Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

I like to get an overview about what you lot think about muslims, so no offence really, I'm bored of getting offended

[Number 9]

MH Im not critcising the book as a whole mate!
What i meant to emphasise more is that it was written a long time ago and things have changed since then.It was written when the world was a lot different.
What I am trying to say is that it is foolish that some people apply its every word to their lives in a literal sense.As you say it can be taken in many ways,my point is that its the people that are the problem and not the book.
Take you for example(a civil fella we have chatted on facebook).You have the sense to dismiss certain parts as OTT or not applicable to the day in age we are at.Yet you can take other parts and apply them to your life in a beneficial way!

Take the radical..he sticks to every word and has not got the sense to distinguish between a passage that may be full of metaphors and a passage that is written to be taken literally!

As I said(or tried to)Its individual people that are the problem not the religion!

lol, not saying you are criticising the book mate, just saying some people interpret it in different ways thats all

Agree with the Bold part, especially the last sentence.

Humanity start wars, and we use religion as an excuse for most of our problems.

MH are you a Muslim mate ?

Yes he is and a decent guy,feck sake Bam i thought you would have gathered MHs religion over the years!

I'm a fecking divvy sometimes. 

Yeah..but only SOMETIMES mate!

[Bam]

I like to get an overview about what you lot think about muslims, so no offence really, I'm bored of getting offended

You're fecking wonderful you are, if I were a woman I'd have you're babies you beatiful big hunk of a man. I love you're peaceful religon and would marry you over the net and be one of as many wives as you would like.          

[metalhead]

Bam's gone mad

[NANNY RED]

I like to get an overview about what you lot think about muslims, so no offence really, I'm bored of getting offended

You're fecking wonderful you are, if I were a woman I'd have you're babies you beatiful big hunk of a man. I love you're peaceful religon and would marry you over the net and be one of as many wives as you would like.          

I wish my husband would get himself another one id have a bit of a rest then

[Number 9]

My husbands a muslim an all

Thats why he's the boss!Put that cloak on and feck up Sandra!lol

On a serious note,what does mister Nan think about the extremists?I know he lives here obviously.But does he have any controversial views(to us) or has he become westernised?
Is he a real practicing Muslim or just Muslim by birth?
Really not taking the P,i just wanna know!
The only Muslim i know is metalhead and we have only chatted online,i know hes a decent fella.But saying that I cannot judge a whole people on one person,if ya get me!Does your hubby drink,smoke or gamble?
Probably not...you do enough of all three for the pair of ya!!  

[metalhead]

I drink, most muslims in the middle east drink!! my family, my friends(the muslim ones) all drink.

I don't practice Islam that much, i.e praying, but I do fast during the month of Ramadan and celebrate the eid and all (with a bottle of champaigne with my old man) 

[Number 9]

I drink, most muslims in the middle east drink!! my family, my friends(the muslim ones) all drink.

I don't practice Islam that much, i.e praying, but I do fast during the month of Ramadan and celebrate the eid and all (with a bottle of champaigne with my old man) 

No virgins for you young man!

[maypaxvobiscum]

good arguments guys. keep going. nice to see us debating about sensitive issues but not getting the thread locked.

[NANNY RED]

Metalheads chatted to my husband an all 

Hes not practicing no, he drinks, used to smoke , Married a catholic, the only thing he doesnt do is eat pork he did try it once i was eating a chop an he said that looks really nice give us a taste but he did like it, He was born a muslim , but has respect for all religions, He has never once in the 28 years that weve been married tried to influence me on any of his views , he respects my religious beliefs an me his , he says at the end of the day we all answer to the same god. what ever you want to call him.

As far as these extremists go . He would round them up or when there caught send them to a derelict island an bomb them. He blames the government for actualy letting the bas.tards in , he blames the government for letting them set up  muslim only schools an these teaching houses where they brainwash kids ,

An im the boss in my house he does what hes told.

[maypaxvobiscum]

Metalheads chatted to my husband an all 

Hes not practicing no, he drinks, used to smoke , Married a catholic, the only thing he doesnt do is eat pork he did try it once i was eating a chop an he said that looks really nice give us a taste but he did like it, He was born a muslim , but has respect for all religions, He has never once in the 28 years that weve been married tried to influence me on any of his views , he respects my religious beliefs an me his , he says at the end of the day we all answer to the same god. what ever you want to call him.

