Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

So where are we now? Are we still just unlucky when we play away, is rotation really working?, is it just a tough fixture list that's finding us out? or is there a deeper problem within the ranks?

On the back of a display which was just about as disappointing as any I can remember as a Liverpool fan and with the rumour drums hinting at problems with the captain rumbling in the distance, are we about to reach a tipping point in the direction of the club?

Clearly all is not well with Gerrard, and such is his influence over the team as a whole the effect is a tame acceptance of defeat by our biggest rivals and enemy. That's the bit that irks. It's not the tame way we conceded the goals, nor is the ole's as the Mancs took the p!ss, not even is it that we felt the need to once again re-visit the 4-5-1 to prove conclusively (surely once and for all this time) that it doesn't work for us. No, what it is that really sticks in the craw is the lack of fight, the acceptance that it isn't our day, the willingness to allow the game to drift into the inevitable slow-death of defeat.

I'm a big believer in body language being significant. In those shrugs of the shoulders and sighs of exasperation with your teammates lies the clue to the mood in the ranks. When the players don't believe anymore in the mantra, when they become disillusioned with the tactics and beginn to ring each other on a night to talk about it, they used to call it "losing the dressing room".

Well whether or not the dressing room is lost is one thing, the fact that Gerrard is currently lost beyond help is entirely another. Who knows, it could be due to these cryptic and damaging rumours about his private life, or could it be that he is becoming disillusioned with the way he is being deployed? if it is the latter, then we basically have three choices the way I see it. We either have a chat with him and try and find some accomodation with his misgivings about the tactical approach we are employing (this will probably involve stopping the ridiculous rotations/formation changes and never playing him left hand side again). The other two options are obvious, either he goes or Rafa does.

If it was me I'd go with the first option. It comes to something when you hope the stories about the fellas missus are true as that's the least damaging option.

Is it just me, or have we got a problem here, and if we have what would you do?

[112-1077774096]

mate i think they need a 'clear the air' session where the players can get their feelings out to rafa.

its obvious to me that the players are not happy, i already said in the match thread that i have never seen such a spiritless performance, no skill, no clue, no passion. the performance and attitude tody was a disgrace.

so whats causing that attitude?

i think the players are not happy with the constant defending that we seem to have to do, we never seem to have the other team on the back foot, we hoof it back upfield to them and then it starts over again, defending.

we seem to lack any invention, in my opinion the players are not happy with the tactics and that is showing. how much power do the players have? i think rafa is starting to show the stubborness that undid houllier, the first thing that needs to happen is for rafa to admit he is getting it wrong, change his rotation policy and change his match tactics, but i fear he wont do this and it may get worse before it gets better.

yeah mate, they need a good clear the air session, let gerrard and carra loose with their tongues, not to the other players, but to rafa

[account deleted by request]

Somethings definitely wrong with the team Bigmick and has been since preseason ,or at least since the international players came back. Players that have shown in the past that they have heart and fighting qualities suddenly turning into pussies. Gerrard who tackled like a lion only a couple of years ago hardly interested. If the team cant raise their selves for games like this, is it any wonder that we lacked fight against teams like Bolton and Blackburn?

[JohnBull]

I was one of those MON supporters when Raffa was chosen but after looking at the man and studying his CV I really thought he was the right choice. I thought about the Valencia performances and dreamt we could follow that style.
Unfortunately what works routinely in La Liga doesn't work here - ROTATION !!
Players are not rocket scientists despite the respect given them. Most of todays are, bye and large, pretty thick and are best having one job and sticking to it. Tell them they're great and play them every week in the same position. If they're sick or really poor then bring in the reserve and give him a chance. Swop them around and they lose interest/confidence/loyalty.

Started getting worried over Raffa after Japan - stupid changes for stupid reasons - getting worried again.

[The_Rock]

Yes, Gerrard does look a little somewhat off. Rafa always seem to treat some players better than the rest (ie...morientes, garcia, reina). Even josemi had the support of rafa when he played sh1t.

On the other hand, we all know what happen to baros & cisse. I mean baros practically ran his socks off when he carried the attack on his own 2 seasons ago and he got no focking praise at all. Cisse scored quite a few goals but he always had to step off for morientes. Now Crouch seems to be the one who is black-listed this season.

Maybe this type of "bias-ness" on the part of rafa is hurting the team's morale...... I guess Gerrard and Carra would be the most affected by this....

This is just my opinion. I hope i am wrong. But it looks like something is wrong in the dressing room. It is not a simple fact of picking the strongest 11, even players like gerrard and carra play as if they don't give a sh1t.  I know some of u guys are gonna rip this post... (and i don't care), but i think rafa's treatment of some players is affecting more and more players.

[floppo]

Rafa definitely has his favourites I reckon, Alonso has been average at best this season yet he always plays. Crouchy is getting a raw deal, he should have started today.

Too many changes for every game, too many players being played out of position, can't see the need for it.

What's the point in having fresh players later in the season when you're out of the title race in October.

