Liverpool FC Forum

[LFC2007]

BM- I think there's a lot of sens in what you say.

I also think it goes a bit deeper than over R------n

Seems to me that the weight of expectation is a massive factor. There seems to be FAR too much talk about winning the title before a ball is kicked in anger among the players as well as the press (Liverpool spent £ x million blah blah title blah)

I also believe that Benitez has not cracked the "winning mentality " when it comes to his players ..is that partly down to the "R" word ...? Possibly.

One thing is for sure Ferguson and Mourinho (even Wenger) have won the title mainly down to the right MENTALITY as well as the players they have.

Benitez never seems to be able to quite get us up for a fight against the other big guns and when was the last time we came from behind to get a draw or even win against them..? I can't rememebr ..and that says it all in term of ability AND IMHO as well as self belief.

Winning is a state of mind as well- we simply don't have it CONSISTENTLY yet and we need to learn it FAST..best way would be 4 wins out of 4 over Xmas. You have to get into the habit of winning to really believe in yourself and your team.

mate we were back in the winning habit until another ludicrous team selection agaisnt reading

No more 'ludicrous' than the 'team selection' against Newcastle.

[kalos]

Quote "The worst culprit for me is Gerrard, who as soon as we go a goal down seems to be so determined to inspire yet another fightback that he deserts his midfield role leaving his midfield partner struggling and starts playing Hollywood passes and desperate charges forward. This is probably due to his lack of faith in our other forward players (excluding Torres)."

So you are suggesting that the lack of belief (faith as you put it) is down to not having quality players throughout the team.?

Its an interesting take on it..

So it could be a combination of

1) the system (rotation)

2) the better players (unless you believe this is solely a Gerrard problem) not having confidence in their teammates

3) I still say the Manager is vital at instilling the winning mentlaity/belief/ whatever you want to call it. In any business/sport it is the coach/Managers job - it's what he is paid to do-

has Rafa got this right so far?

[maguskwt]

BM- I think there's a lot of sens in what you say.

I also think it goes a bit deeper than over R------n

Seems to me that the weight of expectation is a massive factor. There seems to be FAR too much talk about winning the title before a ball is kicked in anger among the players as well as the press (Liverpool spent £ x million blah blah title blah)

I also believe that Benitez has not cracked the "winning mentality " when it comes to his players ..is that partly down to the "R" word ...? Possibly.

One thing is for sure Ferguson and Mourinho (even Wenger) have won the title mainly down to the right MENTALITY as well as the players they have.

Benitez never seems to be able to quite get us up for a fight against the other big guns and when was the last time we came from behind to get a draw or even win against them..? I can't rememebr ..and that says it all in term of ability AND IMHO as well as self belief.

Winning is a state of mind as well- we simply don't have it CONSISTENTLY yet and we need to learn it FAST..best way would be 4 wins out of 4 over Xmas. You have to get into the habit of winning to really believe in yourself and your team.

mate we were back in the winning habit until another ludicrous team selection agaisnt reading

No more 'ludicrous' than the 'team selection' against Newcastle.

correct... and why was there no mention about the Newcastle game? because we WON... and comfortably at that...

this attitude of looking at nothing but just blaming the manager for what it's worth because we lost (so that means that the manager is )... is ridiculous...

"heyyyyy i've just got the licence to criticise the manager cause we lost! I gotta log into the forum quick and let those other losers know that they're wrong..."

by all means criticise... but do it logically...

[Emerald Red]

BM- I think there's a lot of sens in what you say.

I also think it goes a bit deeper than over R------n

Seems to me that the weight of expectation is a massive factor. There seems to be FAR too much talk about winning the title before a ball is kicked in anger among the players as well as the press (Liverpool spent £ x million blah blah title blah)

I also believe that Benitez has not cracked the "winning mentality " when it comes to his players ..is that partly down to the "R" word ...? Possibly.

One thing is for sure Ferguson and Mourinho (even Wenger) have won the title mainly down to the right MENTALITY as well as the players they have.

Benitez never seems to be able to quite get us up for a fight against the other big guns and when was the last time we came from behind to get a draw or even win against them..? I can't rememebr ..and that says it all in term of ability AND IMHO as well as self belief.

