Liverpool FC Forum

[Thehobo]

keep dreaming son

alonso is one of the reasons we aint moving forward

he hasnt improved since he got here?

we need gerrard in centre mid, and sissoko in the holding role.

[ConnO'var]

So where are we now? Are we still just unlucky when we play away, is rotation really working?, is it just a tough fixture list that's finding us out? or is there a deeper problem within the ranks?

On the back of a display which was just about as disappointing as any I can remember as a Liverpool fan and with the rumour drums hinting at problems with the captain rumbling in the distance, are we about to reach a tipping point in the direction of the club?

Clearly all is not well with Gerrard, and such is his influence over the team as a whole the effect is a tame acceptance of defeat by our biggest rivals and enemy. That's the bit that irks. It's not the tame way we conceded the goals, nor is the ole's as the Mancs took the p!ss, not even is it that we felt the need to once again re-visit the 4-5-1 to prove conclusively (surely once and for all this time) that it doesn't work for us. No, what it is that really sticks in the craw is the lack of fight, the acceptance that it isn't our day, the willingness to allow the game to drift into the inevitable slow-death of defeat.

I'm a big believer in body language being significant. In those shrugs of the shoulders and sighs of exasperation with your teammates lies the clue to the mood in the ranks. When the players don't believe anymore in the mantra, when they become disillusioned with the tactics and beginn to ring each other on a night to talk about it, they used to call it "losing the dressing room".

Well whether or not the dressing room is lost is one thing, the fact that Gerrard is currently lost beyond help is entirely another. Who knows, it could be due to these cryptic and damaging rumours about his private life, or could it be that he is becoming disillusioned with the way he is being deployed? if it is the latter, then we basically have three choices the way I see it. We either have a chat with him and try and find some accomodation with his misgivings about the tactical approach we are employing (this will probably involve stopping the ridiculous rotations/formation changes and never playing him left hand side again). The other two options are obvious, either he goes or Rafa does.

If it was me I'd go with the first option. It comes to something when you hope the stories about the fellas missus are true as that's the least damaging option.

Is it just me, or have we got a problem here, and if we have what would you do?

Mick, for me the answer is simple..... Rafa has to go..... Whatever are  Stevie's issues with his missus (true or false) is his own private business..... this is the same guy who dragged us out of a 3-0 hammering in Istanbul and dragged us out of the jaws of defeat in last seasons FA cup final.... He's a proven commodity for LFC....

Rafa's tactics and persistance to play his "perceived" favourites worry me...... He's got us playing like a bunch of numpties..... It's gotten to a stage that every time we take the field, I get a bad feeling and start praying that we don't embarass ourselves again.....

LFC has never been a one player club.... If we are so dependant on Stevie, then we have a serious problem indeed.... either we do not have enuff quality in the side or our tactics are not working...... We have lost the aura of invincibility that we used to have 16 years ago.... teams no longer fear us and instead see us a "beatable" top four team... Once that is gone, it takes a hell of a lot to get it back.... The passion is simply not there and our guys don't have the swagger we used to have... as Peewee said in another thread.... We are LFC for christ sakes.... put out our best 11 and let the other gaffer worry how they'll play us and NOT the other way around!

Winning is a habit but unfortunately, so is losing..... It looks like we are starting to form the latter habit and that is NOT acceptable to me...

Rafa's losing the plot... he's tactics, man-management, handling off the media all point to one thing... a man who's under tremendous pressure who may have bitten off more than he can chew.... What he knows worked in the Primera Liga is not working in the Premiership and so far, he's not even looked like he has a back-up plan.... Worse, from the body language of the players out there, he may have already lost the dressing room as you yourself pointed out...

That, in my book, is why he should go.....

[HantsRed]

Sell Alonso? P!ss off!

Yes he is off form, so drop him if necessary. But we don't need to be selling our best players. And he isn't the only player who is off form right now!

