but I don't see why signing Adam is a moot point. They're two different players (granted I haven't seen a great deal of Adam) but from what I've seen Adam tends to sit deeper while Meireles marauds higher up the pitch.

As good as Meireles is, his passing and tackling traits aren't his best ones, in fact his passing can be very poor. His best trait is making space for himself in the final third and running into some great positions to pick out a shot/goal from. He has a good engine (I think) and is one of those midfielders who certainly has an eye for goal. But he also has a tendency to blow hot and cold (like all footballers), and when he's cold he's freezing, unable to make an impact or even struggle to get into the game to have an impact.

I think the signing of Adam or at least kenny's idea on it; is the fact we've been quite poor with our possession and build up play from the back, how many times last season did we see Carra flog the ball aimlessly upfield to no-one? Lucas too, isn't great with the ball - 'keeping it simple' seems to be his motto. Throw Adam in there and you've now got a guy with more vision and a sweet left foot to use, it's becoming a bit of a cliche, but he's more Alonso-esq or in that mould anyway. Hopefully Adam will pick the ball up from players like Carra and Lucas and start pinging and building up our play from deep inside our midfield. Meireles doesn't/can't do this he plays 10-15 yards further up. With Gerrard, Henderson, Kuyt, Suarez, Carroll and possibly another LM we've got enough options on the attacking front.

I also see Kenny using Adam to bring Carroll into the game-plan more, this is my only concern, the consistent longish-hollywood ball trying to pick out Carroll more often than not - I wouldn't like to see us become reliant on such a direct route of football. But it gives us more options and may get much more out of our 35M pound striker, Meireles doesn't really give us this option.

[aCe']

Im getting absolutely sick of this argument of Meireles not being able to play deeper than he did last season... If anyone has seen him play for Porto or Portugal they'd know that he ALWAYS played in the deeper Alonso role... Only in Liverpool has he ever been deployed in a more attacking role and that again was largely due to our deficiencies in those positions and the fact that he was effective... He's an excellent passer of the ball and dictates the tempo of play really well.. When played alongside someone who is good defensively (Lucas for us) he can really go out there and dictate/control a game from the middle which is why he is one of the most important players for Portugal... Gets more touches, starts more attacks and completes more passes than anyone in their side... Was the same with Porto..

He was never given the chance to play his natural position with us..

Check this video out it might give you an idea of what I'm talking about:

Meireles' position for Portugal

[Kenny Kan]

Fair enough.

The other thing that vid showed was that he can't tackle to save his life, he's a bit like Scholes in that department. Maybe he isn't solid enough to play in front of the back four. I don't know, we'll have to wait and see.

[Scottbot]

Hard to say for sure until all transfer business is done but it does look like we'll probably switch it about from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 depending on the oppo, game, score etc. I still think we'll play some 4-4-2 at home to some of the smaller sides with our full-backs really pushing on and little Luis given license to roam.

Well one things for sure, Kenny has now got options galore in the centre-mid area which isn't such a bad thing. It's good to be able to radically change your centre-midfield in game when things aren't going your way because more often than not, that is where the game is won and lost. I think that how Kenny wants to set up in centre-mid will dictate the rest of the side so it's important to look at our bugeoning number of centre-middies.

Stevie G - Clearly the only guaranteed starter of the bunch when he's fit. If we're playing a flat midfield four he wil be one of the two. If we're playing as three he can play as the most advanced (behind the front-man) or as one of two more advanced players. I suspect we'll see him play in all three roles depending on the opposition. I still maintain he can be an EXCELLENT option on the right flank at times and think he's been criminally underused in this position after having such an amazing season in 2005-06 at this spot.

Lucas - I think Kenny really likes him and he seems to like to play with a holding player who can (when asked) offer something going forward. I suspect he would be first choice (at the moment) to partner Gerrard if we were playing as a middie-four. he'll fight for his place and get plenty of games this season.

Adam - The fact that Mereilles had a pretty decent season last year and yet the club pursued Adam for so long tells you everything you need to know. He'll be expected to come in and play as a starter for most of the season. It appears he would be best suited to play as one of a three (with Gerrard and a more defensive player) but we may also see him playing on the left side of a diamond as has been suggested and it wouldn't surprise to see him play as an out an out left midfielder if Kenny wants to go for something more compact and bullish.