[Redman in wales]

all fair points so far... and imo most are probably true favourites, treatment of players etc

In my view it is that swear-word rotation that is killing us. not just in fluidity, but mentally as well.

unnecessary rotation of players - (i borrowed the next 2 sentances from my post in the match thread)

There is no passion because players think there's no reason for them to play well, because they might not play for the next 3 games.

Crouch is the perfect example. scores in 4 out of the  first 5 games he starts, comes off the bench and scores a couple. and he still starts on the bench. where is his passion gone... taken away by rotation. he can do everything right, score the winner in bordaux, and is then benched for a big game against utd.

rotation to keep players fit? - bollox. Remember when crouch first signed for us... couldn't score - he played 14 games in a row... YES 14 conecutive games. .... and he was ok at the end of the season wasn't he??

unnecessary rotation of positions -  gerrard most notibly, but garcia has also played on the left, on the right, and in the support striker role.

- excessive and unneccesary rotation is killing our pride, our spirit and our passion.

Rafa needs to shollow his pride for the good of merseyside and change his tactics. Managers like Gordon strachan, steve Mclaren (when at boro) and stuart Pearce have all had an interview after a bad game and said it was my fault. the buck stops with me - i've never heard that from rafa.

[Thehobo]

i personally want xavi alonso sold

real madrid will pay 10 million for him, then get in a midfielder who isnt one dimensional (possibly nolan, possibly joey barton)

sissoko is good as a holding role type midfielder

alonso cant tackle so isnt a holding role mid, and cant make dynamic off the ball runs as good centre mids need to

if you watch alonso he barely moves all game. the lad was good when he first came over cause his passing was a breath of fresh air, but he hasnt improved since then and has become a very static one trick pony (and his trick is bad at the moment)

[dawson99]

One of the problems is having 3 centre midfielders and playing all 3 all the time.

alonso is world class, no doubt about it, selling him is just silly talk. What we need to do if anything is rotate those 3. We need a basic spine which wont change, or a 1,2,2,2 as i like it. Stick with the same keeper, cbs cms and strikers. If Rafa has to feck around, so be it, but we need a basic shape staying the same.

We need to pass and move more, it is the anfield groove after all!!!

No more long balls, do u know how embaressing it is? Teams are outplaying us and we look bad playing bad. Id live with losing games if we were TRYING at least.

Stevie G has lost something. Whatever the rumours, no one is bigger than the club. if his head aint right, hes on the bench. simple as that.

all i want is players who want to play and win for the club. We have been an embarressment this season. Lets just attack, feck the consequences, just play some football. On paper we have the best, and it will show with some confidence, will and belief

[5 stars]

i think rafa is starting to show the stubborness that undid houllier, the first thing that needs to happen is for rafa to admit he is getting it wrong, change his rotation policy and change his match tactics, but i fear he wont do this and it may get worse before it gets better.

That makes sense, Houllier and Rafa share something comman...

Both were in the situation were they both started out playing defensive tatic's successfully, and tried and in Rafa trying to add speed and play more attacking football.. to please the fans, or shut the media up from saying that we are playing negetive football? All I know is that "negative" won us UEFA Cup, Champions League, 2x FA Cups, 1 x League Cups and 2x Super Cups.

Ged brought Cheyrou, Daio, Diouf, (don't forget Cisse) etc and Rafa with Gonzales, Pennant, Kuyt, Bellamy, Aurelio... Last season it was our defence that won us games, by keeping clean sheets.

It was always going to be hard for our defence this season, the fact that we are playing a more attacking brand of football and the fact that it was always going to be hard to replicate last season...

[khan01]

good

[parchpea]

Benitez seems more focused on the games we have coming rather than the one we are playing. Its as though hes already assumed where we can or cannot pick up points and sets his stall out on that prediction.

He is now right at the place where Houllier was with a whole bunch of squad players to rotate but not one is better than another. Thats why the performances remain a similar quality whoever he selects. In truth we have perhaps 3 players at tops that would break into Chelseas, Arsenals or Man Utds first 11. We just do not have enough. That said we should be playing better than we are.

I heard a radio pundit suggest that had it not been for 45 mins in Istanbul then Benitez would find himself in a very different position today. That second half will certainly stretch out his reign at Anfield and rightly so.

Rafa needs to takes a long hard look at his failing plans and have a radical rethink on how we approach the rest of the campaign. If he refuses to change then he will find himself more out of favour by the week and make life very difficult for himself.

By the way justed watched Arsenal at Reading. After watching us it was like switching from black and white to colour. Brilliant stuff.

[matrix]

excessive and unneccesary rotation is killing our pride, our spirit and our passion... 

tell me about it... rafa will never say its my fault thats not his style...he is very stubborn,  he said after the game liverpool controlled the first half until the goal     
then he blamed nobody for the first goal     
sorry rafa but...im confused... 

[Thehobo]

what is alonso world class at? long range passing (these days hes not even very good at that)

he is to static to play centre mid

but is tackling is to poor to be a holding mid.

i watched fabregas, who is running, making runs, one twos, hes all over the place...taking defenders with him, leaving space for others

alonso is to static

[dawson99]

ok, u know the word static!