As far as these extremists go . He would round them up or when there caught send them to a derelict island an bomb them. He blames the government for actualy letting the bas.tards in , he blames the government for letting them set up  muslim only schools an these teaching houses where they brainwash kids ,

An im the boss in my house he does what hes told.

thats good cause most muslims in the asian region especially will expect and almost demand you to convert. that stinks. like, you marry someone because you want that person not because you want to marry into the religion.

[maypaxvobiscum]

name of the captured terrorist: Ajmal Amir Kasar
member of: Lashka-e-Taiba
age: 21

[Kharhaz]

Okay first of all. Im sorry to everyone who had to read the cack I wrote. I know it was daft, ive read the replies and the criticism and i cannot disagree with any of it. Ive read over and over again what I wrote, and I get as far as my "for every 1" then I cringe. I'll blame this on drink, I have a case, I also put ive read this thread from the beginning so theres my case for that I must have been drinking !

Secondly, I still stick to the reasons I put as to why all terrorists are being associated with muslims. Throughout the world countless acts of terrorism are being acted out by muslims. A movement to stop these kind of things happening amongst the extremists could be acted upon all muslims. A condemnation against such acts by all those of the same religion, to raise an argument for and against. A voice that all will listen to. Or am I right in my assumption that the ones who understand the religion for what it is really are scared of the repercussions if they do?

[maypaxvobiscum]

