Liverpool FC Forum

[friendlyguy33]

I find it puzzling that everyone thinks Carroll is now showing his best form and will score goals next season yet apparently we need another goalscorer as well?

If we sign another goalscorer how many games is Carroll likely to play next season? Surely if we do need another striker it's as backup but if someone like De Jong comes in Carroll will not get much of a look in.

i find it puzzling that people think we have enough in 2 strikers god forbid one of them got injured.
as the post above says its about options and diversity.
if it were up to me id have 4 strikers,the 2 we have along with another quality clinical finisher and a youth player to create competition and the fact that we have 4 competitions to play in next season.

I'm not saying we shouldn't strengthen up front particularly if Kuyt leaves but my point was in terms of buying another top striker like De Jong when that would surely limit the number of chances Carroll would get next season. It looks like he could be a 10-15 goal man in the premiership for Liverpool in the future given his improvement since the New Year.

If we bring in a 'goalscorer' that presumably means we think he's not good enough to start week in week out which has been the impression Kenny has given all season about Carroll as he's never played more than three league games in a row. That doesn't mean I'm against purchasing striking backup for Carroll and Suarez.

[Kenny Kan]

As for tactics, I have to laugh at some claims that 'football has moved on' and 'Kenny's tactics are poor and dated'.  Kenny's forgotten more about football and tactics than any of us will know.  Tactics haven't been the problem, an annoying habit of not finishing teams off and a team still short of real quality to be challenging at the top of the league are the problems

I concur with pretty much the whole post but this part especially. People have no other stick to beat him with yet this is the obvious one, people and some of our "supporters" were going to use; I could see this coming a mile off and everyone has jumped onto this bandwagon which I find particularly annoying.

[killerp]

You just saved me about 3hrs worth of posting! Agree with all pretty much word for word. You have to ask yourself are we in a better position after Kenny has been in charge for a full season with almost total control & financial backing from the owners? We are 80 million pounds less in the coffers without much in return for that sum. Each year we do not get into the CL it seems the road back gets longer!

Have you forgotten that Comolli was the DoF, why are the signings all of a sudden just down to KD, I think you will find he was probably dismissed due to the poor performance of the signings which tells you he had a major decision in getting them.

I guess Kenny must have missed the email that said, "I'm signing Carroll for 35 million"  . Comolli was just an expendable middleman, there is no way he would make the final decision on who we sign & how much for.

Where the hell did this young & English policy come from that has cost us millions more than players from other parts of the world ? Comolli? don't think so, not if you look at his signings at Spurs. If your bosses did tell you to go buy young & English you will get ripped off no matter where you buy from.

[Octsky]

with all due respect, then what exactly was the role of Comolli as DoF?
if he is not responsible for signing players...if he is not responsible for identifying the players ...
he did he do in his office every day then?

[devaney]

As for tactics, I have to laugh at some claims that 'football has moved on' and 'Kenny's tactics are poor and dated'.  Kenny's forgotten more about football and tactics than any of us will know.  Tactics haven't been the problem, an annoying habit of not finishing teams off and a team still short of real quality to be challenging at the top of the league are the problems

I concur with pretty much the whole post but this part especially. People have no other stick to beat him with yet this is the obvious one, people and some of our "supporters" were going to use; I could see this coming a mile off and everyone has jumped onto this bandwagon which I find particularly annoying.

So you approve of the two banks of four playing very deep with Stevie G almost becoming an additional centre back because that is what it has looked like a lot of the time and for the first 60 minutes against Chelsea at Wembley. You approve that Kenny didn't start Carroll at Wembley. You approve of Kenny persisting with players that were/are struggling. You approve that Kenny almost ignored Maxi and Kuyt in the starting line up for most of the season. You approve of Kenny not using substitutes effectively. Give me a break of course it is tactics and Kenny has mad a lot of mistakes. I just hope he learns from them. Love Kenny but just in case you have forgotten he is human. He get's all the support in the world but that does not stop us being understandably critical.

[Roger Red Hat]

Should Dalglish leave?!  Crazy talk.