Henderson - I suspect he will be first choice to play right side when we go 4-4-2 (Kuyt does not play this role so well as part of a flat 4). He'll also be expected to push Lucas and Adam for the other spot when Kenny opts for 3 in the middle. My father in law is Sunderland to the bone and he rates Henderson VERY highly so it's going to be interesting to see what sort of a player we have got on our hands.

Spearing - Obviously Kenny likes him (I think he sees a bit of Jimmy Case/Sammy Lee in him albeit they were wide players), he trusted him in some big games last season and the little dynamo didn't let anyone down. Of all the players he is one who will be particularly gutted the club didn't qualify for Europe given the sheer competition for places now. I think most fans are expecting him to be the odd one(s) out in the centre-mid conundrum and they're probably right but I wouldn't write him off just yet. I suspect he is an injury or two away from the starting line-up but he is the sort of player who would be hard to get out of the team so long as it's winning.

Shelvey - Lots of talk about him going on loan for a season but I think Kenny really likes him and would have used the lad more often had he not been injured for much of the 2nd part of the year. Kenny also seems to like his versatility, he sent him on at CM, LB, FWD and RM in games last season. I think he'll play games for the reserves, play games from the bench and be given the opportunity to stake a claim in the League Cup.

Mereilles - I think Charlie Adam has split opinion among so many reds because of what it may mean for Raul. Clever player, good passer, good movement and hard worker who scored some excellent goals last season. However, it seems like Kenny sees Adam as a more robust version of Mereilles and as a result he will be out the door as he is very sellable particularly given his modest salary (can't believe I just wrote modest!). Wouldn't surprise me to see him sold on the last day of the transfer window.

Aquilani - Has his fans among the reds and I also believe he has a lot of ability. Technically excellent, good passer, two good feet and clever. Unfortunately he's a slow player who is scared shi....t...less of making a tackle and for that reason he will be back in Italy on loan for another season I should imagine. Doesn't have a hope of being involved at LFC this season and I worry he could even end up running his contract with various loan deals at other clubs in the mould of Bruno Cheyrou.

Poulsen - Out the door. The club will get what they can for him just to get the lad off the wage bill. I notice Hodgson hasn't been beating the door down to get him back at West Brom.

In wide areas: It looks like a new left mid will be coming in with downing seemingly the most likely option. Henderson i think would be mre likely to play wide right in a 4-4-2 with Kuyt doing the job in a 4-3-3. Maxi is also an option and i don't think Kenny will completely ignore a player who scored a hatful at the end of last season.

If the season was to start tomorrow and everybody was fit I suspect Kenny would go with a line-up that looked like this:


                               Reina

Flanagan       Carragher       Skrtel       Johnson


                              Lucas

                  Gerrard             Adam


   Kuyt                                             Suarez

                             Carroll


If we played tomorrow and went 4-4-2 I suspect Kenny would go with a very compact set-up. Obviously Downing (or whoever new comes in) would likely be in ahead of Adam on the left.

                               Reina

Flanagan       Carragher       Skrtel       Johnson


Henderson        Lucas        Gerrard        Adam


                     Suarez
                                     Carroll

[Kenny Kan]

I would honestly like us to sign another central midfielder - a defensive one and sell either Lucas or Spearing. We're pretty weak there, even with ALL the CM we've got.

But it ain't gonna happen, Lucas shielding the back four gives me the jitters.

[ethanr]

Kenny Kan, if we are looking at a 4-3-3, which at this point would be my preferred lineup, than I obviously agree, but mostly just because Gerrard and Adam are better.

I'd prefer a 4-3-3 that looked something along the lines of:

Reina

Johnson  Carra  Dann/Cahill  Cissokho (for some reason I think we'll sign him)

Gerrard   Adam   Downing

Kuyt  Carroll  Suarez

Or:

Hendo  Gerrard  Adam

Suarez  Carroll Mata/Cazorla/Downing





Would prefer

Gerrard  Adam  Downing

Suarez  Carroll  Mata/Cazorla

[Kenny Kan]

Yeah, I don't think we'll have a set formation under Kenny and that includes during matches. We may start say a 4-4-2 but during a match I can see Kenny changing to 4-3-3 or 3-5-2.

[Rimetto_]

4-2-3-1  (based on players we have now and assuming Adam passes his medical)

            Reina
Kelly  Carra Agger  Johnson

          Lucas    Adam
Kuyt         Gerrard       Suarez
               
                Caroll 

If we do end up signing the likes of Mata, Downing or Lennon etc its gonna become really difficult to predict who'll be dropped etc.
I can see a lot of big name players on the bench providing a lot of competition.

this would be my line up and as you've said the only change i could see would be Downing/Lennon or whichever winger we get replacing Kuyt

[Greavesie]

anyone want to try this now

is Dirk a squad player now? 