Last season Alonso made more tackles than any other midfielder if you check the stats. His game isn't about athleticism, its about running the tempo of a game. In order to do that he needs playser making intelligent runs and working fluidly - and that isn't happening this season.

As they say form is temporary but class is permanent.

[The_Rock]

keep dreaming son

alonso is one of the reasons we aint moving forward

he hasnt improved since he got here?

we need gerrard in centre mid, and sissoko in the holding role.

Although i wouldn't describe alonso as static...i do agree with your Gerrard and Sissoko combo. I think Alonso has really been poor this season and he always gets picked for the starting 11 while crouch is rotated heavily  Its time for alonso to be on the bench.

If real madrid comes with a 15 million pounds offer for alonso...we might want to consider it.......

[5 stars]

i personally want xavi alonso sold

real madrid will pay 10 million for him, then get in a midfielder who isnt one dimensional (possibly nolan, possibly joey barton)

sissoko is good as a holding role type midfielder

alonso cant tackle so isnt a holding role mid, and cant make dynamic off the ball runs as good centre mids need to

if you watch alonso he barely moves all game. the lad was good when he first came over cause his passing was a breath of fresh air, but he hasnt improved since then and has become a very static one trick pony (and his trick is bad at the moment)

Are you joking?? You would sell for the 10 million and then go spend 10 million on joey barton or Kevin Nolan!!

Alonso is far from one dimensional.. the problems is the players around him, cos' he may be playing a more static type role but it is the moment of the players around him that is the problem.. not every player has to be making runs in the box so to speak... that my opinion..

Sissoko will a holding midfielde in a few years but right now he is raw, he doesn't have the discipline to sit in front of the back four...

Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard are our best midfielders we shouldn't sell and then take a gamble on another player... the grass is always greener on the other side, eh?

[The_Rock]

i personally want xavi alonso sold

real madrid will pay 10 million for him, then get in a midfielder who isnt one dimensional (possibly nolan, possibly joey barton)

sissoko is good as a holding role type midfielder

alonso cant tackle so isnt a holding role mid, and cant make dynamic off the ball runs as good centre mids need to

if you watch alonso he barely moves all game. the lad was good when he first came over cause his passing was a breath of fresh air, but he hasnt improved since then and has become a very static one trick pony (and his trick is bad at the moment)

Are you joking?? You would sell for the 10 million and then go spend 10 million on joey barton or Kevin Nolan!!

Alonso is far from one dimensional, and he is similar to Pirlo in that he is a withdraw playmaker... he has such a brillant range of passing, he would be the best passer of the ball at LFC.. the problems is the players around him, cos' he may be playing a more static type role but it is the moment of the players around him that is the problem.. not every player has to be making runs in the box so to speak... that my opinion..

After then you go on to say Sissoko is a good holding midfielder.. he will in the future but right now he is raw, he doesn't have the discipline to sit in front of the back four.. but he serves a purpose playing further up the field breaking up attacks before they happen...

Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard are our best midfielders we shouldn't sell and then take a gamble on another player... the grass is always greener on the other side, eh?

Actually i think joey barton would do a good job for us.  If he was available for 5 million or less, i say bid for him.

As for alonso, it really boils down to this. His game is so dependant on his passing. When his passing game fails, he does not really bring anything else to the team. So the question is can we really afford to carry alonso when he is not effective ?

[dawson99]

Everyone ahs already forgotten the Newcastle game where Alonso was just different class. Workmen cant blame their tools, the only one to blame is Rafa. He just needs to admit his mistakes and sort it out, we know he can

[Redman in wales]

i personally want xavi alonso sold

real madrid will pay 10 million for him, then get in a midfielder who isnt one dimensional (possibly nolan, possibly joey barton)

sissoko is good as a holding role type midfielder

alonso cant tackle so isnt a holding role mid, and cant make dynamic off the ball runs as good centre mids need to

if you watch alonso he barely moves all game. the lad was good when he first came over cause his passing was a breath of fresh air, but he hasnt improved since then and has become a very static one trick pony (and his trick is bad at the moment)

Are you joking?? You would sell for the 10 million and then go spend 10 million on joey barton or Kevin Nolan!!