He's had 18 months.  Not long enough.  We play better football now than under Hodgson and the late Benitez era.  He's had to deal with dragging us out of a potential relegation scrap last season and built almost an entirely new side this season.  He's got senior players like Carragher, Kuyt and Gerrard who are definitely past their best (Carra) and getting there (Kuyt and Gerrard) respectively while trying to blood youngsters and mould multiple new signings from last summer into a team.  But if he hadn't done that he'd be getting blamed for not acting quickly enough and not getting rid of the deadwood soon enough.  He's had a goalkeeper who's had a pretty poor season by his standards but yet has a team with a pretty good defensive record owing to the partnership of Agger and Skrtel that he has allowed to develop.  He's had our best defensive midfielder (Lucas) sidelined for half a season.  Some of his signings have taken time to settle (Carroll, Henderson and Downing), but in the cases of Carroll and Henderson their form is improving all the time and they are still young and developing their game.

My one real disappointment is that Aqulani was allowed to go on loan when we started the season with Gerrard injured.  Spearing has started too many games and to me looks well out of his depth.  We really could have done with Aquilani at times this season.

As for tactics, I have to laugh at some claims that 'football has moved on' and 'Kenny's tactics are poor and dated'.  Kenny's forgotten more about football and tactics than any of us will know.  Tactics haven't been the problem, an annoying habit of not finishing teams off and a team still short of real quality to be challenging at the top of the league are the problems.

Oh yeah, and he got us to two cup finals, winning one of them.

Onward next season, I'm pretty optimistic.

Top post. 

[Kenny Kan]

As for tactics, I have to laugh at some claims that 'football has moved on' and 'Kenny's tactics are poor and dated'.  Kenny's forgotten more about football and tactics than any of us will know.  Tactics haven't been the problem, an annoying habit of not finishing teams off and a team still short of real quality to be challenging at the top of the league are the problems

I concur with pretty much the whole post but this part especially. People have no other stick to beat him with yet this is the obvious one, people and some of our "supporters" were going to use; I could see this coming a mile off and everyone has jumped onto this bandwagon which I find particularly annoying.

So you approve of the two banks of four playing very deep with Stevie G almost becoming an additional centre back because that is what it has looked like a lot of the time and for the first 60 minutes against Chelsea at Wembley. You approve that Kenny didn't start Carroll at Wembley. You approve of Kenny persisting with players that were/are struggling. You approve that Kenny almost ignored Maxi and Kuyt in the starting line up for most of the season. You approve of Kenny not using substitutes effectively. Give me a break of course it is tactics and Kenny has mad a lot of mistakes. I just hope he learns from them. Love Kenny but just in case you have forgotten he is human. He get's all the support in the world but that does not stop us being understandably critical.

wo wo wo, steady on, apart from your first sentence which is IMO debatle how does the rest of that post equate to him 'being out of the game for too long'?

[devaney]

Kenny Kan - All my comments relate to tactical decisions. I'm not necessarily subscribing to the view that he has lost his edge after being on the sidelines for so long but I also agree that it is something that simply cannot be ignored. 13 points out of a possible 39 prior to the Chelsea home match on Tuesday cannot simply be varnished over with bad luck stories. At times and take Fulham for example prior to the FA Cup final we were a downright disgrace. I have never booed the team off the field however poorly they played but I can certainly understand why so many supporters were annoyed and frustrated. Football is no longer a cheap sport to follow and going to an average of one game a week throughout the season is going to mop up a very high percentage of weekly net wages. And these supporters have to tolerate watching Downing week after week playing dreadful football. Yes tactics are important and I accept that I do not know the reason why Kenny does some of the things that he does.

[Kenny Kan]

       Kenny Kan - All my comments relate to tactical decisions. I'm not necessarily subscribing to the view that he has lost his edge after being on the sidelines for so long     

No worries, that was the point of my initial post - that Kenny gets blamed because he's been out of the game for too long. I don't see it like that. Yes he may have made tactical errors, subs etc but what manager doesn't in the modern age? Rafa used to be predictable and make changes around the 60th minute mark but that doesn't mean he used 'dinosaur' tactics. The exact same can be said with Kenny, the 'out of the game for too long' talk isn't credible, not unless someone on here knows how he runs the squad on a daily basis because there is absolutely no evidence what so ever on the pitch that Kenny's been out of the game for toooooooooo long.....

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Should Dalglish leave?!  Crazy talk.