[aCe']

With Downing close to signing, its starting to seem more and more likely that some of our new signings and some of our key players will have to make do with a bench role in many occasions next season...

I know many have speculated that Kenny will pick different formations against different sides but I find that concept questionable to say the least. We need consistency and players and partnerships adjusting to a particular style of play... Tweaking the setup to deal with the aerial threat of Stoke or the attacking threat of Chelsea might work as a one off, but I dont expect to see a different setup every other game...

That said, the addition of Downing leaves the starting roles of the likes of Kuyt, Meireles, Adam, and even Carroll in jeopardy.

If we decide to go for a 4-4-2, then Kenny will most probably have to rely on Henderson and Downing as the wide players, with Gerrard and Lucas forming the CM partnership.. Bench: Adam, Meireles, Kuyt

If we decide on a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1, We'll most probably see a CM trio of Gerrard, Lucas and (Adam/Meireles/Henderson), with the attacking three being Downing, Suarez and (Kuyt/Carroll).. Bench: Meireles, Henderson, Carroll

We'd also have the likes of Joe Cole, Maxi Rodriguez, and Alberto Aquilani being further down the pecking order...

Personally, I think Downing will start almost all of our games, not because he's that good a player, but simply because of our embarrassing lack of width throughout the side. And while lack of width isnt always a ad thing, when you pair it with lack of pace, lack of dribbling and lack of flair, its a recipe for disaster...

[Greavesie]

Carling Cup will be a piece of p!ss anyway

[Raoul]

I expect that like last season we'll see a few formations played, but usually 433, 451 or 442. If so, I'd hope this is how we'd line up with those 3 formations right now:

433:

                            Reina

Johnson     Carragher/??        Agger/??       ??

                             Lucas
      Gerrard                   Adam/Mereiles/Aquilani

           Kuyt           Carroll           Suarez

(I guess Downing could play wide left and Suarez in place of Kuyt)

451:

                            Reina

Johnson     Carragher/??        Agger/??       ??

                         Lucas
Kuyt         Gerrard    Adam/Mereiles/Aquilani      Downing

                       Suarez

(Downing and no Carroll...)

442:

                                         Reina

Johnson         Carragher/??               Agger/??                     ??

Henderson/Kuyt     Gerrard                    Lucas                    Downing

                                              Suarez
                                   Carroll       

(Not sure this midfield combination makes the most of our resources...)

Only space for Spearing is as backup for Lucas (in an ideal world we'd buy another defensive medfielder) and Shelvey needs to be out on loan. I'd keep Aquilani and Mereiles so that we'd finally have quality on the bench, but we could afford to sell one.

In the end, I still have no idea...!

[crim cram]

I voted other on the formation because I don't think we'll have one formation next season.  There will be times we will employ a straight 4-4-2:

                  Reina

Kelly      Carra      Agger      Johnson

Gerrard    Lucas    Adam    Downing

           Saurez           Carroll

4-3-3

                  Reina

Kelly      Carra      Agger      Johnson

Gerrard        Lucas            Adam

Kuyt           Carroll          Saurez

4-1-3-1-1

                    Reina

Kelly      Carra      Agger      Johnson

                     Lucas
                   
Mereiles/Kuyt   Adam          Downing

             Gerrard/Suarez
                              Carroll

Etc.......
Plug in Henderson wide right on in the center(attacking) Spearing for Lucas, etc.. the fact is for the first time in along time, we have options going forward.  I expect Kuyt to be platooned w/the striking partnership and played wide right when needed.  Kenny showed last season a desire to change the formation as needed and even said the formation isn't as important as mentality and style of play(pass n' move).
We are going to put out a side that can put the opposition under pressure for 90 minutes.  Where they line up will be less of a factor than under Rafa where the formation and movement was very rigid and structured.  Players like Suarez, Kuyt, Gerrard, Adam, Johnson, and Henderson (and it looks like Coady ) can be quite fluid and interchangeable when it comes to formation.  Should be a fun ride for 2011/2012

[woof woof !]

Given the state of our defence, Glen Johnson OR an apprentice at RB, past their prime CB's and NO automatic 1st choice Left Back plus what seems like dozens of midfielders I don't know how anyone can realistically forcast our formation for the forthcoming season. Maybe Kenny's trying to confuse the opposition, he's certainly confused me.