MUMBAI, India – 9:21 p.m. Wednesday, Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus __ Two young men walk casually through Mumbai's main railway station, a worn Victorian hulk bustling with late commuters heading home, scurrying past small food stands and juice bars and vendors selling newspapers. They enter near the taxi stand, where long lines of battered black and yellow cabs wait for fares. One wears khaki cargo pants and a blue T-shirt. A pair of small knapsacks are slung over a shoulder. He looks like a college kid.
They are, says a photographer who follows them on part of their grim journey, "backpackers with assault rifles."
The two — and other death squads working in pairs — are to wreak carnage in landmark after landmark across Mumbai over the next three days, creating panic in this normally unflappable city and killing more than 195 people.
----
Sebastian D'Souza hears the gunfire at Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus from his office across the street at the Mumbai Mirror tabloid.
He follows the sound through the sprawling station, slipping unseen through parked trains. When he first catches sight of the young men, he doesn't realize they are the gunmen. They look so innocent. Then he sees them shooting.
"They were firing from their hips. Very professional. Very cool," says D'Souza, the newspaper's photo editor. For more than 45 minutes he follows as they move from platform to platform shooting and throwing grenades. Often, D'Souza isn't even 30 feet away. The few police at the station are either dead, in hiding or had long fled.
There are billboards everywhere, signs of India's economic boom. At one point, he photographs them standing beneath a tea company sign. They appear to be having a calm conversation. "WAKE UP!" the billboard reads.
----
They were 10 gunmen, well-trained and armed with assault rifles and grenades, officials say. They had scouted their targets ahead of time. The knew the hallways and the basements. They even carried bags of almonds for energy. Police say they were Muslim extremists from Pakistan, and may be tied to India's long-running insurgency in the disputed, largely Muslim, Himalayan region of Kashmir.
They landed in an inflatable rubber boat not long after nightfall on a Mumbai beach, a semi-isolated stretch of sand and stone where fisherman bring in their boats during the daytime. From there, it was less than a 15-minutes walk to their major targets. The group fanned out across the city, hitting 10 spots in two hours. They chose some of the best-known landmarks, many popular with foreigners and the city's elite. Many of the attacks ended in minutes. But at two luxury hotels and a Jewish center they dug in, fending off hundreds of commandos for days.
----
About 9:30 p.m.
Nariman House, Mumbai headquarters of the ultra-Orthodox Chabad Lubavitch movement.
A gunshot startles the family of Rabbi Gavriel Noach Holtzberg and others inside the recently renovated five-story Jewish center on a bumpy, unpaved back road off a main street in Mumbai's trendy Colaba neighborhood. The pale yellow building, with its synagogue, kosher dining room and friendly rabbi, was a magnet for Israeli backpackers looking for a place to celebrate holidays while on vacation and an important religious center for Mumbai's small Jewish community.
Someone must be lighting firecrackers, thought Sandra Samuel, a maid at the center.
Then a gunman came up the stairs.
She and another employee duck into a room and hid in terror as explosions and gunshots rattle the building through the night.
"They destroyed everything, the lift, the dining room, everything," she says later.
At about the same time
Leopold Cafe and Bar
The place known as Leo's is one of the city's famous tourist restaurants, a joint crammed with glass-topped tables, old travel posters and lounging backpackers drinking cheap beer.
There are maybe 100 people inside when two gunmen appear in the entrances. One lobs in a grenade. Then they open fire.
"It was total chaos ... People didn't know what was going on. Some hit the floor, some ran out of the side entrance or tried to find a place to hide," says Farzad Jehani, who owns the restaurant with his brother.
The assault lasts, perhaps, two minutes. When it's over, at least four foreigners and three Indians are dead, though the brothers aren't sure because patrons quickly rush the casualties to hospitals in passing cars and taxis.
By then the gunmen have left, jogging through the streets and apparently moving on to one of India's most famous hotels just a few blocks away.
"They weren't aiming at anyone in particular. It was like they wanted to empty their magazines and do as much damage here as possible before heading to the Taj," Jehani says.
----
About 9:45 p.m.
Taj Mahal hotel
No one believes it's gunfire. Not at the Taj. Built more than a century ago by one of India's most powerful business families, the castle-like Taj Mahal is the crossroads of the city's elite. It has been the scene of countless society weddings, business meetings and expensive dates. It is an icon of Mumbai.
But it is gunfire that two men are spraying across the ornate lobby, with its gray marble floor and Persian carpets the size of small swimming pools.
Dalbir Bains, who runs a high-end Mumbai lingerie shop, is sitting down to a steak dinner by the pool with friends. They joke about hearing gunfire. Quickly, though, screams fill the hotel and her laughs turn to terror. She runs upstairs and huddles under a table in a restaurant with about 50 others, desperately trying to be quiet.
"The gun shots were following us," says Bains.
----
9:47 p.m.
Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus
The gunmen shoot toward a large glass-fronted restaurant.
They are "firing at people waiting for the train. Luggage was spread everywhere. The place was full of blood. There were lots of people lying there dead," says manager Fongen Fernandes.
Soon, though, everyone is dead or hiding. Except for corpses, the platforms are empty, d'Souza says.
The worst of the carnage appears to be in a waiting room for out-of-town trains. It was filled with dozens of bodies, many shot in the head. Overall, authorities say, 53 people are killed.
Eventually, the gunmen steal a truck and drive away. A little later, one is killed by police and another, the only gunmen taken alive, is captured. He is Pakistani.
At the station, authorities use wooden baggage carts to clear the corpses.
Says Fernandes: "They collected them away like sheep and goats."
----
About 10 p.m.
Oberoi Hotel
Joseph Joy Pulithara, a waiter, is working in the Chinese restaurant of this modern luxurious monolith when the gunfire starts, sending diners and staff scrambling. Pulithara is shot in the leg. A woman nearby him is shot in the head.
