Am i being a little over dramatic... - Or has something got to give?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby 5 stars » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:05 pm

Redman in wales wrote:But either Barton or nolan would be excellent replacements for hamann. Zendon is not LFC quality. at all. he was barely good enough for boro.

hamann is the guy in the middle we are really missing. alonso's passing is off at the moment, hamann would just step up to the plate, and hold the team together. but i would rather an off alonso to zenden, so the choices are abit limited at the moment.

The problem with Alonso/Sissoko is that they need each other to be effective. Alonso has a range of passing, excellent vision to start attacks, and he can control the tempo of the match.

What Sissoko lacks is passing, and he is not very tactically aware of his teammates around him, this in turn makes this choice when he passing very limited. But Sissoko gives us a physical presence in midfield, he has massive engine on him.  You have the ability to stop attacks before they happen, even though he is a defensive midfielder he plays further up the pitch, usually in front of Alonso. 

This is exactly what Alonso doesn’t off us, he needs a player like Sissoko to do all the dirty work for him.  As soon as Sissoko wins the ball back it gets feed to Alonso.  If Sissoko isn't playing well and isn't stopping attacks before they happen, in turn winning the ball back frequently, it's a problem because Alonso relies on Sissoko winning the ball back and feeding it to him.

Sissoko lacks variation of passing like Alonso. He always will play the simple ball to the closest team-mate, that is why it doesn't matter how good he is playing, if Alonso is having a bad game. 

The difference is with Hamman he can come on and sit in front of the back four, allowing the attacking players to make runs into the box with out exposing the back four.  A good example would have to be Istanbul.
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:07 pm

It seems as though this is the team that Rafa sees as the strongest in the long term. Starting from the Aston Villa game it’s time to give this 11 a run of consecutive games and really work hard on building some cohesion and getting the tactics spot on. I would like them to start every Premiership and European game for next month or so and see them become a proper team.

                     Reina

Finnan   Carragher   Agger   Aurelio

Gerrard    Alonso    Sissoko  Gonzalez

               Kuyt     Bellamy
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Postby 5 stars » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:12 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:It seems as though this is the team that Rafa sees as the strongest in the long term. Starting from the Aston Villa game it’s time to give this 11 a run of consecutive games and really work hard on building some cohesion and getting the tactics spot on. I would like them to start every Premiership and European game for next month or so and see them become a proper team.

                     Reina

Finnan   Carragher   Agger   Aurelio

Gerrard    Alonso    Sissoko  Gonzalez

               Kuyt     Bellamy

Aurelio over Risse???
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:13 pm

5 stars wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:It seems as though this is the team that Rafa sees as the strongest in the long term. Starting from the Aston Villa game it’s time to give this 11 a run of consecutive games and really work hard on building some cohesion and getting the tactics spot on. I would like them to start every Premiership and European game for next month or so and see them become a proper team.

                     Reina

Finnan   Carragher   Agger   Aurelio

Gerrard    Alonso    Sissoko  Gonzalez

               Kuyt     Bellamy

Aurelio over Risse???

Yes
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:14 pm

5 stars wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:It seems as though this is the team that Rafa sees as the strongest in the long term. Starting from the Aston Villa game it’s time to give this 11 a run of consecutive games and really work hard on building some cohesion and getting the tactics spot on. I would like them to start every Premiership and European game for next month or so and see them become a proper team.

                     Reina

Finnan   Carragher   Agger   Aurelio

Gerrard    Alonso    Sissoko  Gonzalez

               Kuyt     Bellamy

Aurelio over Risse???

But I really dont know who Risse is.
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Postby Redman in wales » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:16 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:It seems as though this is the team that Rafa sees as the strongest in the long term. Starting from the Aston Villa game it’s time to give this 11 a run of consecutive games and really work hard on building some cohesion and getting the tactics spot on. I would like them to start every Premiership and European game for next month or so and see them become a proper team.

                     Reina

Finnan   Carragher   Agger   Aurelio

Gerrard    Alonso    Sissoko  Gonzalez

               Kuyt     Bellamy

As i said in a post in another thread. - i have to disagree with belamy-kuyt partnership. getting a regular partnership is important imo, but crouch has scored more goals this season than those two put together. Surely he has to start. What more can a player do??

Top Scorers:
                      LG FA LC EU OTH TOT
Peter Crouch    1   0   0   4   1     6
Craig Bellamy    1   0   0   1   0     2
Dirk Kuyt          2   0   0   0   0     2

Plus I dont think we've seen enough of Aurelio as a solid defender for both him and gonzo on the left. Aurelio so far has been weak at the back. If Aurelio plays at LB, Riise has to play LW as cover..

---

whats certain is that everyone has their own opinion about their first choice starting 11....