He's had 18 months.  Not long enough.  We play better football now than under Hodgson and the late Benitez era.  He's had to deal with dragging us out of a potential relegation scrap last season and built almost an entirely new side this season.  He's got senior players like Carragher, Kuyt and Gerrard who are definitely past their best (Carra) and getting there (Kuyt and Gerrard) respectively while trying to blood youngsters and mould multiple new signings from last summer into a team.  But if he hadn't done that he'd be getting blamed for not acting quickly enough and not getting rid of the deadwood soon enough.  He's had a goalkeeper who's had a pretty poor season by his standards but yet has a team with a pretty good defensive record owing to the partnership of Agger and Skrtel that he has allowed to develop.  He's had our best defensive midfielder (Lucas) sidelined for half a season.  Some of his signings have taken time to settle (Carroll, Henderson and Downing), but in the cases of Carroll and Henderson their form is improving all the time and they are still young and developing their game.

My one real disappointment is that Aqulani was allowed to go on loan when we started the season with Gerrard injured.  Spearing has started too many games and to me looks well out of his depth.  We really could have done with Aquilani at times this season.

As for tactics, I have to laugh at some claims that 'football has moved on' and 'Kenny's tactics are poor and dated'.  Kenny's forgotten more about football and tactics than any of us will know.  Tactics haven't been the problem, an annoying habit of not finishing teams off and a team still short of real quality to be challenging at the top of the league are the problems.

Oh yeah, and he got us to two cup finals, winning one of them.

Onward next season, I'm pretty optimistic.

Top post. 

Seconded .

[friendlyguy33]

Kenny did some equally bizarre things towards the end of his first spell as manager

December 1990 Nicol, Gillespie, Hysen, Vension, Ablett, Burrows all in the same team against Arsenal at Highbury when we were six points clear at the top of the First Division going into that game.

Leaving Beardsley out for some games to nick a point here and there.

We shouldn't be surprised by some of his tactical decisions this season.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Kenny did some equally bizarre things towards the end of his first spell as manager

December 1990 Nicol, Gillespie, Hysen, Vension, Ablett, Burrows all in the same team against Arsenal at Highbury when we were six points clear at the top of the First Division going into that game.

Leaving Beardsley out for some games to nick a point here and there.

We shouldn't be surprised by some of his tactical decisions this season.

yeah he did do but all managers are the same, if you took a straw poll of the 92 clubs in the country you wont find one single group of fans that dont think that their manager makes some crazy decisions.
we as fans dont see the whole picture, we dont see who`s carrying a knock or who`s injured, we dont see who`s taking the pi$$ in training or who`s really working hard and deserves a start, we dont see who`s being bolshy behind the scene`s or causing trouble etc etc

[killerp]

with all due respect, then what exactly was the role of Comolli as DoF?
if he is not responsible for signing players...if he is not responsible for identifying the players ...
he did he do in his office every day then?

This is the way I see the process of signing players working:

1. The manager tells DOF what he needs, what position, attributes, English, Young etc...
2. DOF finds potential players based on requirements given to him by the Manager & makes short list of potential targets.
3. The top target is taken by another club or does not fancy a move here, so we move down the short list
4. DOF communicating with the Manager negotiates the price & contract details
5. Manager/Board - confirm the deal & sign off with the purchase price clearly visible next to the players name.
6. DOF signs player

[Kharhaz]

with all due respect, then what exactly was the role of Comolli as DoF?
if he is not responsible for signing players...if he is not responsible for identifying the players ...
he did he do in his office every day then?

This is the way I see the process of signing players working:

1. The manager tells DOF what he needs, what position, attributes, English, Young etc...
2. DOF finds potential players based on requirements given to him by the Manager & makes short list of potential targets.
3. The top target is taken by another club or does not fancy a move here, so we move down the short list
4. DOF communicating with the Manager negotiates the price & contract details
5. Manager/Board - confirm the deal & sign off with the purchase price clearly visible next to the players name.
6. DOF signs player

One of my old World Soccer magazines from 1994 has an interview with Bobby Robson. And when it came to signing players this is the routine he went through:

He would compile a list of players he wants then tell the board "ok, get me one of those".
On this list he had the likes of Shearer, Ronaldo etc. The board went out and got what he wanted, barring Shearer of course as Blackburn said he wasn't for sale.

The role of Director of Football is to get the players the manager wants, but get them at a good price.

[Reg]

Got to say if only 32% want KK fired after coming 9th then the guy has a pretty solid support base.

Game on Kenny lad,  Kenny 1, Lakes 0.