The gunmen run into another restaurant and fire unrelenting bursts at the diners and waiters, says Andreina Varagona, an American meditation teacher shot in the arm and leg. At least a dozen people fall to the floor dead, including one of Varagona's friends.
"There were bodies everywhere," Varagona says. "I felt like I was in a movie."
The attackers herd dozens of survivors into a stairwell. One demands to see their IDs, saying he was looking for Americans and Britons. Then he forces them upstairs, says Alex Chamberlain, a British guest.
Chamberlain and many others throughout the hotel dash out in the chaos.
Staff in one restaurant spirit at least 60 diners into a back kitchen and then hustle them to another room where they are served refreshments and then escorted outside, according to the hotel's chairman P.R.S. Oberoi.
Other guests barricade themselves in their rooms.
The gunmen are taking hostages.
----
10:35 p.m.
Gunmen briefly attack a police station. A few minutes later they open fire at a hospital, then ambush a police car, killing five officers and driving away. Soon after, a bomb explodes in a taxi in the suburban neighborhood of Vile Parle. About 15 minutes later, a bomb goes off in another taxi inside the city. One person is believed killed.
----
Thursday morning
The Oberoi
A banner hanging from a window carries a simple but wrenching plea: "Save Us."
Inside, hundreds are hiding in their rooms, or being held hostage.
The gunmen, armed with rifles and grenades, push Egyptian businessman Osama Embabi into a room where four or five people — guests from other Arab countries and hotel workers — are already being held.
"They shouted and warned us not to leave the room or we would be shot," he says.
Meanwhile, Lo Hoei Yen, a 28-year-old Singaporean lawyer, calls her husband, Michael, from her cell phone. She is being held captive, she tells him, and the gunmen threaten to kill her if Indian forces storm the hotel, Singapore media reports say.
After 9 a.m., Indian forces begin what will be a daylong operation to rescue the Oberoi hostages.
Lo's body is found on the 19th floor.
----
Thursday
Across the city, it seems the Indian police and military may never catch up. They are fighting gunmen in three locations, including two of the city's most famous landmarks, and hundreds of people are trapped. Fires burn occasionally in both hotels, and firefighters with water hoses and cherry pickers battle the blazes, but only when it's safe enough to approach the buildings. Gunshots and explosions have become the soundtrack of south Mumbai.
Residents have faced terrorism before, but this time it seems different.
"There is a limit a city can take," says Ayesha Dar, a 33-year-old homemaker.
----
10:45 a.m.
Nariman House
The Jewish center is silent, except for the wailing of a child.
Samuel, the maid, cracks open the door of her hiding place and sees a deserted staircase. She runs up one flight and finds the rabbi's 2-year-old son Moshe crying beside his parents and two Israeli guests who lay still on the floor. His pants are drenched with blood. She grabs the boy, bolts down the stairs and out of the building.
----
The soldiers who fought the gunman say they were tough, bitter opponents.
"It's obvious they were trained somewhere ... Not everyone can handle the AK series of weapons or throw grenades like that," an unidentified member of India's Marine Commando unit, his face wrapped in a black mask, tells reporters after his units stormed the hotels. The attackers were "very determined and remorseless."
----
Friday
About 7 a.m.
Nariman House
Black-clad commandos fan out on the rooftops of the evacuated buildings surrounding the Jewish center and begin laying down covering fire.
A helicopter drops toward the roof. One after another, masked commandos slither down a rope. The helicopter returns with more commandos, then a third time with equipment.
Slowly, the assault team descends an outside staircase and begins clearing the building.
A small explosion erupts from the house. A few seconds later, two gunshots, a pause, then two more. For hours, a similar pattern is repeated. Holes are blasted in the building as hundreds of gawkers cheer from nearby streets.
----
Friday morning
The Oberoi
Dozens of hostages clutching passports are rushed from the hotel into waiting cars, buses and ambulances.
At 3 p.m., the government announces it has killed the two gunmen inside and taken control of the building.
The pair had killed 32 people — 22 hotel guests and 10 workers — and wounded many more.
By evening, more than 100 former hostages have been escorted from the building.
----
5:39 p.m.
Nariman House
Indian commandos launch a rocket at one of the Jewish center's upper floors, shaking the neighborhood and blowing out windows in neighboring buildings.
----
6:15 p.m.
Nariman House
A small group of commandos appear in the street, raising their rifles in triumph. The crowd breaks through police barriers and floods the streets in celebration.
Inside the building, nine people lay dead, including the rabbi and his wife. According to Israeli media reports, some are wrapped in prayer shawls.
----
Overnight Friday
Taj Mahal
Fighting continues at the seaside hotel. Authorities say one, perhaps two, gunmen are still inside. Explosions and gunfire ring out intermittently, intensifying at dawn. Fire, once again, streams out through broken windows, lapping at the stone sides of the building. Clouds of black smoke rise high above the Arabian Sea. Outside, dozens of reporters crouch in the seaside plaza in front of the Taj, and sometimes a half-dozen TV reporters can be heard at once providing breathless commentaries about the situation. Few bother to take cover.
----
8:30 a.m. Saturday
Taj Mahal.
After so much destruction it ends quietly. There is no announcement of victory. One minute, there are explosions inside, and a few minutes later a man walks casually out into the plaza out front — a place where soldiers in body armor had been sprinting in fear — and waves for firefighters to come put out the remaining blazes.
The Taj Mahal siege is declared over, ending three days of terror. It has been 60 hours since the first pair of gunmen walked into the train station.
Outside, bits of burned debris fill the plaza. Strings of white bed sheets, tied together, hang from the windows, reminders of those who escaped. Almost a dozen buses are parked nearby, just a few feet from the Arabian Sea. They are filled with soldiers and commandos finally getting a break.
Hundreds of people push their way toward the buses, pressing flowers into their hands.

[NANNY RED]

He couldnt resist me Maxi I know what your saying though but it never even got mentioned. An if it would of been the case i would not have changed my religion not a chance , people should take you for what person an character you are not by your religion or the colour of your skin. All my family in Liverpool an there a big family an all found him sound