... but i think everyone is agreed in the notion to stick with the same starting 11 (baring injury) for as many consequtive games as possible.
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Postby Pedro O'Maradona » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:21 pm

today we were spineless and heartless out there, mick is right, the body language is all wrong....There has been no consistency all season, we have been clueless, I watched the arsenal game afterwards and look at the way they played and wengers attitude is go out and play the way football should be played....and it works! we are too bogged down in tactics and trying to figure out what is the best way to play oppontents rather than having a gameplan/way of playing and imposing our game on teams rather than the other way around, quality players well coached win matches, liverpool are looking like ordinary players badly coached out there.......That was a very average utd team out there, and they were made look good....Also i dont think its just midfield that is the problem, defensively we looked niaive, we seem to be in the horrors at the back this season and you cant blame Reina on his own for that... as for the midfield Gerrard hasnt played well this year and im not surprised about these rumours, he doesnt look the player that we know he is. Alonso in my opinion is not the player he was before he got injured... some1 made the point his strength is his passing and if he isnt passing well (no-one is at the moment ) he isnt adding anything to the team. it seems Rafa is trying to accomodate Gerrard, Alonso and Sissoko and this has been to the detriment of the forwards. Up front what do you expect when you play kuyt up front on his own. I hate to say it but i think Rafa has not managed well this year, from a coaching aspect we cant seem to string passes together, and these players are paid professionals who should be able to do that, so it has to be something deeper.....I hope it is not a case that he has lost the dressing room but todays spineless performance certainly indicated to me that that may be the case. the tactics have not worked this year, the rotation policy hasnt worked this year, the players brought in this year (bar Kuyt) have all underacheived, confidence is gone and I think it may be the case that Rafa has lost the players......maybe in cynical and hurting after that match but surely we deserve better than what we got today, I was embarrased by how little heart was shown out there, do the players know what Liverpool Football club means to the supporters and the city of Liverpool anymore?
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Postby HOMER » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:25 pm

reina - dodgy and can't catch the ball -  but spanish so he stays in the team! carson good player deserves a chance.

finnan - lost confidece, benitez has tried to replace him - barraghan, kromkamp both :censored:

carra - carra

hyypia - good in the air, no pace. agger good replacment

riise - good shot! warnock - very average

gonzales - fast - deserves a chance. zenden, kewell.......... say no more!

alonso, sissoko - same line same players. both defensive midfielders, make a 6 man defence why, why, why play them both together mr benitez?

gerrard - ferguson, wenger and maureen want him for their central midfield!! we'll play him on the wing coz benitez is a genious !
:(

kuyt - never seen him with the ball?

garcia - lets keep him on for 90 min coz he can scare the opposition into thinking they have 12 men - and they would be right:D
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Postby 5 stars » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:48 pm

Cool Hand Luke wrote:But I really dont know who Risse is.

WFT was I thinking.... :glare:
Last edited by 5 stars on Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 82-1158166602 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:29 pm

dawson99 wrote:On paper we have the best

hahaha.

Thats the most absurd comment I've read all year.
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:32 pm

hahaha.

Thats the most absurd comment I've read all year.


More absurd than "Roy Keane = Football Manager?"
china syndrome 80512640 reactor meltdown fusion element
no uniquely indefinable one 5918 identification unknown 113
source transmission 421 general panic hysteria 02 outbreak
foreign mutation 001505 maximum code destruction nuclear
reflection 01044 power plutonium helix atomic energy wave
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Postby 66-1112520797 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:37 pm

I havent downloaded the game yet so I havent watched, but tbh I didnt expect anything out of this game. The way we have been playing of late we're struggle to beat Watford. At the moment, it has to be said this is A VERY POOR Liverpool side.
I said a few days back, that this could be our FIRST REAL transitional period under Rafa, and its proving just that. With the amount of players brought in for starters. And now the rotation debacle, I think its here to stay so now the players have got to get use to this new system brought in too.
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Postby Scottbot » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:54 pm

Thehobo wrote:alonso cant tackle so isnt a holding role mid, and cant make dynamic off the ball runs as good centre mids need to

you simply don't know what your talking about lad. Alonso can't tackle? He made the 2nd most tackles in the whole league last year.
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Postby Scottbot » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:22 pm

Am I being a little over-dramatic?

I think you probably are Mick. I can remember you posting a similar thread last season after the League Cup defeat to Crystal Palace. I think you had been to the game and were very concerned about the body language of the players (particularly the Captain) on that occasion also.

I actually thought we played quite well today up untill the goal. I didn't have too many complaints about the team Rafa put out. Bearing in mind our recent form i wasn't surprised to see Rafa play with one up, gonzalez had some good moments on the break, Kuyt was the right man to play as the lone striker and the team looked comfortable for the first 40 minutes. The problem for this team at the moment is CONFIDENCE and you always felt that we had to score first to get a result today. Quite a few on here are suggesting there was no heart, no fight and no bottle out there today. I didn't see that. what i saw after the first goal was a lack of confidence (it simply drained from thwe whole team), a lot of frustration, a lot of stray/weak passes, a lack of belief and a lack of conviction.

I know it's only the 1st round of the League cup but this Wednesday's game against Reading is an important one for me and i would like to see a full strength squad out for this one.
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Postby johnnyc » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:41 pm

peewee wrote:mate i think they need a 'clear the air' session where the players can get their feelings out to rafa.

its obvious to me that the players are not happy, i already said in the match thread that i have never seen such a spiritless performance, no skill, no clue, no passion. the performance and attitude tody was a disgrace.

so whats causing that attitude?

i think the players are not happy with the constant defending that we seem to have to do, we never seem to have the other team on the back foot, we hoof it back upfield to them and then it starts over again, defending.

we seem to lack any invention, in my opinion the players are not happy with the tactics and that is showing. how much power do the players have? i think rafa is starting to show the stubborness that undid houllier, the first thing that needs to happen is for rafa to admit he is getting it wrong, change his rotation policy and change his match tactics, but i fear he wont do this and it may get worse before it gets better.

yeah mate, they need a good clear the air session, let gerrard and carra loose with their tongues, not to the other players, but to rafa

hi,never seen players drop thier heads like today. stevie g seems to be feed up having to play out of posotion all the time. rafa needs to sort things out
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