Alonso is far from one dimensional, and he is similar to Pirlo in that he is a withdraw playmaker... he has such a brillant range of passing, he would be the best passer of the ball at LFC.. the problems is the players around him, cos' he may be playing a more static type role but it is the moment of the players around him that is the problem.. not every player has to be making runs in the box so to speak... that my opinion..

After then you go on to say Sissoko is a good holding midfielder.. he will in the future but right now he is raw, he doesn't have the discipline to sit in front of the back four.. but he serves a purpose playing further up the field breaking up attacks before they happen...

Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard are our best midfielders we shouldn't sell and then take a gamble on another player... the grass is always greener on the other side, eh?

Actually i think joey barton would do a good job for us.  If he was available for 5 million or less, i say bid for him.

As for alonso, it really boils down to this. His game is so dependant on his passing. When his passing game fails, he does not really bring anything else to the team. So the question is can we really afford to carry alonso when he is not effective ?

alonso should not be sold.

But either Barton or nolan would be excellent replacements for hamann. Zendon is not LFC quality. at all. he was barely good enough for boro.

hamann is the guy in the middle we are really missing. alonso's passing is off at the moment, hamann would just step up to the plate, and hold the team together. but i would rather an off alonso to zenden, so the choices are abit limited at the moment.

[5 stars]

[quote="The_Rock"]If he was available for 5 million or less, i say bid for him.
[quote]
The problem is the english talent is always  inflated.. look Carrick 18m,  A. Johnson 8.5m

[puroresu]

Alonso is very good.  If he was sold I would expect a top quality player to come in.  Not someone like Nolan or Barton.  Good they maybe but Liverpool class no way.  Arsenal picked up Rosicky for £7.5 mil.  now his World Class.  Thats how much Nolan or Barton would cost.

[red_guy]

I don't think selling alonso would solve anything but if sell zenden and get joey barton instead, then that would be great. Problems in the dressing room..? i hope not. About the long ball? i agree... should stop playing that , getting sick of that...we're not Bolton..and we used that sysyem against Bolton.....and of course we lose......selling alonso? bad idea.
Today's game? Awful. We were slow, passive, lacked fighting spirit. 4 losses and in those games we couldnt score at all..just concede. Frustrating.

[Redman in wales]

The problem is the english talent is always  inflated.. look Carrick 18m,  A. Johnson 8.5m

with the exception of carrick.... no, its not really, not anymore.

parker: £6.5mil - a good buy

say what you want about the blue-nosed johnson but he's scored 6 league goals so far this season: more than crouch (1), bellamy (1), kuyt (2) and fowler (1) put together

[dawson99]

Johnson plays a lot tho. Plus its the attacking play that is making the goals, not just the player.

We need to attack and play with each other so we know what each other are doing.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Sack Rafa?

Sell Gerrard?

Sell Alonso?

Bring in Barton?


I look forward to bumping this thread in March, we may not be top of the league or even in contention to win it, but we will be in the top 4 and going strong and people will soon be back on the bandwagon.

I wasn’t expecting us to challenge for the league this season but I wasn’t expecting us to be this far off the pace this early on. I know there excuses but trying to integrate new players while facing clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea, Bolton and Everton away from home is far from ideal. Gerrard is not the only player suffering from a post world cup hang over, just look at Rooney and Ronaldhino.

Now the internationals are over for a while and we’ve nearly qualified for the last 16 of the Champions League it will hopefully be easier for Rafa to build some cohesion in the team. Last season we only got going after losing to Crystal Palace in the league cup and I think we will start putting a run together soon.

Next season Rafa will have to think long and hard about how he is to manage this tricky first 2 months of the season because so far he has failed.

[PabloAimar]

johnson was a snip at £8.5m ...end of.

its not the personel thats the problem