Winning is a state of mind as well- we simply don't have it CONSISTENTLY yet and we need to learn it FAST..best way would be 4 wins out of 4 over Xmas. You have to get into the habit of winning to really believe in yourself and your team.

mate we were back in the winning habit until another ludicrous team selection agaisnt reading

No more 'ludicrous' than the 'team selection' against Newcastle.

correct... and why was there no mention about the Newcastle game? because we WON... and comfortably at that...

this attitude of looking at nothing but just blaming the manager for what it's worth because we lost (so that means that the manager is )... is ridiculous...

"heyyyyy i've just got the licence to criticise the manager cause we lost! I gotta log into the forum quick and let those other losers know that they're wrong..."

by all means criticise... but do it logically...

It wasn't so much the team Rafa picked in that game against Reading, more the system. Crouch, Voronin and Sissoko should all never be named in a first XI ever IMO, especially when two of those are employed as makeshift wingers. The logic behind this baffles me. But I'm just a armchair pundit, and Rafa's the man in charge, so what do I know? But hey - we lost 3-1 anyway. Simple fact is, and ironic and contradictive as it may sound, the system may even not have been at fault, rather than simply as I said, the players were not good enough to fill their respective roles playing it. Crouch is far too gangly and doesn't have enough pace for a striker to be deployed wide in any position nevermind as a winger. Maybe if we had two quick second strikers, say Bellamy or Garcia, then this formation might have been better put to use. I can see where the manager was going with it, but I think he overestimated his players abilities a little when he decided to try it. We do not have the attacking prowess of Barcelona, Rafa! We'd need a Messi and a Silva to make a system like that work effectively.

For what it's worth, and in defense of our manager, I just think he doesn't have, or hasn't been allowed to have, the proper pieces on the board to play his particular game of Chess that no doubt he is a master of. Perhaps his tactics are just too astute for the players he has available to him. We need world class players for a world class manager. Time for these f*ckhead Yanks to stick their hands in their pockets and let the man offload some of the flotsam (Sissoko, Riise, Carson etc) in order for him to have a team that Rafa wants! If any of you honestly believe that this is the team Rafa wanted in the summer, then you're sorely mistaken. Personally, this talk of we shouldn't have to spend 100's of millions because we're Liverpool is bollox! The fact that we are Liverpool should mean that we SHOULD be able to spend without being questioned. Real Madrid do it, Barca do it, Chelsea do it, and the Mancs do it. Time we f*cking did it too!

[Snowman]

IMO there are a couple of things we all feel uncomfortable about.

1) Rotation

2) Lack of a couple key players.

3) Lack of never say die attitude in some games when we go a goal down.

The problem I have is that the teams we are trying to overtake have problems with lack of key players i.e. Manure look at there bench would a liverpool team consider Felcher, Brown or O'shea but Fergie seems to get the bes out of these players.

Similarly Wenger loses his best striker and everyone down to the pundits are saying that this wont be the year but there they are at the top of the league.

That indicates to me that we have got something wrong we have at least as strong a side as the and Manure so you cant use that as an excuse.

The dont give up until the final whistle has gone and especially The have an aggresive must win attitude that sometimes boils over.

So whats the problem, rotation dosent let players settle it also doesnt make them feel part of the first team cause we dont have a first team we have a squad of players that come together on occasion some of them more often than others. Fergie and Wenger have there first team choices and they stick to it and you have to work very hard to get into the team and to stay there. Liverpool has a squad that is rotated on a regular basis therefore the players dont know if they will be in or out for this match or that.

Please Rafa stop rotating and sort out the players heads even if we need to bring someone in and stop moaning about the quality of the squad they are as good as all the top three they just need to start believing they are.

[The_Rock]

I think in the 4 years rafa has been here....i can deduce that it is better if we are fighting for 1 or at the most 2 trophies.

The more trophies we are fighting for and the more bewildering rafa's rotation will be..... 

2005 - League cup finalist
          5th in the league (a pi$$ poor league performance)
          Champions league champs

2006 - FA Cup winners
          Lost early in the league cup
          Lost in the 2nd round of Champions league in Feb 2006
          3rd in the league (record premierleague points tally)

2007 - Lost early in the FA cup
          Lost in the quarter in the league cup (?....can't remember)
          Finalists of champions league (we should have won that game....why or why..didn't he start with bellamy and crouch....we could have crushed milan 5-0)
          3rd in the league. Average league season

So its like....if rafa doesn't have too many destractions..he seems to do well. So i say...to H@ll with the league cup. Let us judge rafa on how he does in the FA cup and champions league (either one....or even both if we are lucky).....